Divine-Heavy Party - Need some advice...

[David Davidson]

I'm running a game online that will end up having a very caster-heavy party. It looks like two clerics, a spirit shaman, a paladin, and a scout. Other than the paladin, there's nothing that's really heavy-hitting in the melee department (even then the paladin fails due to lack of combat customization).

If the "rules of balance" holds true for 3.5, I should be able to manage fine - should I just cut back on the total number of encounters per day, so that the casters are over-taxed and thus let the party down? Should I fill the gabs that combat leaves with more skill/class specific quests? Religious mysteries, perhaps, or quests that require comprehension and delving into the lore of forgotten religious sects?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Drac]

As far as I can see there 1 of 2 things you can do. First of all you can ask 1 of your 2 cleric to multiclass as a fighter or some other tank class, or the scout could multiclass as barbarian. The only other thing you can do as DM is tell your guys that someone needs to make a new char thats a heavy hitter. You might also have a problem with the fact that you have no arcane casters in the group. Best to luck with what ever you decide to do.

[Kurocyn]

I've always been against the idea of the "stereotypical" party. Let the players play what they want.

As far as ideas, I'd vote for the religious mysteries. With just the 2 clerics and the paladin, you've got enough to justify the party being hired/funded/ordained by a church or religious sect.

-Kurocyn

[Chris P]

This group should work fine. The Scout handles the stealthy, trap and miscellaneous magic item stuff. The Spirit Shaman should provide some damage dealing since it has access to Druid spells. The clerics depending on their gods and build can provide enough melee support to the paladin. If they work well together you shouldn't have to adjust too many things.

[Cosmo]

Kurocyn wrote:

I've always been against the idea of the "stereotypical" party. Let the players play what they want.

As far as ideas, I'd vote for the religious mysteries. With just the 2 clerics and the paladin, you've got enough to justify the party being hired/funded/ordained by a church or religious sect.

-Kurocyn

QFT!

I think you should start out with a standard adventure plan, just as if they had a standard group, but add a slight religious dimension.

If you find yourself having to pull punches to keep them alive, then you should cater your story a bit to their party composition. Pit them against other casters and other (evil) divine opponents. However with two clerics and a paladin (all in plate), they should be able to stand up to the heaviest of hitters and give as good as they get.

[Rezdave]

David Davidson wrote:

should I ... cut back on the total number of encounters per day ... fill the gabs that combat leaves with more skill/class specific quests ... quests that require comprehension and delving into the lore of forgotten religious sects?

Always tailor your adventure selection to the preferences of your group, and their selection of Classes is one of the clearest manifestations of their interests. If they have a religious party them by all means give them religious adventures.

I disagree with the poster who suggested you ask a PC to multi-class and fill the gap. If they don't decide to do it on their own, then if you want the gap filled then you need to recruit another Player.

We're in a similar circumstance right now. The main Charisma/Diplomacy Player had to leave and the 4th level group has several "outdoorsy" types that don't do well in cities. Particularly problematic is the elven ranger with her dog and two wolves and her general inability to enter many urban environments.

The next story arc will certainly be "wilderness" oriented, but the Ranger has already expressed an interests in multi-classing a couple levels of Rogue to up her social skills. Gaining an archery Sneak Attack doesn't hurt either, so by Rgr4/Rog2 she really gains a lot without sacrificing much.

Alternately, I'm considering bringing in another Player, but with 6 already the table is a bit crowded, so I want to see how everything plays out. There are a couple other PCs who might take up the Charisma/Diplo/Gather Info mantle in the next extended Downtime.

Otherwise, I'll just offer them lots of wilderness adventures where they don't need to worry about such things. I suggest you do the same. Offer your party adventures that cater to their strengths and interests. After all, this is what the adventurers themselves would seek to pursue. There's no reason a group of sailors would normally seek adventure in the middle of the desert, so why would PCs pursue quests to which their skills are unsuited unless the DM forced them.

I once had a lot of fun with a 2-member party ... an Archer-Ranger and a Rogue. I put them up against the A-Series "Slaver" modules. There was no way they could take them on their own, so I adapted the adventures with the idea that the Army was moving to strike against the Slaver bases of operations, and the PCs were a team of "advanced scouts" sent in to stealthily reconnoiter the slaver's bases, eliminate a few key guards, acquire evidence, disarm traps and secure points-of-entry prior to the main assault.

Anyway, tailor the adventure to the party.

HTH,

Rez

[Stebehil]

I would let the players play whatever they want and adjust the adventures accordingly. If you use "ready" adventures, your group will be hindered without an arcane caster, but otherwise do quite well as they are five PCs.

This setup definitely calls for a religious tone to your story. The clerics and the paladin are a natural team, the spirit shaman is an "exchange student", and the scout an associated member added to have his skills at hand. Looks like your players are poised to rediscover the holy grail or something. Dungeons? Old church ruins looking for clues. Wilderness? Needing to find the old hermit knowing some obscure church lore. Intrigue? Nothing like a church hierarchy to engender some of the finest intrigues around. Full-scale battles? Holy Wars! Everything a campaign needs.

Stefan

[Cosmo]

Stebehil wrote:

... and the scout an associated member added to have his skills at hand.

...and if your players enjoy playing up the religious angle, you might point the Scout's player toward the Divine Seeker PrC from the Player's Guide to Faerun.

[Kurocyn]

Cosmo wrote:

QFT!

???

-Kurocyn

[Cosmo]

Kurocyn wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

QFT!

???

-Kurocyn

QFT

Quoted for truth.
As in... I agree
:)

[Rezdave]

Cosmo wrote:

...and if your players enjoy playing up the religious angle, you might point the Scout's player toward the Divine Seeker PrC from the Player's Guide to Faerun.

This can also happen on its own. I find that the more Priests/Templar/Clerics I have in a party the more the "secular" characters become interested in "getting religion".

However, I'd let it happen on its own. I've had non-divine PCs stay in their current class and still join a religious order. Wizards-for-Good and so forth. No divine abilities, no divine spells, just good, old-fashioned faith in a deity and commitment to a Religious Order.

Let's face it, lots of people go to church and take congregational leadership roles and join committees and are active in their religious community without becoming ordained, so if the PC wants a PrC then fine ... if not then fine.

Our current party has a well-role-played dragoon-inspired Ranger with a military background who worships several deities simultaneously (as most of the world does). He just got his spells last session, and came up with a list of which deity he was previously worshiping is now granting him each spell on his list.

He's still just a Ranger, though. Our Evoker is also "getting religion", but she too won't change classes; she just wants to "spread the faith" of the goddess of Good Fortune in her own, evocative way.

FWIW,

Rez

[midnight756]

David Davidson wrote:

I'm running a game online that will end up having a very caster-heavy party. It looks like two clerics, a spirit shaman, a paladin, and a scout. Other than the paladin, there's nothing that's really heavy-hitting in the melee department (even then the paladin fails due to lack of combat customization).

If the "rules of balance" holds true for 3.5, I should be able to manage fine - should I just cut back on the total number of encounters per day, so that the casters are over-taxed and thus let the party down? Should I fill the gabs that combat leaves with more skill/class specific quests? Religious mysteries, perhaps, or quests that require comprehension and delving into the lore of forgotten religious sects?

Any help would be appreciated.

I am here to solve your problem there are large amounts of things you can do.

1> Interduce a NPC a friendly compainion, A simple fighter with nothing fancy othere then a nice sword to hit things with. This could be done by having the party come accross the option of taking in the NPC.
(now i know having an npc is a pain online.)

2> you are right about the encouters/perday thing it is very hard managing spell casters that have no love of physical combat(ranged). i had the same problem in one of my campaigns. their is an intresting solution for that which one of my players broght to my attention i believe in unearthed arcana (MAGIC RECHARGE) instead of castings perday each slot has a recharge time before next use.

3>introduce wands and magic items that will aid the group in fighting. A wand of magic missle can save your life = ).

[Kurocyn]

Cosmo wrote:

Quoted for truth.

As in... I agree
:)

Ah. That's a new one on me. ^ ^;;

-Kurocyn

[Pete Apple]

David Davidson wrote:

I'm running a game online that will end up having a very caster-heavy party. It looks like two clerics, a spirit shaman, a paladin, and a scout. Other than the paladin, there's nothing that's really heavy-hitting in the melee department (even then the paladin fails due to lack of combat customization).

If the "rules of balance" holds true for 3.5, I should be able to manage fine - should I just cut back on the total number of encounters per day, so that the casters are over-taxed and thus let the party down? Should I fill the gabs that combat leaves with more skill/class specific quests? Religious mysteries, perhaps, or quests that require comprehension and delving into the lore of forgotten religious sects?

Any help would be appreciated.

I'm happy to help you with this. I'm running a campaign with 15th level characters that consist of:

Cleric of Sylvania (Radiant)
Paladin of Sylvania (Knight of the Chalice)
Cavalier (pledged to Sylvania)
Arcane Trickster

So, yes, there is a great deal of "religion" going on. So let me give you some of the things I've done over time in order to keep them busy.

Cults - There's a great mini from WotC of a red-robed cult guy. Buy about 10 of them.

Oposing religions - Whatever their god is probably has some enemies - evil priests and frothing followers.

Undead - Obviously plays to their strengths - create a nasty Lich mastermind - create some lower level servants who can act as minor bosses at lower levels. If you're using pre-gen adventures drop in clues to the evil overlord here and there to tie things together.

Plagues - These work well with the Cleric angle. They have to figure out what's causing it and then find the components to the cure, etc. Especially if they figure out that there's a sinister force behind the plague..

With each of these, you can easily build some skill and knowledge encounters (Watch Stargate:SG1 - Daniel Jackson under pressure.)

I *strongly* recommend against you doing any sort of NPC. You've got 5 players there, that's plenty. And the last thing you want is for your beefy NPC fighter to get the killing blow in battles. Takes the fun out of it for the players.

They've got plenty of people in plate mail for the front line and the clerics should do fine in battle. If you don't find that is the case then make sure the magic booty includes some good weapons, or better yet some sort of quest to recover some lost weapons of the faithful. And if nothing else they've certainly got plenty of healing!

Hope this helps!

[Donovan Vig]

clerics hold their own decently in a fight, with a scout and pally, you shouldn't have too much trouble. Unless of course they are terrible tacticians...in that case, I could think of a LOT of things that could go wrong...

[David Davidson]

Thank you all for you help! The situation solved itself, though, you'll be happy to know -

I recruited a wizard, a pally, and a fighter... we're even-steven now.

Still, though, it was nice to know that you all care. <3