In case anyone still cares HERE is the link for the new article on dispel magic and its editing for 4E.
The link is connected to the printer friendly version so no log-in required.
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As someone playing an abjurer for over 2 years, I can certainly attest to the time taken to resolve a targetted dispel, or an area dispel, when the enemy have multiple effects, of different spell level, and different caster level.
I'm curious about the math involved though; INT vs Will, seems to imply the success rate would be much less, do you think?
In 3.5, dispelling is based on caster level, so vs a caster of equal level, it's 50-50.
Whatever the save progression in 4E, it must progress faster than base ability score mods, by definition?
As someone playing an abjurer for over 2 years, I can certainly attest to the time taken to resolve a targetted dispel, or an area dispel, when the enemy have multiple effects, of different spell level, and different caster level.
I'm curious about the math involved though; INT vs Will, seems to imply the success rate would be much less, do you think?
In 3.5, dispelling is based on caster level, so vs a caster of equal level, it's 50-50.
Whatever the save progression in 4E, it must progress faster than base ability score mods, by definition?
Int vs Will means an Int attack vs the opponent's Will defense (as you've surmised). The thing you missed though, is that all bonuses scale at the same rate with level. An Int attack means Int bonus + 1/2 level. The opponents Will defense will be Wis or Cha bonus (take higher) + 1/2 level. And of course there will be various mods thrown in there ... maybe a feat that gives +1 for Int attacks or whatever. But thats the gist, as far as I'm aware.
Cheers! :)
I wouldn't go that far. I would say that I'm encouraged at the detail design the 4E team is going to on the spell. Now, how it works in play? That's the big question.
Yes, a key point here is how often do Zones/Conjurations come up, and how powerful are they? Hopefully they're common enough to make this spell worth a daily slot.
Cheers! :)
Mostly I worry that magic is becoming a lot less fun. I liked spells that had fuzzier definitions, where you could use them creatively. It seems like 4e is making everything magical too cut and dried. I liked that you could shut down rituals and magic items and stuff by dispelling it. The idea that it's all just immune, and that only summons and area effects are dispellable is just dry like crazy. It's like chess. I use X so you counter with Y. It seems like a lot of the flexibility and creativity that always made me love mages (and one of the strongest things D&D ever had going for it) may be getting diminished in this new version. That makes me a little sad.
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Int vs Will means an Int attack vs the opponent's Will defense (as you've surmised). The thing you missed though, is that all bonuses scale at the same rate with level. An Int attack means Int bonus + 1/2 level. The opponents Will defense will be Wis or Cha bonus (take higher) + 1/2 level. And of course there will be various mods thrown in there ... maybe a feat that gives +1 for Int attacks or whatever. But thats the gist, as far as I'm aware.
Cheers! :)
Ahhh, well that sounds much better.
I just remember (for my current 3.5 PC) my Will Save equalling my Int bonus at level 1, and it just shot ahead from there.Still I'd imagine that, even without the ubiquitous stat-boosting items, there will be far more powers boosting someone's Will save, than powering up their Int 'punch'. It's the nature of the beast that is D&D, or at least has been for the last 30 years.
In fact, I can easily forsee a point at which a wizard can't dispel his own effects (cue music to 'The Sorceror's Apprentice')
<Dum dum dubbity-dum, didum didubbity-dum>
Lol. I loved the Sorceror's Apprentice when I was a kid (I wish I could sign up for one!)
But remember, wands and staves, and probably other items, will now be used to give bonuses to Wizards attack rolls just like a Fighter's swords. So a Wizard with a +2 Wand will be getting +2 to all of the attack rolls of their spells, which would include Dispel Magic (presumably). As to how the balance of other things (like feats) works though, I have no clue.
Cheers! :)
Mostly I worry that magic is becoming a lot less fun. I liked spells that had fuzzier definitions, where you could use them creatively. It seems like 4e is making everything magical too cut and dried. I liked that you could shut down rituals and magic items and stuff by dispelling it. The idea that it's all just immune, and that only summons and area effects are dispellable is just dry like crazy. It's like chess. I use X so you counter with Y. It seems like a lot of the flexibility and creativity that always made me love mages (and one of the strongest things D&D ever had going for it) may be getting diminished in this new version. That makes me a little sad.
I wholeheartedly agree. There is a clinical and buttoned down tone to the rules I have seen. They may be the best rules ever, but they are soulless to me.
I like them intellectually, but there is no joy in them.
Still I'd imagine that, even without the ubiquitous stat-boosting items, there will be far more powers boosting someone's Will save, than powering up their Int 'punch'. It's the nature of the beast that is D&D, or at least has been for the last 30 years.
In fact, I can easily forsee a point at which a wizard can't dispel his own effects (cue music to 'The Sorceror's Apprentice')
<Dum dum dubbity-dum, didum didubbity-dum>
Nope, sacred hamburger. Attacks and defenses scale equally now. If _anything_, I'd expect the Int attack to scale slightly (ie, +1 to +2) better as people tend to put more stat points into offense than defense
Cool reference, though :)
I read this less as a commentary on simplifying Dispel Magic and more on simplifying magic in general. Of course Dispel Magic gets simpler if there are fewer things that can be dispelled. I don't like it.
Very happy with this change myself. Dispel Magic in 3.5 is such a pain that it borders on making the game unplayable. I want to focus on the story not spend an hour having the PCs and NPCs roll zillions of dice to see which buffs are still functioning.
I'll take 'souless' any day if it means not drowning in the minutia of mechanics and can instead focus on the story. I want mechanics to serve the story not the other way around and I think this is a step in the right direction.
I don't see much of a difference here between the 3.5 version and 4E version other than scope. 3.5E Dispel Magic can affect every spell in its area or just one while 4E affects just one no matter what. This is nothing special.