Ya know, I just really wrapped my head around this one.
I'm pretty sure I have also just lost all interest in this game, I will wait to see the higher level spell and save mechanics, but basically I think this may be the nail in the coffin for me.
Spells and effects now have a "to hit" vs a save but this is to hit and is not the save.
Saves are also now based of two stats, taking whichever bonus is higher: Fort (con,str) Refx (dex,int) Will (wis,cha).
The actual save occurs if a spell takes effect. The save occurs at the end of a creature or players turn to end the effect and this is done round after round for the vast majority of spells and effects. The save is a strait 55% chance of success regardless of spell level, caster level, or level of the creature/player making the save.
Some creatures have an ability to get a higher save against certain effects and spells (spell resistant creatures will probably have a strait bonus vs all spells I'm guessing). There are also a large number of game effects that give a creature/player an immediate or extra saves.
Like I said, I will wait to get a full grasp of the mechanics, but I think i know where this is heading...to boring-town, annoying-ville, or pathetic-city for me and my wizard.
This is the MMO/video game effect of the wizard and it looks like 90% of the time this will be the role with little variation to mechanics. What the controller will do is spam AoE effects for either damage or constantly failing spell effects that will need to constantly be maintained during the course of the battle...basically defining the roll for the controller to this and this alone.
All the battles are based on groups of creatures now and you have unlimited minor spell effects....and you will need them because basically everything will save from your spell effects within a round or two. This means two things to me. One, I will do what I end up doing in MMO's with my wizard charater. Two, the wizard with low HP and saves(from what I have seen in comparison to the other 4th ed example charater sheets) will be basically useless on its own in comparison to the other classes.
I could be wrong on those assumptions, but if I'm right...well I will see you at the gamestore if you want to play 3.5.
I hate the save mechanics rules myself. It's pure stupid.
The 'to hit' mechanic isn't the problem. It works out the same as rolling a saving throw. It only change who rolled the die.
The two-stat thing is silly, but not necessarily stupid.
The ongoing (DC 10!) save is dumb on toast.
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Saves are also now based of two stats, taking whichever bonus is higher: Fort (con,str) Refx (dex,int) Will (wis,cha).
This part is fantastic. CON and STR are about how tough you are. DEX and INT are about how well you react. WIS and CHA are both about the force of your spirit.
I like this very much.
What I dislike is the flat save for ongoing effects. That bugs me.
Saves are also now based of two stats, taking whichever bonus is higher: Fort (con,str) Refx (dex,int) Will (wis,cha).This part is fantastic. CON and STR are about how tough you are. DEX and INT are about how well you react. WIS and CHA are both about the force of your spirit.
I like this very much.
What I dislike is the flat save for ongoing effects. That bugs me.
If there's some way of modifying that flat Save (caster level, for instance), than my concerns over it evaporate. I really don't like it being unmodified. That's going to bug the shit out of me.
Maybe I should have clarified... my big problem is with the flat-save, not so much with the other stuff. I don't think I can deal with that change without mocking it.
I would feel the urge to name my wizard "spambot_72102" every time I played.