In the next session, my PCs will encounter a ship full of sea zombies or drowned ones.
Last session, I ran a huge fight between my PCs and a ship of pirates, trying to have more variety by having differing crewmembers. It turned our that this was a lot of work for little gain. So, the zombie ship will have run-of-the-mill enemies, with two leaders. I want to use sea zombies as enemies, but did not find what I was looking for. I decided to recreate the AD&D1/2 version under the 3e rules, while incorporating the 3e information available.
My sources were the following:
TSR 2023, Greyhawk Adventures, p. 33/34 (several designers named, main designer James Ward) ;
TSR 2107 MC 5 Greyhawk Appendix (“Zombie”) (several designers named);
WW 8387 “Tome of Horrors” p. 283/284 (“Brine Zombie”) (Scott Greene);
Dungeon 106, p.48-50 (Drowned One template) (Greg Vaughan)
The main information were the 1e/2e sources. The Brine Zombie was too weak for my needs, and the template, while very well made, would mean a lot of work to create the sailors.
I post the stats I came up with in the second post. I think that I don´t break any copyrights by doing so. If so, the post should be removed.
Stefan
Sea Zombie
The stats
NE Medium Sized Undead (Aquatic)
Armor Class 13 or better, touch 9, flat-footed 13
(+4 natural, -1 Dex, possibly armor)
Hit Dice 4D12+3 (29 hp)
Initiative +3 (dex, Improved Initiative)
Speed: 15, swim 30
Attack +5 Cutlass (D: 1-6+3/19-20x2) or +5 slam (1-4+3) plus disease
Full Attack +5 Cutlass (D: 1-6+3/19-20x2) or +5 slam (1-4+3) plus disease
Base Attack/Grapple +2/+5
Space/Reach 5ft./5ft.
Special Attack Disease, nauseating appearance
Special Qualities +4 Turn Resistance, Fire Resistance 10, Cold
Resistance 10, Undead Traits, Electricity +50% Damage, Sunlight weakness, darkvision 60ft, deep water adaption, Hivemind
Abilities ST 17, DX 8, CO -, IN 7, WI 13, CH 10
Saves Fortitude +1 Reflex +0 Will +5
Skills Swim +15, Climb +6, Hide +3, Jump +6
Feats Improved Initiative, Toughness, (b)Blind Fight
Environment Any aquatic (mostly coastal)
Organization packs 2-24
Treasure standard
Challenge Rating 2
Alignment always evil, usually Neutral evil
Advancement 5-8 HD (Medium) or by Character Class
For the special attacks and qualities, please refer to the template in Dungeon 106.
Some ideas and explanations follow.
Stefan
What is the main difference between normal and sea zombie? Once I knew the 2e MM by heart, but that is no longer the case.
Couldn't you just give them the aquatic subtype?
And you posted the stats, so my previous comments no longer apply.
The fire resistance I would drop that in favor for acid resistance. The electricity vulnerabilty I can place quite easily. I don't know of this is a CR 2 creature, maybe a little tougher? You should playtest this creature using the rules as defined in the DMG / MM.
The original entry states that the visage and stench are horribly disgusting, so to be immune to the nausea, you would have to be both blinded and without olfactory senses to be unaffected.
I will use the bluerot disease from the template instead of the generic blood disease mentioned in the original entry.
If you use the monster as template and plan to add class levels, the stat modifiers are as follows: ST +6 (+1for 4 HD), DX –2, IN –4, WIS+2.
Land speed is reduced by half, swim speed at original land speed added.
Racial bonus of +8 on swimming.
Blind fight is a bonus feat.
Divine empowerment: Fully 50% of the Drowned Ones have the spell casting abilities (but no other abilities) of an evil cleric of level 1-4 (equal chance). They have access to the domains of Death,Evil and Trickery. If a drowned one happens to have cleric levels from his former life, these levels stack to determine effective spell casting level (but not other powers). In this case, the cleric level is added fully to the CR. Otherwise, Drowned Ones with cleric levels add ½ this level to their CR (round down).
Some ideas behind my design decisions:
I think giving them surprisingly fast attacks (improved initiative) adds to the horror of these creatures - slowly shambling gait, and then lightning fast attacks come unexpected.
The modifiers to the abilities are based on the template and I wanted to recreate the low intelligence of the original entry. The bonus to wisdom goes nicely with their spellcasting ability. This spellcasting stems from the original entries as well, but I think giving them spells without the ability to boost their turn resistance even further themselves is enough.
The challenge rating is probably a little low, a CR of 3 might be called for - this would be comparable to a ghast, who has 4 HD and CR 3 as well. But the template gave only a +1 to CR to the original creature.
Stefan
Thanks for the fast comments.
The CR may indeed be off, as I noted myself (talk about parallel posting...)
Acid resistance is very fitting, as well. I just took the resistances from the template, but fire resistance 5 might be enough to represent the water-logged state.
Stefan
On the background of my encounter: The PCs are in the process to transport the Chalice of the Shield Lands (TSR 2023, Greyhawk Adventures) to Alhaster (before Zeech seceded from the Shield Lands in 577 CY). The shortest route is by ship. Transporting a mighty item like the chalice does not go unnoticed by the forces of evil, and an old sunken ship returns to the surface of the lake Nyr Dyv, manned by Sea Zombies. The Zombies are led by a undead knight (Sea Zombie with several fighter levels), and a Sea Zombie priest (formerly of Pelor, now of Nerull). It is an old Shield Lander ship sunk decades ago. The tattered remains of the Shield Lands flag and the Pelor symbols are still visible.
I plan on giving my PCs some special magical items via this route, the leaders have some. (A shield and a weepon for the knight, and an armor for the priest.)
Stefan
Some ideas behind my design decisions:
I think giving them surprisingly fast attacks (improved initiative) adds to the horror of these creatures - slowly shambling gait, and then lightning fast attacks come unexpected.
From a design perspective this is true, but with their slow speed nothing will be accomplished by the zombies even when they have initiative. Maybe you can give them a burst of speed (Su) that quadruples their speed for 1 round, recharges every 1d4+1 rounds?
They zombies slowly shamble towards the PCs and then 'boom' they are suddenly in their faces hacking away with their cutlasses.
Give them acid and fire resistance 5, their watterlogged state makes them somewhat immune to these attacks. I think CR 3 would be correct.
Some ideas behind my design decisions:
I think giving them surprisingly fast attacks (improved initiative) adds to the horror of these creatures - slowly shambling gait, and then lightning fast attacks come unexpected.
From a design perspective this is true, but with their slow speed nothing will be accomplished by the zombies even when they have initiative. Maybe you can give them a burst of speed (Su) that quadruples their speed for 1 round, recharges every 1d4+1 rounds?
They zombies slowly shamble towards the PCs and then 'boom' they are suddenly in their faces hacking away with their cutlasses.
Give them acid and fire resistance 5, their watterlogged state makes them somewhat immune to these attacks. I think CR 3 would be correct.
Nice ideas, thank you. I think I will integrate these ideas.
Stefan
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I saw this thread and it immediately reminded me of the 3.5 Ravenloft Denizens of Dread. Here's the info on Sea Zombies for you(even though I see you've made your own). Some ideas may come in handy.
Medium Undead(Augmented Humanoid)
Hit Dice: 5d12+5(37 HP)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 30 feet(can't run), Swim 60 ft
AC: 16(+2 DEX, +2 leather armor, +2 natural), Touch 12, Flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +5, +8
Attack: Slam +8(1d10+3), Longsword +9(1d8+3), or Shortbow +8(1d6)
Full Attack: Same as attack
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Disease, stench
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing; darkvision 60 ft; double damage from lightning, electrical, and cold-based attacks; half damage from fire attacks; spell resistance 10; telepathic communication; +2 turn resistance; undead traits
Saves: Fortitude +7, Reflex +4, Will +1
Ability Scores: STR 17, DEX 16, CON -, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 10
Skills: Climb +4, Jump +4, Ride +2, Swim +4, Survival +2
Feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus(Longsword)
Environment: Any/shallow waters
Organization: Pack(6-10)
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: By character class
Sea Zombie
Rising from the water and clambering aboard the ship swarms a relentless pack of rotting, bloated sword-wielding corpses.
Sea zombies are the animated bodies of drowned humans. Similar in many ways to land-bound zombies, sea zombies are different in that they are free-willed and seem answerable only to the land of Ravenloft itself.
Resembling drowned corpses, sea zombies have discolored flesh, rotted out eyes and swollen tounges protruding from blackened lips. Many have served as food for fish, with evidence of bites all over their bodies. They exude a stench of dead fish, polluted sea-water, and massive decay.
Active at all hours underwater, sea zombies only rise to the surface at night. They lair deep under the sea, usually in the sunken wrecks of the ships they once sailed upon. Sea zombies rarely stray 100 feet from the water, though they may advance further inland under foggy conditions. When the fog retreats, so do the sea zombies.
Combat
Sea zombies exhibit extraordinary cunning and battle savvy in combat. Their hatred of the living enables them to plan clever traps to lure ships onto the rocks, at which point they board the ship and try to overwhelm the crew.
Disease/Poison (Ex): The putrid water that drops from the sea zombies and their weapons carries a particularly virulent blood disease. Anyone wounded by a sea-zombie must make an immediate DC 14 Fortitude save. Poison- Injury, DC 14 Fortitude, initial damage 1d4 Constitution, secondary damage 1d4 Constitution.
Stench (Ex): The reek of a sea zombie is so foul that anyone within 10 feet of the creature must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or become both nauseated and horrified, suffering -1 to all attack rolls and a -1 penalty to Armor Class for 2d4 rounds.
I think these guys might be a little too powerful than what you're looking for, but they do have some interesting features about them. The ranks in Ride make no sense to me. I'd probably fold those into the Swim skill, myself.
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Ability Scores: STR 17, DEX 16, CON -, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 10
Skills: Climb +4, Jump +4, Ride +2, Swim +4, Survival +2
That's some pretty wonky design there. Undead get 4+Int mod skill points per HD (as long as they have an Int score, and with the usual bonus of 4x points for that first HD/level), so this 5 HD Int 10 critter should have 32 skill points.
He's got (after modifications for his Str 17, Dex 16 and Wis 10) 1 rank of Climb, 1 rank of Swim, 1 rank of Jump, 2 ranks of Survival and negative one rank of Ride! Pretty funky.
With the Greyhawk style Drowned Ones often being priests with access to Death, Evil and Trickery, it sounds kinda like Nerull has something to do with their creation...
I've always made GA-style sea zombies by adding cleric levels to a lacedon ghast, rather than attempting to make a new monster... then again, I lack access to the template you referred to.
Cato, thanks for posting these Sea Zombies from Ravenloft. They are indeed too powerful for my needs, and somewhat odd (especially the high Dex seems strange to me). These Sea Zombies seem to be based on the old ideas somewhat, with their disease and horrible visage. But I will rather put some work into my version, setting them at CR 3 and integrating some of the ideas here.
Stefan
I've always made GA-style sea zombies by adding cleric levels to a lacedon ghast, rather than attempting to make a new monster... then again, I lack access to the template you referred to.
Yeah, I can see what you mean. But I wanted to recreate the original monster as close as possible, and a ghast is something different.
Stefan
Yeah, I can see what you mean. But I wanted to recreate the original monster as close as possible, and a ghast is something different.
Mechanically, though, they're a pretty good match: they've got the disease ability already, they can use the stench mechanics for your "nauseating appearance," etc. When you give them elite stats for picking up cleric levels, you can put the -2 into Intelligence, to lower it from the ghast's. The ghast's paralyzation would be an added surprise for players who remember the sea zombie, or could be "swapped out" for the resistances you listed.
The stats you posted look really good, and should work quite well. I personally am too lazy to invent new stats when I can use existing monsters and classes; maybe that's because of my Bavarian birth!
He Stebehil,
Don´t forget to tell how it went with your players and the final stats you used.
Mechanically, though, they're a pretty good match: they've got the disease ability already, they can use the stench mechanics for your "nauseating appearance," etc. When you give them elite stats for picking up cleric levels, you can put the -2 into Intelligence, to lower it from the ghast's. The ghast's paralyzation would be an added surprise for players who remember the sea zombie, or could be "swapped out" for the resistances you listed.
I specifically did not want to use the paralyzation ability, as this is a game stopper in my eyes: With bad luck, the whole party is paralyzed. And I wanted to have them attacking with weapons as well, as this leaves them closer to their human origin than the claw/claw/bite routine would. But this is a matter of taste after all.
I always heard Bavarians were especially industrious ?
Stefan
He Stebehil,
Don´t forget to tell how it went with your players and the final stats you used.
I will use the resistances Acid 5, Fire 5 and Cold 10, and perhaps the speedburst idea. Otherwise, I will stick to my stats, and give them CR 3. I think about giving the undead priest the feat Necromatic Presence, making it even harder to turn the Zombies. But the priest PC of Pelor has a lot of turning attempts and quite some bonuses, so a little challenge will be ok.
Our next game is planned on Feb, 18 - I will post the results afterwards.
Stefan
I will use the resistances Acid 5, Fire 5 and Cold 10, and perhaps the speedburst idea. Otherwise, I will stick to my stats, and give them CR 3. I think about giving the undead priest the feat Necromatic Presence, making it even harder to turn the Zombies. But the priest PC of Pelor has a lot of turning attempts and quite some bonuses, so a little challenge will be ok.
The 1E/2E version took double damage from cold, as well as electricity - but you've switched that over into cold resistance in your version for some reason? You've also gone for neutral evil, rather than chaotic evil?
Perhaps the Ravenloft sea zombies have high Dex because they're mostly sailors originally?
Move 15 does seem very slow - I think I'd stick with the standard 30 (can't run), with a swim speed of 40.
There's an undead called "Drowned" in MMIII, but it's a 20HD, CR 8 creature, so I don't think it's much help! It has a nice Drowning Aura special attack.
Good luck with your game, whatever you decide!
I specifically did not want to use the paralyzation ability, as this is a game stopper in my eyes: With bad luck, the whole party is paralyzed. And I wanted to have them attacking with weapons as well, as this leaves them closer to their human origin than the claw/claw/bite routine would. But this is a matter of taste after all.
Indeed; although my group uses Action Points, so that paralyzation is more a means of soaking them up than a party-stopper. I agree it would be closer to the source material, and human origins, for them to use weapons, however. Maybe the disease could be applied to weapon strikes, and the paralysis then becomes a moot point (because they're not attacking with natural weapons)? Or maybe they'd use manufactured weapons, and bite as a secondary attack (with a much lesser chance of hitting).
I always heard Bavarians were especially industrious?
Perhaps the stereotype has changed? I was always told by Fischkopfen (people from Schleswig, etc.) that Bavarians were lazy, stupid, provincial, and otherwise not "real" Germans!
Our next game is planned on Feb, 18 - I will post the results afterwards.
I look forward to seeing how it went! Thank you.
The 1E/2E version took double damage from cold, as well as electricity - but you've switched that over into cold resistance in your version for some reason? You've also gone for neutral evil, rather than chaotic evil?
Whoops! The cold resistance I got from the template out of Dungeon 106. Hmmm - have to think about that one. Neutral Evil is more in line with their "patron" Nerull.
Perhaps the Ravenloft sea zombies have high Dex because they're mostly sailors originally?Move 15 does seem very slow - I think I'd stick with the standard 30 (can't run), with a swim speed of 40.
Well, the slow walking speed is from the original monster, which had half speed for walking and full speed for swimming. The reasoning for the high Dex is good, but I want them slow and shambling - seemingly no big threat...
There's an undead called "Drowned" in MMIII, but it's a 20HD, CR 8 creature, so I don't think it's much help! It has a nice Drowning Aura special attack.Good luck with your game, whatever you decide!
I´ve seen this drowned, but decided against it - does not capture the feeling I want. Thanks!
Stefan
I specifically did not want to use the paralyzation ability, as this is a game stopper in my eyes: With bad luck, the whole party is paralyzed. And I wanted to have them attacking with weapons as well, as this leaves them closer to their human origin than the claw/claw/bite routine would. But this is a matter of taste after all.Indeed; although my group uses Action Points, so that paralyzation is more a means of soaking them up than a party-stopper. I agree it would be closer to the source material, and human origins, for them to use weapons, however. Maybe the disease could be applied to weapon strikes, and the paralysis then becomes a moot point (because they're not attacking with natural weapons)? Or maybe they'd use manufactured weapons, and bite as a secondary attack (with a much lesser chance of hitting).
The weapon strikes definitly carry the disease, as per the original monster description, as does a normal slam attack they also have.
I always heard Bavarians were especially industrious?Perhaps the stereotype has changed? I was always told by Fischkopfen (people from Schleswig, etc.) that Bavarians were lazy, stupid, provincial, and otherwise not "real" Germans!
Well, I won´t argue the "real" German part, and provincial might be true as well :-) The Free State of Bavaria is considered by many "Saupreißen" not to be a proper part of Germany, as are all the parts below the "Weisswurstäquator", where they speak odd dialects. ;-)
BTW, do I count as Fischkopp, living near Hannover?Stefan
I was just working on the details of the encounter, and I think it could get really nasty:
My three PCs are 6th level now. They will encounter a dozen drowned ones, half of which are clerics of level 1 to 4, with only the spells.
Normally, an encounter like this would be easily taken care of by the cleric PC (of Pelor, with the Sun domain and one or two feats boosting turning undead.) But the +4 turn resistance makes the thing more difficult already.
Then, I will include a level 6 fighter Sea Zombie and a Level 6 cleric Sea Zombie (of Nerull, with Trickery and Death). The Cleric will bolster the undead (Turning roll +4, should give a 14 or 15, so cleric Level +1), giving them probably about 7 HD for turning. With turn resistance +4, they suddenly turn as 11 HD undead. The Fighter and the Cleric turn as 14 HD (4 HD base monster, 6 levels, +4 turn resistance) anyway, so there is nothing to add to that.
And with a lot of clerics around, the monsters will recieve boost spells, like Prot/good, Magic Weapon, or for higher levels, Bulls strength.
Especially nasty is the trickery sphere, with invisibility at second level. The undead priest can cast all manner of spells to bolster the fighter, "heal" him, even cast silence over an area without getting visible again. And advancing unseen to a badly hurt enemy and attacking him with the Death Touch special ability is a very nasty tactic.
The fighter will make full use of his extreme high strength and use power attack to the fullest, never mind the Bulls Strength and the Magic Weapon Spells he will recieve.
This should be some fight to remember.
Stefan
The Free State of Bavaria is considered by many "Saupreißen" not to be a proper part of Germany, as are all the parts below the "Weisswurstäquator", where they speak odd dialects. ;-)
BTW, do I count as Fischkopp, living near Hannover?
Niedersachsen doesn't count as Fish-head territory unless you're actually on the coast (Hannover is comfortably far from it); usually it's just Schleswig-Holstein and Mecklenburg-Vorprommern.
The Southern dialects are great; I can't even understand most other Bavarians when they speak :) (Of course my German, sadly, is almost completely gone now that I've been living in the U.S. for so long; I don't understand anyone anymore. I can still count and curse, and that's about all.)
Well, the session is done. The fight was hard - very hard, and could have resulted in a TPK. I had to cheat a few times.
The PCs were aboard a ship with several NPCs (knights and a priest, I will post the full story soon under the campaign journal section). At nightfall, the wind disappeared and it became foggy. I had them make several listen checks to notice a ship approaching despite the calm, but they were deaf. So, they noticed the ghost ship quite late, and did not have much time to prepare. On the ghost ship, there were a dozen regular Drowned Ones, half of them with spellcasting levels 1 to 4. The leaders were a 6th level priest and a 6th level fighter - sea zombies both, so they were 10 HD monsters.
As the ghost ship approached, one PC (an archer) managed to take out one zombie with arrows. The moment the zombies stormed the PCs ship, the PC priest of Pelor tried to turn them, but to no avail - the regular zombies have +4 turn resistance, and the undead priest boosted them for another +2 - so they turned as 10 HD monsters. A 6th level priest needs max turn check to have any effect.
So, the zombies stormed, and the PCs (and NPCs, but I don´t roll the NPC vs. monster action) had to roll their saves against nausea - promptly, the knight PC was incapacitated. She had uttered a knights challenge against the enemies, and the undead fighter missed his save, so he attacked her. With power attack, magic weapon, bulls strength and a high strength score to start with, he scored a single hit for around 20 points of damage.
He bull rushed her back to get at the archer, and hit him a few times. Meanwhile, the fight area went under a silence spell, leading the priest to look for the spell caster - but there was none to be seen. The NPC priest of Heironeous fought against the undead knight as well, got severely hurt, and backed out of the fight, healing himself and finally dispelling the silence, along with the buff spells on the undead knight and the invisibility on the undead priest, who was just about to touch the PC knight with his death touch ability, but did roll too low for this ability.
Meanwhile, the archer had been downed by the undead knight (and gotten himself infected in the process), and was healed by the NPC priest, while the knight and the priest battled the two undead (the priest had meanwhile managed to turn some of the regular zombies - talk about some high rolls). The undead downed the knight PC, who was in turn healed back by her squire, and the two priests battled the undead, resulting in several grave injuries, until the PC priest could bring his Holy Mace to bear on the undead priest.
They managed to defeat the undead just barely. The buff spells by the invisible undead priest and the high strength score of the undead knight, combined with his high armor class (24), proved to be a nasty combination. Had the PCs a few more rounds to prepare, it would have looked much different. Turn resistance and undead buffing is nasty, and the nausea is evil - unable to do anything for a round, and having to save every round is bad news, even if the average DC is only 12.
Involved were a knight lvl6, a priest lvl6, a ranger1/fighter5, and a NPC priest9/fighter1, against a sea zombie fighter 6 (CR 9) and a sea zombie cleric 6 (CR 6 - spellcasting does not add fully to a sea zombie, unless it has this spell casting ability, I would rule).
But it was an exciting fight, I think.
Stefan
Do you think that your design needs to be adjusted or do you think that you maybe threw too many zombies at the party?
I think I made the main enemies a little too powerful for my party, and underestimated the effect of the buff spells. Overall, CR 3 seems to be about right for a standard Sea Zombie, as they seem to be roughly comparable to a ghast in terms of threat. Had I set both main enemies at CR 6, it would have been just right, I guess. Most of the standard zombies were neutralized by my NPCs anyway, so they didn´t play a large role in it.
Stefan
I think I made the main enemies a little too powerful for my party, and underestimated the effect of the buff spells. Overall, CR 3 seems to be about right for a standard Sea Zombie, as they seem to be roughly comparable to a ghast in terms of threat. Had I set both main enemies at CR 6, it would have been just right, I guess. Most of the standard zombies were neutralized by my NPCs anyway, so they didn´t play a large role in it.
Stefan
I agree; CR 3 looks about right for the base sea zombie. What it sounds like from your post is that the undead knight on top of the rest was maybe a bit too much for them--maybe you could've docked him a couple of class levels. Unless, of course, this was meant to be a climactic battle, in which case it sounds like it went quite well!
P.S. I love how you had the knight bull rush one of the PCs in order to get at the archer; a great use of tactics in a monster, one that most DMs would have overlooked.
It was meant to be an climactic battle - I tried to build up some suspense by decribing the ghost ship and all, so they knew what was coming. Still, a level or two less for the undead knight would have been better.
The bull rush maneuver was great for him, as he had the improved bull rush feat, and was boosted to the point where his bull rush bonus was at +10 - +6 STR and +4 from the feat - I reasoned he had been trained in life to be the "line breaker" , breaking up enemy shield lines on the battlefield.
Within the limited space on the ship, I had a chance to choose another target (the archer had hit the undead knight before), so I did not need to kill my PC knight on the spot...
All in all, I am content with how this encounter ran.
Stefan
All in all, I am content with how this encounter ran.
It sounds like you have good reason to be pleased! Thanks again for posting it.
I finally came around posting a summary of that fight within my campaign journal .
If anyone is interested in the full stats and tactics writeup of the two main enemies, I might translate and post them here, if I find the time for it.
Stefan
Stebehil,
What happened to the sudden burst of speed that the zombies could haven gotten? Did you design it out of the stats?
Stebehil,
What happened to the sudden burst of speed that the zombies could haven gotten? Did you design it out of the stats?
bump