Regardless of what changes in D&D, I think there are always going to be players who do not want ANY change at all. They've spent so much time and energy studying a certain game that occasionally playing something different just isn't an option anymore.
In some cases you have rules lawyers. They have spent countless hours reading errata on the scout's skirmish ability, memorizing the damage penalty for moving through a wall of thorns and pointing out umpteen times on forums about when you can and can't take an attack of opportunity. They are the masters of the ins and outs of THE system (as long as that system does not change).
In other cases you have the canon grognards. These players find it preposterous that Nerull is mentioned in an article about the Old Faith and will scream if a demon lord is presented with anything fewer than thirty hit dice. They may also find it is obsurd to ever consider playing a halfling cobbler let alone anything like (*gasp*) an undead necromancer.
What do these two groups have in common? In mosts cases, they are old and jaded. If you had a dime for every one of their complaints, you could probably buy the rights to the "most popular roleplaying game" out there and make Munchkins a race and spikey hair a feat out of spite.
Is your tolerance to try something new fading? Is the D&D logo on your hand flashing away? Are you a runner? If so, will you find Sanctuary?
(This rant was brought to you by the letter I, as in the phrase 'I wish to sound important as if my words meant anything to anyone.')
Sebastian's computer needs glasses. The post was only up for a few minutes, and it never fell off the top 3.
Why are there two threads for this...I call smurf!
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
Is he serious? I thought the last part in brackets was a disclaimer.
Nah, it was the cleverest of clever troll tactics, the "maybe I'm not mocking you aside." Now he can claim to be joking or serious depending on the strength of the angry counter post.
Oh yes, there are definitely goats on the bridge. Oh yes...
|
Nah, it was the cleverest of clever troll tactics, the "maybe I'm not mocking you aside." Now he can claim to be joking or serious depending on the strength of the angry counter post.
It blunts the provocativeness of the post, though. It breaks against the beach, spitting up a guppy. It doesn't wash into the condominiums at all.
It could help me that I inwardly mock people who try the ploy of "you're old and afraid of change" to berate my grognardy. I've done entirely too much wild shit in my life to feel bad about not switching from one d&d game to another d&d game. "ooh, you're afraid of a new set of statistics to determine the outcome of random number generators." My punk point tally is safe.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
It blunts the provocativeness of the post, though. It breaks against the beach, spitting up a guppy. It doesn't wash into the condominiums at all.
Nah, it was the cleverest of clever troll tactics, the "maybe I'm not mocking you aside." Now he can claim to be joking or serious depending on the strength of the angry counter post.
Tell it to the judge alpo-breath. I still call shenanigans and FAIL!
He'll get it. Gary senses these things.Shouldn't someone email the postmonster about the double post of the same thread?
I don't see a second one, and when Sebastian pointed out this link it goes straight to the 4th edition main forum page.
The Paizo board gods are very mysterious!
I was going to use Smurf as a race instead of Munchkin, but unfortunately there is no Intellect Devourer Smurf.
|
|
I call shenaningans. This post fell out of the top 10 before anyone responded with an angry vitriolic post. Daigle just bumped it because I was mocking Takasi's troll abilities in the chat room.
I still call FAIL!
It fell out of the top ten. I saw it.
I didn't even have to knock it out with extraneous word game posts.
It fell out of the top ten. I saw it.
Are you sure it wasn't this 'phantom' post people keep seeing?
|
|
Heh trolling huh? I'll bite for fun. I'm at work and seeing as I'm getting paid an exorbitant amount for this time.
Oh yes it's grognards and rules lawyers who have a problem with the edition change. Lets start throwing around labels. Sure if you don't like the new edition you must be a grognard. I'll make this fairly short and succinct. I present the change rant.
Change for change sake isn't good. Newer isn't always better. That's modern consumer propaganda. Buy buy buy.
Best example; textbook publishers release new editions as soon as they can. Calculus books change pretty much every year. They change the cover, move around some chapters and add a few new problems here and there. Funny I thought calculus hadn't changed much in quite a long time. So the result is basically people buy new editions every year at around $100+. You think D&D is bad, my physics book was up to 11th or 12th edition in as many years. But hey there's a brand new CD in every edition these days! Wow.
Yes RPG publishers have caught on. They call them revisions. Wotc learned that particular trick from white wolf in the 90's. Release core, come out with second edition a couple years later. It got so bad I skipped the initial release of Mage and just bought the revision that magically appeared later.
Let me dispel that little myth that rules lawyers are going to be upset over the edition change. Yes a larger body of work like 3.X allows you to game the system more and yes let's face it those writers where phoning in some of those later splatbooks making exploits that much easier. "Playtesting, you're kidding right? We need to start working on next month's book."
The rules lawyer I know is salivating at the idea of a new edition. He can't wait to knock over that particular house of cards. Of course I think he gets off on pointing out the gaping rules loopholes you could drive a truck through. Good thing Wotc supplies them so often.
As for grognards, oh ya since I played first edition a couple times and enjoyed ZORK when it was initially released that makes me a caveman. I'd hope that people that have been playing longer have a larger experience base to judge new product against. On that note I'm going to be utilizing 3.0 spells in my 3.5 pathfinder game. Just say no to nerf. ;)
Looks like you got a bite Tak.Bah, nobody debates anymore. }: P
I totally disagree.
As for grognards, oh ya since I played first edition a couple times and enjoyed ZORK when it was initially released that makes me a caveman.
Mr. A. Draconis,
Please keep your belittling asides about 'cavemen', or, as we prefer to be called 'Homo neanderthalensis', out of your debates over 4e. Any further snide and insulting references to our species will require further action.
Sincerely,
A. Caveman
I was going to use Smurf as a race instead of Munchkin, but unfortunately there is no Intellect Devourer Smurf.
I disagree. My brother watched the show regularly. Every time I sat down with him, I felt my brain dissolve. Smurfs ARE Intellect Devourers!!
Next on Jerry Springer, "Smurfs ate my brain!"
Next on Jerry Springer, "Smurfs ate my brain!"
And cloned my Avatar... :D
No! I can't be a Smurf! I am a DRAGON!!! ~runs away~
No! I can't be a Smurf! I am a DRAGON!!! ~runs away~
It's a Draconic Template Smurf! EVERYONE should run!
|
In some cases you have rules lawyers. They have spent countless hours reading errata on the scout's skirmish ability, memorizing the damage penalty for moving through a wall of thorns and pointing out umpteen times on forums about when you can and can't take an attack of opportunity. They are the masters of the ins and outs of THE system (as long as that system does not change).
I do disagree good sir. I think you do not understand the perverse joys in the dark hearts of we rules lawyers.
An entirely NEW system to study, analyze, and memorize? It is a fresh sacrifice to our gods. Truly, with each we master, the more powerful we become.
After all, real lawyers have to keep up with real laws, and that's ever so much more boring. :P
SAVE YOUR GAME NOW! PRORDER 4E!NOW
Is your tolerance to try something new fading? Is the D&D logo on your hand flashing away? Are you a runner? If so, will you find Sanctuary?
It's actually my desire to try something new that precludes me from getting D&D4. D&D is not synonymous with RPG for me. It is only one brand name among many. An expensive one at that. Instead I'll be checking out Castles & Crusade, Chronicles of Ramlar, and GURPS in '08. Maybe d6 Space, we'll see how it goes.
It's actually my desire to try something new that precludes me from getting D&D4.
Another one! Thank you, WotC.
Excellent, I'm glad to see some people are seeing the argument clearly.
Dusty old farts and anal retentive OCD cases will always refuse to play new editions of games. Ergo de facto, anyone who has complaints about 4th edition must belong to one of these two groups.
However, CharlieRock has found another faction: poor people.
4th edition is just another game, like 3rd edition or 2nd edition or Castles and Crusades or Warhammer FRPG, but people without the time or disposable income (the logical conclusion being filthy retches) can't play them all. Let them eat Paizo!
In conclusion, if you don't play 4th edition you are either a wrinkled up fossil, an egomaniacal book worm or a member of the unwashed masses.
Contributor
|
In conclusion, if you don't play 4th edition you are either a wrinkled up fossil, an egomaniacal book worm or a member of the unwashed masses.
I'm so confused. I am all three of these things, but I will probably play 4E. I'll probably keep playing 3.5 too, but still.
Takasi, this thread is awesome!
|
|
Heath, perhaps I missed something, but 50-29=21, not 31.
I'm also pretty certain this is the first time I've seen an error in your multitude of posts, so kudos!
meh....I'm pretty sure it's 31. Don't ask me how I know.