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This isn’t necessarily a suggestion or request, just a musing which I’m curious how others feel.
I just had a thought about the impending disappointment I may feel over learning if Pathfinder abandons 3.5 as the engine of choice. Then I remember how completely thrilled I was hearing how our Golarion hardcover will be system-less. Then was the natural thought of “I would even be OK if the monthly Pathfinders were system-less too”. I mean, to me anyway, the most important part of the adventure is the story, characters and plot.
I remember running *many* a Dungeon magazine adventure that I replaced nearly all of the creatures and NPCs to a higher or lower level by up to 5 or more both ways because it was so perfect to fit in the campaign I was running at the time.
Of course, this is a fairly selfish view. For me it’s easy as cake. I own about 14 or 15 of the best d20 monster books, and finding a similar beast with a CR of a different level is a snap. I’ve indexed all of the sample NPCs in WotC products (and many from Dragon Magazine) and they number in the thousands, so finding a replacement stat block is also a breeze. I can convert a full module in about an hour with the lists I made up and a little work. It’s worth it.
I do know that for many, one of the draws of adventures is new goodies in the numbers department. Asking a DM to do his own work for an adventure may be straight-out. But I see loads of threads around on how various DMs are converted Paizo or WotC stuff to True 20, Iron Heroes, Arcana Evolved, even Mutants & Masterminds for crying out loud.
In general if 4e combat builds are close enough to approximate to 3.5 standards then I might not have a problem. I many continue my Pathfinder Subscription based on the fact that I don’t mind a little conversion work. I’m just worried if the combats have become these unconvertible mass-monster big-roomed formulas we’ve heard about in playtests or threats and solutions will be tied so closely to new 4e character abilities and power levels that conversions may be nearly impossible.
Anyway, that’s my random musing. I seriously thought I would have no gaming purchases after August 2008 if Paizo went 4e, but the storylines, grit and themes are so potent and enjoyable for my group I may stay on to see if conversion is possible.
-DM Jeff
I think Pathfinder should us some system. For one thing using a system, almost any system, forces the designers to consider the adventures in terms of a game and define how things will work in game terms.
Writing adventures without using any system whatsoever creates a danger of making an adventure that is actually very difficult to convert into any system. It might read great and it might be conceptually fantastic but if it can't converted into some kind game system its not really going to work.
Beyond this converting from system A to system B will have certain common themes. Presuming both games have things like monsters and traps and hard to open locks one can get a feel for converting. So if system A uses something like a DC check to open a lock and system B uses a percentile system it eventually becomes possible to decipher roughly how hard it is to open a lock from one system to another. One might for example decide that DC 20 locks are unmodified in the percentile system but DC 30 locks impose a -25% penalty for those who try and pick them.
Similarly if system A has magic missiles while system B has Force Balls and their both lowish level damage spells the DM can pretty safely convert from one to the other. If your not using any system how do you explain something like this? Essentially you end up either not explaining what the BBEG mage is really doing or you actually invent a whole new nomeculture so that you can say "low level direct damage dealing spell" in fewer words then I have just used.
As a final benefit, if a system is used then at least those that use that system can directly benefit from the material.
I'm against it, simply because nobody gains anything from it - if you don't want to use the system presented, just ignore the mechanical aspects and make your own (just as you'd do with a systemless module).
I'd much rather have Pathfinder with stats for some RPG system (even if it's 4e), and conversation manuals (which is a must if Paizo goes with 4e - then I want 3.5 conversions, and quickly).
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I'm against it, simply because nobody gains anything from it - if you don't want to use the system presented, just ignore the mechanical aspects and make your own (just as you'd do with a systemless module).
I agree. As someone who doesn't play 3e I convert A LOT of modules. But, just because I'm converting doesn't mean that the 3e'ers shouldn't have everything they need to run as is.
From a marketing standpoint I imagine such a venture would tank.
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Similarly if system A has magic missiles while system B has Force Balls and their both lowish level damage spells the DM can pretty safely convert from one to the other. If your not using any system how do you explain something like this? Essentially you end up either not explaining what the BBEG mage is really doing or you actually invent a whole new nomeculture so that you can say "low level direct damage dealing spell" in fewer words then I have just used.
I agree this would be this biggest hurtle. Back in the late 90's there were these little Pulp Dungeon modules that had a nearly systemless approcah. It boiled down basic fantasy roleplaying ideals into a few generalized statements and used them. It worked well for encounters, but virtually everything else (specific tactics, traps, etc.) were nearly impossible.
And I have written elsewhere one of the draws of Paizo's writers is catering to specific class abilities and what can be accomplished by, and made challenging for, specific characters and certain levels. My fear is any 4e to 3e might not be easy at all. Not just as easy as 'plug in the monster'.
-DM Jeff
Against it as well. The point of buying adventures from companies is to avoid a lot of the prep time a DM has to go through when creating their own adventures.
Yeah - what he said...
Prep time is a precious resource for me and needs to be spent on making sure the game is interesting and PCs fit into the plots etc - the absolute last thing I need is to be hunting down stats and deciding on opponents.
I note, with interest that all the talk is of converting systems that in my mind are essentially still D&D, just another flavour. Now what would be a challenge is to shift to an altogether different system like Warhammer, Mongoose Runequest or the long awaited Basic Role Playing from Chaosium. Now that would be fun.
Then I remember how completely thrilled I was hearing how our Golarion hardcover will be system-less.Umm... where did you hear that?
This is in the discussion on the product page:
A significant majority of this book will be systemless, for sure.
This is also my main reason for purchasing adventures. What I am really hoping for is a conversion document. I would happily pay extra for it, in fact.
Against it as well. The point of buying adventures from companies is to avoid a lot of the prep time a DM has to go through when creating their own adventures.
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Contributor
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Then I remember how completely thrilled I was hearing how our Golarion hardcover will be system-less.Umm... where did you hear that?Ah, as noted above, the majority would be systemless, that's all!
-DM Jeff
Okay, just so long as you're clear that when there are rules elements in that book, they will have a system. The entire book isn't systemless.
Against it as well. The point of buying adventures from companies is to avoid a lot of the prep time a DM has to go through when creating their own adventures.
Amen