Looking at the prices for golem construction, there doesn't seem to be any kind of consistent formula involved. I seem to remember that in the 3.0 Monster Manual the prices followed a loose formula, along the lines of HD x 5500, rounded to the nearest 10,000th. However, in 3.5 some of the prices have changed, leaving a mess of seemingly random values. Has anyone cracked the code? I know someone here has made up their own golems before. If so, how did you settle on a cost?
I've looked through Mongoose's Constructs: Its Alive! book and was kinda meh'd by it. If anyone can give me a better answer than "just pick a number, no one builds golems anyway" I would be really damn grateful.
Have you tried subtracting the component costs of the listed spells and then seeing if the HD*5500 gp formula works?
Just use 3.0 pricing since it was easier. I actually used the Mongoose book (mostly for automatons). Sorry if that didn't help.
Have you tried subtracting the component costs of the listed spells and then seeing if the HD*5500 gp formula works?
No dice. I'm almost 100% that there is no formula, but I'm no mathematics expert, so I figured I would tap the awesome power of the Paizo Messageboards. If figure, for as long as this version has been out there, someone's figured it out by now, or at least has a tip or two on determining the cost when designing a new construct.
Just use 3.0 pricing since it was easier. I actually used the Mongoose book (mostly for automatons). Sorry if that didn't help.
Yeah, thats what my wife suggested (using the 3.0 formulas), and I might end up doing that. And honestly, any response thats more than "OMG STFU" is helpful to me, so thanks!
One of the things I like about D20 is that most of the numbers can be calculated using specific equations, and even though that doesn't always produce balanced results (ask anyone who's tried designing a magic item), it at least provides a framework to work off of. When I see something in the game like this that appears to be totally random, it just irks me like a rusty nail wedged in my kneecap. I have this image in my head of the designer who set the golem prices in 3.5 reading this post and others like it, and laughing an Bond villain laugh. "Those fools! They'll never guess my insidious equations! Mwahahahaha"
WotC doesn't like it when you figure out the formulae of course. ;)
I took a look at golems using the srd. The greater stone golem seems to throw everything off. It's cost is disproportionate to the others. If you use the +5000 gp per extra hit die cost, it's way under the correct value. It should have a market value of +50,000 for size and +140,000 for an additional 28 hit dice, which is +190,000, or 280,000 altogether. Instead, it costs 196,000 gp. Huh? Where did they get that? I suspect an error during the 3.5 upgrade.
So I agree that you could easily go back to 3.0 pricing. (For that matter, I think golems are a bit overpriced. But that's a different topic entirely.) Or reprice the greater golem.
The greater stone golem seems to throw everything off. It's cost is disproportionate to the others.
If you calculate the cost of adding 28 HD to a Stone Golem, increasing its size as well, it works out to 190,000 (140,000 for HD plus 50,000 for size increase), which is pretty darn close to the price listed, 196,0000. I suspect they've muddled the process here. The price listed is too close to the advancement cost to be coincidence, but they also list a cost, 105,000, which means that the golem price is 182,000 with a 14,000 body cost. So, they starting calculating the cost of advancement, forgot what they were doing, and finished calculating the cost as if it were a new golem. One things for sure, if I ever get a wizard up to a high enough level to build a golem, I'm building a Greater Stone Golem. Taken at face value the savings are monstrous!
I think my problem has been that I've been looking for a catch-all number for all golems, instead of a number for each (the cost of a pound of flesh being different than the cost of a pound of iron). I'll take another look at it from a different angle and see what the numbers tell me.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
Looking at the prices for golem construction, there doesn't seem to be any kind of consistent formula involved. I seem to remember that in the 3.0 Monster Manual the prices followed a loose formula, along the lines of HD x 5500, rounded to the nearest 10,000th. <snip> If anyone can give me a better answer than "just pick a number, no one builds golems anyway" I would be really damn grateful.
Say, umm, mister kobold. What you buying all these golems for anyhow?
Just use 3.0 pricing since it was easier. I actually used the Mongoose book (mostly for automatons). Sorry if that didn't help.Yeah, thats what my wife suggested (using the 3.0 formulas), and I might end up doing that.
I've scoured the 3.0 and 3.5 PHB and found a few equations missing. In describing the calculation for determining damage in the 3.0 it comes right out and says all about the +s and the extra dice, using a psuedo-equation. In 3.5 nope. It tells you, but no little line using the equation format. The calciulation itself bears out from book to book. So what would be the harm in using another 3.0 method?
Say, umm, mister kobold. What you buying all these golems for anyhow?
Its a curiosity to me more than anything. As far as practical use goes, it would be helpful in determining the cost of weaker versions of the golems, as well as new golems. Quite a few magic items don't follow the standard price calculations, so its useful to figure out what calculation was used when trying to price a similar item. Now, I don't expect any of my players to actually build themselves any golems any time soon, but it helps when I need to know just how rich that NPC has to be to have Rocky the Stone Golem as a bodyguard.
Also I hope to conquer Finland with an unstoppable army of iron and stone, but at the rate my retirement fund is going thats gonna be a while...
So what would be the harm in using another 3.0 method?
Its all about consistency in the pricing. Clay and flesh golems are cheaper in 3.5, while iron and stone golems are more expensive. Its useful for comparison sake to try to line up the numbers, so that, say, a medium sized flesh golem (perhaps lesser flesh golem?) doesn't end up costing as much or more than a full-sized version. I'm not great when it comes to eyeball comparison, nor do I like just ballpark guessing, but I can handle some math. Its a comfort zone for me, and also, evilly, I can use it as a scapegoat when my player's accuse me of shenanigans ("Hey, don't blame me, I'm going by the rules!").