Merfolk have a very specific and important role built into Golarion already. They're in there, they have breasts, and there's a reason.
I got paid to write that! This job rocks.
I stole this quote from the ‘Dragonborn in Golarion’ thread. I wanted to grab some attention. :D
There’s been some things brought up at the Tuesday night chats related to this, and some of them interest me greatly. In fact, I’m geeking on them, so I wanted to get other people talking about it.. and maybe if there is interest, we can show it to Doc Jacobs.
It’s been mentioned a couple of times that things pertaining to the Sea and the races that dwell there are really important to Golarion. I don’t know why this strikes me as cool as it does, but I keep coming back to it over and over, wishing I knew more.
I think for me, it’s strikes a few chords with some favorite fantasy literature. Specifically the Riddle of the Stars trilogy by Patricia McKillip, which had an ancient race of shape-shifters invading from the sea, and often taking the form of loved ones lost.
Also, the Book of the New Sun series by Gene Wolfe. The connection is much harder to follow, but as the sun dies and the Earth cools, the seas are rising every year. Though I can’t honestly tell you what part they play in the grander story arc, there are references to colossal titans who live beneath the waves. Abaia and his undine consorts who have grown so large that they can not rise to surface due to gravity- a race of which the giant Badlanders (a main character) is part of..
And keeping it to DnD, the Aboleth’s themselves (so often referred to in the Pathfinder series) are absolutely fascinating.
Now, Innsmouth type giants from the seas have been alluded to in the Tuesday chat!
Anyway, I’ve begged for an underwater AP, but James Jacobs wisely points out that such a thing would be for a niche market, and right now they need to prioritize and keep PF growing. I can accept that.
But if not an entire underwater AP, how about part of an AP that touches upon these undersea mysteries? Part of a Chapter that glimpse into this mysterious world? After all, we have numerous ruins underneath the waves- perhaps some portal that leads to a section that is submerged but contains breathable air? What about all the Runewells that fired off underneath the ocean?
This is just stuff that gets me excited. Hopefully someone else will post and we can let James know we’re curious..
As long as I can give big squishy slimy aboleth hugs, I'll be very happy. :D
As long as I can give big squishy slimy aboleth hugs, I'll be very happy. :D
Fine, I'm signing off on this! Lilith is offically allowed to administer big squishy aboleth hugs.
Hooray! :D
As long as I can give big squishy slimy aboleth hugs, I'll be very happy. :D
EWWWWWWWWW!!! ~Runs away screaming like a little girl~ Yucky!
Continuing the geeking:
The sea is such a source of myth-building inspiration.
This is obvious horror. The likes of which are HP Lovecraft's Deep Ones, and Dagon..
And beauty.. like the obvious myth of the merfolk themselves.
The Sea is the source of life, and it's the arrogance of surface dwellers that discount where so much of life started.
When you consider stories like "Shadows over Innsmouth" you wonder what was going through the minds of townspeople besides just madness? (Besides the subtle perversion that HPL skims lightly over) An offering, or concession to the powers of the Sea?
Is ocean life all icky monsters and vast ancient alien intelligences?
There's also a sensual quality to the sub-genere.
What of the gender changing mutability of our own Gozreh? A Pathfinder mystery as of yet explained by the Doctor.
I'm just throwing out thoughts and ideas to get people talking...
What of the gender changing mutability of our own Gozreh? A Pathfinder mystery as of yet explained by the Doctor.
I'm just throwing out thoughts and ideas to get people talking...
Like, I'm sure James knows exactly why Gozreh has changed gender over time, but the implications are interesting to ponder.
Does the God change due to it's whims, or the mood of the world, and/or it's worshippers?
If you could guide all the worship of a God, could you alter it's aspect, especially if it was a particularly protean diety like a sea god? Could an entirely sociological 'campaign' (as in military or political campaign)
Gozreh, the Lord of Storms?
or
Gozreh, Mistress of the Great Cradle?
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Continuing the geeking:
The sea is such a source of myth-building inspiration.
This is obvious horror. The likes of which are HP Lovecraft's Deep Ones, and Dagon..
And beauty.. like the obvious myth of the merfolk themselves.
Interesting aside: in Celtic mythology, the Fomori, giants who opposed the gods, were said to have came from the sea.
EDIT: So when are we going to see the transcripts for this week and last week?
Interesting aside: in Celtic mythology, the Fomori, giants who opposed the gods, were said to have came from the sea.
EDIT: So when are we going to see the transcripts for this week and last week?
Not necessarily an aside Sect! I'm trying to drum up some conversation and interest, and celtic mythology is a very valid source.
Another Pathfinder bit: Our dead God, allegedly went into the sea to recover the Starstone where it had fallen, and that adventure was part of his Ascension. Perhaps the Sea is related to his death and/or disappearance?
As for the transcripts, not my department. Though Lilith has been doing an outstanding job at this. I'm East Coast, so I rarely can stay till the end.
So can anybody see any opposition between land and sea in the gradually unvieling of Golarion's aquatic mysteries? Perhaps there is both opposition and relationship?
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So can anybody see any opposition between land and sea in the gradually unvieling of Golarion's aquatic mysteries? Perhaps there is both opposition and relationship?
Why would the mermaids/sahaugin/other mysterious fishy creatures want anything to do with the land? After all, that is a big mistake. They just need to take a look at the world around them right there on the ocean floor. There's such wonderful things surrounding them, what more are they looking for?
Okay, references aside, are we talking about the Chelixian dead god, mentor of... Desna? or whas that Iomadae(sp?), or some other one?
Why would the mermaids/sahaugin/other mysterious fishy creatures want anything to do with the land? After all, that is a big mistake. They just need to take a look at the world around them right there on the ocean floor. There's such wonderful things surrounding them, what more are they looking for?
Dunno... But James has referred to aquatic Innsmouth type giants. Perhaps you have a point, maybe they aren't interested. Or perhaps there is more to be revealed.
Good questions for tonight's Chat!
Okay, references aside, are we talking about the Chelixian dead god, mentor of... Desna? or whas that Iomadae(sp?), or some other one?
Let me facillitate this discussion with a little bit of searching the Archives!
Take it away Mr. Mona...
Aroden, the Last of the First Humans, is an immortal descendant of the ancient human kingdom of Azlant, which (mostly) sank below the waters of the Arcadian Ocean west of Thassilon 10,000 years ago, when the Starstone fell from space, created the Inner Sea with its impact, and cast the world into a thousand years of darkness.
Somehow, Aroden survived. He is best known for raising the Starstone to its current resting place on the Isle of Kortos, at the heart of the city of Absalom. He thereafter ascended into the heavens, becoming the patron deity of the Kingdom of Taldor.
Over a period of a few thousand years, Taldor (which is located due east of the Isle of Kortos) spread northwest across the southern reaches of the continent of Avistan, where its frontier land claimed territory now known as Cheliax. When Taldor eventually became decadent and effete, the clerics of Aroden took their religion (and their mandate from heaven) west to Cheliax.
Aroden is a god of human culture, innovation, and history. An important prophecy suggested that he was to manifest on Golarion, presumably in Cheliax, about a hundred years ago, marking the beginning of a long-awaited Age of Glory. Instead, at the appointed hour, Golarion was wracked with three weeks of storms. When the weather broke, the clerics of Aroden found themselves disconnected from their god, and all presume Aroden is dead. After many decades of instablility, the diabolical house of Thrune claimed the throne in Cheliax, using their diabolical allies to keep the populace under control.
We are now at the close of the first century of the Age of Lost Omens, when all of the old prophecies are unreliable, and mankind must chart its own destiny.
I suspect that most clerics of Aroden have become clerics of Iomedae, his greatest servant, who is one of the few mortals of Golarion to travel through the Starstone and gain a measure of divinity herself.
Much more will be revealed about these deities in the Pathfinder Chronicles Gazetteer and elsewhere.
Howabout that?!
Incidentally, this very post I quoted from Erik is how I connected some dots concering the 3rd AP.. the Second Darkness, with it's Chapter "Shadow in the Sky"
But I'd like to keep on the undersea angle for this thread!
EDIT: Let me clarify.. I don't want to threadjack my own thread to geeking on the drow (who are lovely and evil and deserve geeking, but somewhere else)..
But what you have to realize when you read this is that Erik fails to mention (as it is mentioned elsewhere) that it was the ABOLETH who called down the Starstone in the first place!
Or maybe I'm the only one who finds this all exciting.
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Why would the mermaids/sahaugin/other mysterious fishy creatures want anything to do with the land? After all, that is a big mistake. They just need to take a look at the world around them right there on the ocean floor. There's such wonderful things surrounding them, what more are they looking for?
Yeah, up on the land they work all day, out in the sun they slave away...
The under sea and the sea in general is going to be a focus for my own Pathfinder game. I am going to use alot of the stuff from the last adventure Path in the Dungeon the Tides one. I really have always enjoyed the Isle of Dread and Sasserine is just so kewl a place, it was going to replace Magnimar but they have made Magnimar so kewl I have to relocate somewhere else. Any thoughts?
What they did with the Isle in the Tides series just so fits for me in the Pathfinder series, plus all those Rune wells firing up just so much grist for my mind to well up all sorts of grusome and fearsome beasts tocause havoc to the shipping and trade which of course will pull in my adveturing party. I would really like anothe coast/underwater AP or one that at least touches onsome of these subjuects perhaps further developing Magnimar and Sandpoint and other coastal towns not shown on the big map but suggested in the various descriptions I have read.
I have tried to use the sea with different groups and though there is always resistance to entering the deep dark cold waters, once they are there they all seem to have a grand time and it makes the surface just that much more fun.
You certainly have my vote to develop more of the sea.
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Why would the mermaids/sahaugin/other mysterious fishy creatures want anything to do with the land? After all, that is a big mistake. They just need to take a look at the world around them right there on the ocean floor. There's such wonderful things surrounding them, what more are they looking for?Yeah, up on the land they work all day, out in the sun they slave away...
...it’s better Down where it’s wetter, Take it from me
...it’s better Down where it’s wetter, Take it from me
Not quite the mysteries I was trying to get people to engage in discussion.. Hmmmmmmmm
Workin' on them night moves as Mr. Seger once sang.
But perhaps I need to meet the audience where they are, instead of hoping for the other way around. :)
Gentleman, you realize that discussion of Undersea Golarian is the one true path to Kyra and Seoni in swimsuits?
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...it’s better Down where it’s wetter, Take it from me
Not quite the mysteries I was trying to get people to engage in discussion.. Hmmmmmmmm
Workin' on them night moves as Mr. Seger once sang.
But perhaps I need to meet the audience where they are, instead of hoping for the other way around. :)
Gentleman, you realize that discussion of Undersea Golarian is the one true path to Kyra and Seoni in swimsuits?
You have a baaad mind.
I was just singing along to a Disney song.
You have a baaad mind.I was just singing along to a Disney song.
Oh I know. I have a 18 year old daughter. Don't think for a moment I didn't sit through the Little Mermaid a dozen times. I was always partial to Beauty and the Beast myself. :)
But yes, I have a bad mind. After 40 one becomes a little jaded.
But hey! What about all that cool stuff that James has been alluding to?
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But hey! What about all that cool stuff that James has been alluding to?
I've always been divided a bit on undersea adventures. On the one hand they always seem like a really nifty idea if done right. On the other hand they are, almost by default, high magic adventures and my personal style has always been a little bit more on the moderate to low side of magic.
I am interested to see what Paizo will do with the theme.
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You have a baaad mind.I was just singing along to a Disney song.
Oh I know. I have a 18 year old daughter. Don't think for a moment I didn't sit through the Little Mermaid a dozen times. I was always partial to Beauty and the Beast myself. :)
But yes, I have a bad mind. After 40 one becomes a little jaded.
But hey! What about all that cool stuff that James has been alluding to?
Me, I'm a huge fan of Sleeping Beauty. Dragon-Maleficent is hawt!
Anyways, all I know of the seas of Golarion is right here. I'm just stoked at JJ's serious response to a joke question I asked last week.
So what's this about aboleths pulling down Starseeds or whatever?
NINJA EDIT: Starstone. Whatever. What is it? Is it tasty?
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Me, I'm a huge fan of Sleeping Beauty. Dragon-Maleficent is hawt!
[threadjack]That is, IMO, the best part of that whole movie.
Personally I'm a Lilo and Stitch man myself.
I will confess to having watched The Little Mermaid a dozen times or so in college, though seldom by choice. I always complained to my girlfriend/fiancee/now wife of 14 years that it was dissapointing Ariel didn't die like she did "in the book." But the music sticks with me even after all these years.
Anyways, all I know of the seas of Golarion is right here. I'm just stoked at JJ's serious response to a joke question I asked last week.
So what's this about aboleths pulling down Starseeds or whatever?
NINJA EDIT: Starstone. Whatever. What is it? Is it tasty?
For the record, I concur about Maleficent. With the unfortunate caveat that Woody Allen felt much the same as we. Oh well.
Starstone!
I know very little about it, other than the Aboleths used it to dash the world in a 1000 years of darkness and it destroyed an Empire and created a sea.
Possibly Thassalonia got caught up as well, and that's why half of it is underwater today.
I also know that our missing diety "passed through it" to get to Heaven.
Sect, your mission in case I am late, is to grill Dr. Jacobs about the Starstone and all things aquatic in tonight's chat. I post this here, so that he has fair warning. No, "Uhhh, I dunno, we're going to uhh, reveal that later." :) Just kidding James!
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[threadjack]That is, IMO, the best part of that whole movie.
Me, I'm a huge fan of Sleeping Beauty. Dragon-Maleficent is hawt!
I love the whole movie, especially the nit-pickery between the witches, but yes, Dragon-Maleficent was indeed the best part. I mean, that sleek physique, the wonderful color scheme of her scales, the ferocity of her breath of emerald flames...
... But, yeah, Lilo and Stitch kicked ass.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Sect, your mission in case I am late, is to grill Dr. Jacobs about the Starstone and all things aquatic in tonight's chat. I post this here, so that he has fair warning. No, "Uhhh, I dunno, we're going to uhh, reveal that later." :) Just kidding James!
Unfortunately, with the alterations to my work schedule, I'll be dead asleep when the chat happens.
The under sea and the sea in general is going to be a focus for my own Pathfinder game. I am going to use alot of the stuff from the last adventure Path in the Dungeon the Tides one. I really have always enjoyed the Isle of Dread and Sasserine is just so kewl a place, it was going to replace Magnimar but they have made Magnimar so kewl I have to relocate somewhere else. Any thoughts?
What they did with the Isle in the Tides series just so fits for me in the Pathfinder series, plus all those Rune wells firing up just so much grist for my mind to well up all sorts of grusome and fearsome beasts tocause havoc to the shipping and trade which of course will pull in my adveturing party. I would really like anothe coast/underwater AP or one that at least touches onsome of these subjuects perhaps further developing Magnimar and Sandpoint and other coastal towns not shown on the big map but suggested in the various descriptions I have read.
I have tried to use the sea with different groups and though there is always resistance to entering the deep dark cold waters, once they are there they all seem to have a grand time and it makes the surface just that much more fun.
You certainly have my vote to develop more of the sea.
Excellent.. It would be cool to see some of the ideas you come up with!
The sea has always intrigued me. I imagine horrors in the dark deep, sleeping in dormant tupor until awoken.
I would be as fascinated by *any* new development in Golarion, but the oceans do surround the lands. If nothing else, it'd be keen to have more things to worry about than just dire sharks and pirates in bikinis.
I was thinking about getting StormWrack to possibly beef up the ocean experience, except that I haven't had any need to have ocean sojourns in RotRL, and I trust that when they do become relevant in an AP, that the corresponding Pathfinder will provide the amazing fluff and crunch needed to enjoy it.
In Mystara, there is smelting under the sea. The heat-resistant kopru of the Sea of Dread (who aren't all that evil, and have given up brooding over the fall of their empire and gotten on with their lives) use undersea volcanic vents as forges, supplying the other aquatic cultures with metal goods.
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Wood. They use the clams for their clothing.oops. forgot to [/threadjack]
So...
since they don't smelt under the sea... What do you suppose is the coin of the realm down there where its wetter and life is so better?
Pearls? Clams? Shiny bits of corral?
Sand-dollars! duh!
Or cowrie shells, lots of societies used that even before we used domesticated cattle and blocks of salt for currencies.EDIT: Then again, the shells would still have little animals living in them...but I suppose the mermaids would eat them?