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I just wanted to let all the Paizoinians know how much I am loving the new setting.
I still lament the loss of Greyhawk but Varisia is amazing and gives me a warm fuzzy feeling that only Greyhawk could give me before.
If I had to choose between Paizo's Varisia and a WotC Greyhawk in the future, it would be a no-brainer for me.....Varisia is the one. It feels right to me and it fills the void that the lack of 3.5 support for Greyhawk left in me.
Good job Paizo and please, keep up the great work. I'll keep tossing green at you to help it along!;P
FH
Is there an equivalent to Iggwilv in Varisia? I'd really miss her if our group switched.
But it lacks the nostalgia of Greyhawk.
I also find it ironic that Paizonians lament the changes previewed in 4E yet laud the 'reimaginings' in Pathfinder.
I love new settings and new things though. Add me to the "good job, pat them on the back" list.
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Varisia is great! I love that I get to learn about the campaign world from the very beginning. Our campaigns usually take place in the Forgotten Realms, but we didn't play in that campaign from the start. Now there is so much information out there, that I found it hard to motivate myself to learn about the world. I still love FR, but I'll never be an expert. Since I'm learning about Golarion from the beginning, I feel like I'll really know it and become immersed in it.
I'm also a huge fan of Desna. I've always wished there was a goddess of dreams for my characters to worship. Great job on that one! My husband (he's RETH-Mog on the boards), is planning to run Rise of the Runelords soon. And my character will be taking the Spherewalker prestige class. I can't wait!
I'm also really enjoying the Pathfinder Journals. All this stuff is awesome. Keep it coming!
There is. We haven't revealed her name yet though, I don't think.
Well I sure do hope that filing off the serial numbers isn't going to become a trend. Going back to the title of this thread, I neither need nor want a Greyhawk clone.
Creative Director
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But it lacks the nostalgia of Greyhawk.
I also find it ironic that Paizonians lament the changes previewed in 4E yet laud the 'reimaginings' in Pathfinder.
I love new settings and new things though. Add me to the "good job, pat them on the back" list.
Hopefully it'll have the nostalgia factor in 30 years, though!
As for the changes we've done to things in Golarion... there's a difference, in my opinion. Our goblins and ogres, for example, are mechanically identical to the goblins and ogres in every other D&D world, down to and including alignment and basic ecological niche in the world. They look different and act different, but there's no changes to the crunch of either creature (with the exception, I suppose, of adding new weapons, but that doesn't impact the creature at all).
The changes that the 4th edition team is making, for example, to the succubus or the erinyes ARE crunch changes. They're fundamentally changing what those monsters do, either by changing alignment and "ecological niche" in the case of the succubus, or by removing the monster altogether (in the case of the erinyes).
There's a difference between adding new flavor to a monster to make it unique and reimagined for a game world, and adding or subtracting new mechanics to a monster to make it unusable in established game worlds.
That all said... thanks for the pat on the back! :)
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Well I sure do hope that filing off the serial numbers isn't going to become a trend. Going back to the title of this thread, I neither need nor want a Greyhawk clone.
She's not. She fills the role of the "high-level, sexy, evil witch who tampers with evil forces from beyond," but she's also going to be quite different from Iggwilv as well. The "evil" she tinkers with is unlikely to be demons, for example... or if it is, it'll be a different type of tinkering than Iggwilv.
By the same reasoning, we'll also have someone in the "Mordenkainen/Elminster/Merlin/badass wizard" role, and someone in the "Eclavdra/Matron Banre/evil lord of drow" role, and so on and so on. There's a lot of D&D iconic archetypes (call them cliches if you will) of NPCs that, I think, need to be in every game world. Golarion will have them all in one way or another, but with that "Golarion spin" like you see on the goblins and ogres and kobolds and such.
There is. We haven't revealed her name yet though, I don't think.Well I sure do hope that filing off the serial numbers isn't going to become a trend. Going back to the title of this thread, I neither need nor want a Greyhawk clone.
Don't the Runelords fill that niche? Granted, none of them have taken on the "untrustworthy patron" role, but there's room for that.
I am talking about flavor change James. The goblins and ogres of Pathfinder, and (hopefully) other monsters do feel different.
People are complaining about the flavor changes in 4E. Points of Light and the cosmology, specifically.
Changing mechanics is besides the point. If you move to 4E I'm sure your goblins will be mechanically different too.
She's not.
Good. I do not want a Greyhawk clone. This should not be the "New Greyhawk".
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I am talking about flavor change James. The goblins and ogres of Pathfinder, and (hopefully) other monsters do feel different.
People are complaining about the flavor changes in 4E. Points of Light and the cosmology, specifically.
Changing mechanics is besides the point. If you move to 4E I'm sure your goblins will be mechanically different too.
If we move to 4E, we'll use the same mechanics for goblins that 4E does, unless the 4E goblins are changed to something that's fundamentally NOT a goblin as they've existed in the past 30+ years of D&D, in which case, the 4E "goblin" isn't really a goblin at all, as far as I'm concerned.
Personally... I'm not fond of the majority of the flavor changes I've heard about 4E, but I'm quite excited and eager about the majority of the rules changes I've heard. I haven't SEEN the rules yet, though, so I can't really say one way or another how they'll impact Pathfinder. If we switch editions at all.
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By the same reasoning, we'll also have someone in the "Mordenkainen/Elminster/Merlin/badass wizard" role, and someone in the "Eclavdra/Matron Banre/evil lord of drow" role, and so on and so on. There's a lot of D&D iconic archetypes (call them cliches if you will) of NPCs that, I think, need to be in every game world. Golarion will have them all in one way or another, but with that "Golarion spin" like you see on the goblins and ogres and kobolds and such.
So the Pathfinder organization could be Golarion's spin on the Harpers and in some sense, the Iconics could be Golarion's spin on the Knight of Myth Drannor. :P
something that's fundamentally NOT a goblin as they've existed in the past 30+ years of D&D
There are many flavors of goblins, and mechanics should match flavor. I could easily see a few racial traits and feats that would be appropriate for a Pathfinder goblin that might not work for goblins in other settings.
Tradition is fine, but if I wanted to play 1st edition I would play 1st edition. Show me something that's cool AND original.
Don't just settle for a rehash, whether it's flavor or mechanics. I don't want a Greyhawk clone.
So the Pathfinder organization could be Golarion's spin on the Harpers and in some sense, the Iconics could be Golarion's spin on the Knight of Myth Drannor. :P
Varisia is the New Forgotten Realms! :P
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There's a lot of D&D iconic archetypes (call them cliches if you will) of NPCs that, I think, need to be in every game world. Golarion will have them all in one way or another, but with that "Golarion spin" like you see on the goblins and ogres and kobolds and such.
Exception for the Drizzit-Good-Drow-Ranger-Two-Scimitars-Panther cliche? ;p
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I just wanted to let all the Paizoinians know how much I am loving the new setting.
I still lament the loss of Greyhawk but Varisia is amazing and gives me a warm fuzzy feeling that only Greyhawk could give me before.
If I had to choose between Paizo's Varisia and a WotC Greyhawk in the future, it would be a no-brainer for me.....Varisia is the one. It feels right to me and it fills the void that the lack of 3.5 support for Greyhawk left in me.
Good job Paizo and please, keep up the great work. I'll keep tossing green at you to help it along!;PFH
LONG LIVE VARISIA!!!
Golarion: Land of Fantasy Cliches
(He said I could call them that, really!)
:)
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In any case, come next year, I expect to see many displaced Realms fans looking for new homes which is why I want to see Pathfinder novels, it'll help draw them in. :)
On the other hand...,
I was just thinking today that in many ways Dragonlance was the first adventure path like campaign. I actually really liked the modules. But I am only now getting to where I think I might be able to use them someday.
It was the novels that ruined it for me. Not that I disliked the novels, while I can now appreciate some of their flaws a little better, for a while they were some of my favorite books. But that was the problem. It was hard to make the Dragonlance adventure my own becuase it had already been done so well. Likewise I would have trouble playing the Company of the Ring marching the One Ring to Mordor.
If there must be Golarion novels I would advise that they be removed from the Pathfinder APs or if they must tie in, let them come out some years after the AP in question has seen some use.
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I never really got into Greyhawk - my first exposure to an official setting was the Forgotten Realms, and I played in that for years. But then I moved to creating homebrews (or more accurately, Frankensteinian conglomerations of things I liked from various sources with my own homebrewed flavor), and now it's been years since I played in the Realms.
But I am really loving Golarion, and Varisia, and Darkmoon Vale (I just wish Darkmoon Vale was closer to/part of Varisia so I wouldn't have to go off-canon). Recently, I've been getting into a lot more 1e-type inspiration, re-reading old modules and old Dungeon mags. And to me, Golarion has that feel. Maybe it's just that it's new and fresh, the same way everything in 1e was new and fresh, but I like it. I love the history, the flavor, and the reimaginings, which as James said, are completely different from the 4e mechanical changes.
I just don't want to have to wait until next year to get more info on the rest of Golarion!
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If there must be Golarion novels I would advise that they be removed from the Pathfinder APs or if they must tie in, let them come out some years after the AP in question has seen some use.
No no no, I don't want novelizations of supplement material. Original works with recognizable Pathfinder locations, npcs, and Iconics. Stories that aren't ignore by the supplements (but don't have to be relevant to the current supplements.)
More along the lines of stories of adventure in Golarion.
If the adventure is supposed to effect "the world" have it reflected in the supplements. If the adventure is supposed to be tied into the supplements, lets make sure the events are actually covered in the supplements.. not buy this supplement about this area because you know that novel-x is taking place there.. but wait hold on a second all the stuff happening right "now" in novel-x.. it's not in there, so it'll be a useless supplement when the trilogy is over.. but we won't tell you that, acknowledge that, or apologize for it.
I'm not asking, wanting, or looking for world defining or altering novels, just novels that capture the flavor and spirit of Golarion and Pathfinder that are as canon to the lore as the supplements.
I wants me some Red Planet.Word.
Red Planet is the New Spelljammer!
Huzzah!
Varisia damn sure ain't the new Eberron.
Varisia is the new Eberron! Golemworks, wand rifles and spaceships for everyone!
Now if only it could be the new Old World. I had a lot of fun playing my priest of Sigmar in Shackled City.
Little known fact… Bloodsworn Vale contains the new Smurf Village. Sorry James, it had to be said.
Now back to our regularly scheduled message board.
As a declared Eberron fan, your tastes as to coolness and originallity are somewhat questionable...
Show me something that's cool AND original.
That seems rather cold Sebastian. Why does it have to be one or the other? I happen to love Eberron too... while loving Pathfinder at the same time.
I agree with Takasi that "cool AND original" is a worthwhile goal, and I think that Paizo has performed this beautifully so far.
Then it's settled. Henceforth all previous WotC spells named after iconic wizards will be changed to:
Gargamel's smurfing smurf
That was actually meant as a joke...
Ah, my apologies then. Turns out, my Firefox joke filter was on. :D
ps, Actually, that's not true. You see, my family was killed by a pack of ellipses, and I just get so angry when I see them. XD
Is there an equivalent to Iggwilv in Varisia? I'd really miss her if our group switched.
Having stolen Iggwilv for my homebrew (I was 14, I didn't know better) I have to suggest that the answer should be 'no'. I regret how tied up my world became in something not really of my own setting. Paizo should find their own path. In the end their world will benefit more from that then in trying to force cool characters from other worlds into their setting.