| JSL |
Just finished reading part 3 of the adventure and the author comments that if the PCs take on the 12 skinsaw cultists and Ironbriar together, it is a tough EL 10 encounter.
But I'm thinking those cultists have only 12hp each and are in such a small room that a 6d6 fireball wipes them out almost automatically. The author comments that the PCs have a good chance at surprise, so I'm betting they can get that fireball off on the first activation if they want.
As for Ironbriar himself, he requires four defensive spells just to get to the published statblock and, outside a decent Ref save, has very little combat capability (offensive or defensive) at all. Yeah, his AC 23 is good, but w/o cat's and shield of faith his AC is 18 or 19 (I don't remember). His attack at +11 for 1d4 won't even scare the party wizard. In fact the suggested combat option for him - cast bestow curse - doesn't even seem like his best bet. Shouldn't he go with spontaneous cause wounds instead.
The adventure is well written and enjoyable, don't get me wrong, but after the meatgrinder of Chateau Foxglove, the skin-sawmill is looking like a laugher. Any thoughts on how to spruce it up?
I'm thinking for starters the big guy needs the Death domain for the Death Touch and more of a necro feel to his spell list doesn't hurt either. All those defensive spells look nice on paper, but with 40hp, this fool isn't living long enough to cast 'em if the PCs catch him w/ his pants down.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
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If you're worried that Ironbriar'll be a pushover, just skip ahead a few pages to the Big Bad End Gal. She more than makes up for low hp cultists.
Honestly, I wouldn't try to "spruce it up" at all. If the PCs get to feel tough now and then and run into some battles that aren't meatgrinders, they actually get to feel tough and heroic. That's good.
| JSL |
If you're worried that Ironbriar'll be a pushover, just skip ahead a few pages to the Big Bad End Gal.
Point well taken. I need to read the encounter in more detail, but I'm having trouble seeing how they get up there alive. Large base on that little top level - they'd better bring fly or climb the walls otherwise no one is getting out of the stairwell. Unless they can somehow stun her and set up before she recovers.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
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James Jacobs wrote:If you're worried that Ironbriar'll be a pushover, just skip ahead a few pages to the Big Bad End Gal.Point well taken. I need to read the encounter in more detail, but I'm having trouble seeing how they get up there alive. Large base on that little top level - they'd better bring fly or climb the walls otherwise no one is getting out of the stairwell. Unless they can somehow stun her and set up before she recovers.
The whole clocktower encounter's a perfect example of my design philosophy, in fact. I assume that PCs have access to things like fly or spider climb in this encounter, since they should be 6th level. They MIGHT even be 7th, truth be told, in which case dimension door and air walk also work.
Those who choose to run Skinsaw in a low-magic setting should be ready for the clocktower to be a lot tougher than it was intended to be, as a result.
| Cesare |
Well, that still doesn't change the fact that the leader of a notorious and ruthless assassin cult is a creampuff. I personally think his piddly 1d4 damage, 40 hp, and somewhat limited array of spells make this encounter a little too easy for a group of 6th level characters. Rather than making my group feel tough and heroic, I'd think that this encounter would be a bit of a letdown.
However, I do quite like the last boss.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
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Well, that still doesn't change the fact that the leader of a notorious and ruthless assassin cult is a creampuff. I personally think his piddly 1d4 damage, 40 hp, and somewhat limited array of spells make this encounter a little too easy for a group of 6th level characters. Rather than making my group feel tough and heroic, I'd think that this encounter would be a bit of a letdown.
However, I do quite like the last boss.
Keep in mind too that Ironbriar's hardly the leader of the Skinsaw Cult. He's the leader of the MAGNIMAR Skinsaw Cult, but they have cells opertating throughout the world. Some of them are less powrful, some more powerful.
| Niteflier |
JSL wrote:Point well taken. I need to read the encounter in more detail, but I'm having trouble seeing how they get up there alive. Large base on that little top level - they'd better bring fly or climb the walls otherwise no one is getting out of the stairwell. Unless they can somehow stun her and set up before she recovers.The whole clocktower encounter's a perfect example of my design philosophy, in fact. I assume that PCs have access to things like fly or spider climb in this encounter, since they should be 6th level. They MIGHT even be 7th, truth be told, in which case dimension door and air walk also work.
One of the questions I've had about the clocktower stems from this: In locations E2 (The third E2 specifically), the stairway is limited to the left and lower right walls. Does this show the stairway before or after the bell has fallen? And if its before, how is a party without fly or spider climb to reach the top?
| tbug |
One of the questions I've had about the clocktower stems from this: In locations E2 (The third E2 specifically), the stairway is limited to the left and lower right walls. Does this show the stairway before or after the bell has fallen? And if its before, how is a party without fly or spider climb to reach the top?
I'm okay with not figuring that out for the PCs. By the time they're that level they should have the ability to cross a sheer wall on their own. If they're not using magic then they need to break out the hammer and pitons. (Doing that while under fire might convince them of the need to either get a magic user or else stock more potions, of course.)
| Niteflier |
I'm okay with not figuring that out for the PCs. By the time they're that level they should have the ability to cross a sheer wall on their own. If they're not using magic then they need to break out the hammer and pitons. (Doing that while under fire might convince them of the need to either get a magic user or else stock more potions, of course.)
All right, yes, I have been accused of thinking for my players before, and I really shouldn't. First question still applies.
New question: The Impaler of Thorns detailed on pg. 51 and expanded in Xanesha's stat block as a large weapon dealing 2d6 damage with a 18-20 crit at x3. At first I thought this weapon to be a longspear (as I guessed from the picture of her), but a quick check of the PHB shows that while a longspear has a x3 crit damage, it possesses no range beyond a nat 20. So what kind of weapon is an Impaler of Thorns?
Addendum: Construction requires Cat's Grace and Delay Posion but the discription fits more to Fear or some such.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
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The stairs wind all the way around the inside wall of the clocktower. The map unfortunately doesn't make that totally clear. But they do.
The Impaler of Thorns is a spear; it gets its expanded threat range to 19–20 from 20 by virtue of Xanesha's Improved Critical (spear) feat.
The construction section does have an error, though; the required spells should in fact be crushing despair.
| DarkArt |
If you're worried that Ironbriar'll be a pushover, just skip ahead a few pages to the Big Bad End Gal. She more than makes up for low hp cultists.
Honestly, I wouldn't try to "spruce it up" at all. If the PCs get to feel tough now and then and run into some battles that aren't meatgrinders, they actually get to feel tough and heroic. That's good.
I also enjoy running games where not every, single, blessed battle is won by an almost TPK. If the heroic PC's are supposed to be such bad-asses, I love to see them rock on occasion.
For my situation, I'll keep it as is. I plan on using Bull Rush to full effect, and I anticiapte that some of my PC's will be softened up by the time they get to the top anyway (assuming they take the direct approach without casing the joint first).
Shisumo
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A shift in tactics can probably increase the difficulty of the boss encounter as well. As written, each floor's worth of cultists more or less fights alone; they are supposed to send a warning upstairs once a cultist dies, but it's far too easy to run a fleeing opponent down (especially by 6th level or so).
I'd suggest that a) you place a warning bell system in the corner of each floor (which should serve to foreshadow the clock tower nicely) so an alarm can be given within the space of a single action and b) that cultists above the first floor assume an invasion immediately, since there should be no one that high in the building without permission - have them sound the alarm and prepare for combat at the first sight of the PCs. Those together should at least allow Ironbriar time to cast his prebattle spells unless the PCs are careful and quiet, and if that's the case, they deserve to be rewarded for their care.
Also, don't forget that Ironbriar's reaper's mask has a built-in confusion effect (potentially quite nasty) and also gives him a +1 to damage against the vast majority of PCs. Also, his precombat buffs don't include divine favor for some reason, which is good for another +2 attack/+2 damage.
Steel Horse
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I haven't gotten my copy of Skinsaw yet, but all this talk of clocktowers puts me in mind of another memorable encounter from The Speaker in Dreams by James Wyatt. The module gets mixed reviews on Amazon, but the PC's attempting to infiltrate and fight their way to the top of a clocktower as a lair for a band of wererats and a female grimlock assasin ended up being one of the most memorable battles of that campaign.
Of course, it probably helps that I built a clocktower (complete with working clock and tinkertoy gears) with a removable roof for the final battle. Never underestimate the power of a good prop!
Steel Horse
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Do you still have this architectural wonder? Or at least a photo of it?
Sorry. No. It was several years ago.
But I remember it the structure itself was built mainly of Castillos (the coolest Lego knock-off's ever, and a small desk clock which nestled into the top to form the clock face.