Is the Azlant language still spoken? I would assume not, given the thousands of years since its fall, but then again, I can also imagine it being spoken by the Church of Aroden in modern times. I'm thinking the equivalent of Latin for the Catholic Church perhaps?
* A plot point I'm toying with for the Open Call would hinge on Azlant being a lost language, so if you guys have already decided its still spoken or known to scholars, etc... I'll have to re-work or drop that plot point, lol
Is the Azlant language still spoken? I would assume not, given the thousands of years since its fall, but then again, I can also imagine it being spoken by the Church of Aroden in modern times. I'm thinking the equivalent of Latin for the Catholic Church perhaps?
* A plot point I'm toying with for the Open Call would hinge on Azlant being a lost language, so if you guys have already decided its still spoken or known to scholars, etc... I'll have to re-work or drop that plot point, lol
On the one hand, it's been so many thousands of years since Azlant sank that I can't see the modern world having more than the faintest knowledge of its speech, less than we know about Mesopotamian languages.
On the other hand, the existence of spells like mending, tongues, speak with dead, and whatnot might provide a more vivid window into the past than anything real-world archaeology can manage...
Is the Azlant language still spoken? I would assume not, given the thousands of years since its fall, but then again, I can also imagine it being spoken by the Church of Aroden in modern times. I'm thinking the equivalent of Latin for the Catholic Church perhaps?
* A plot point I'm toying with for the Open Call would hinge on Azlant being a lost language, so if you guys have already decided its still spoken or known to scholars, etc... I'll have to re-work or drop that plot point, lol
On the one hand, it's been so many thousands of years since Azlant sank that I can't see the modern world having more than the faintest knowledge of its speech, less than we know about Mesopotamian languages.
On the other hand, the existence of spells like mending, tongues, speak with dead, and whatnot might provide a more vivid window into the past than anything real-world archaeology can manage...
And up to the last century, Aroden was still around as the living diety of his namesake church. And as Aroden was the "Last True Son of Azlant"... I dunno, he might have kept the language around for rituals or holy texts?
I'm assuming not, but I don't want to hang my plot for the Open Call on that point, and find out after I submit it that actually Azlant was spoken by every Aroden priest with a decent education as recently as the last century.
Good point. You can hear His voice booming in a priest's ear... "NO, NO, IT'S PRONOUNCED WITH A LONG A." :)
Good point. You can hear His voice booming in a priest's ear... "NO, NO, IT'S PRONOUNCED WITH A LONG A." :)
Yeah, I can see the Aroden priests using Azlant as the language they pray in for spells. Afterall, you are essentially asking for a divine favor, so you might as well be polite and speak his native language, right?
To get a definitive answer though, we'll probably have to wait until Monday or so, unless Eric, James and company are watching the boards over the weekend. (And its a nice weekend too, at least it is up the coast a bit. Enjoy that sunshine while you can, lol)
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
|
There's honestly not an answer to this question yet. I'm still working on all of the human cultures and their history, religions, etc. Languages is something we'll be tackling in about a week or so.
I can see two ways to go about this:
1) Azlanti is no longer spoken, though certain words have survived in some form or another. There does not yet exist a "rosetta stone" that allows scholars to decode ancient Azlanti, which could lead to some interesting adventures.
2) Azlanti is the root language for several human tongues, and hence forms the basis of the so-called Common Tongue.
Or some combinations thereof. I like how option one leads to a cool adventure, but I also don't like the idea of not being able to decipher clues found in the ruins of Azlant. Also, comprehend languages sort of takes the oomph out of that Rosetta Stone adventure idea anyway. Option 2 is more pedestrian, but it does give a basis for "Common," something that really requires a major historical cultural event to make any kind of sense at all.
If Azlanti is not the root language for Common, Taldan (the language of Taldor, Valeros's decadent ancient human kingdom) will be, and Azlanti will definitely be the root language of Taldan.
I understand some of these nouns might not make a lot of sense. It's getting difficult to remember what's been released to the public at this point or not.
--Erik
Thanks Eric.
I had forgotten about Comprehend Languages. Although the SRD says it only gives the literal meaning, devoid of context or other insight.
But I guess Azlanti isn't far enough removed from modern languages for this to be a big problem.
I've got an idea for a Rosetta Stone adventure where one of the languages would be totally devoid of context useful to a sane human however... ;-)
*And you answered on a Sunday too!
Reviving a very old topic here, but I just want clarity on the following:
In the Chronicles Campaign Setting, p. 21: "High Chelaxian Opera is ... performed in Ancient Azlanti".
A few pages before, however (p. 19): "The ancient Azlanti tongue has been lost for centuries, known to modern scholars only in its fragmentary written form. ... Only the seafaring elves of the Mordant Spire speak ancient Azlanti fluently."
Am I missing an (as of yet unread) link somewhere? Or it is actually contradictory?
|
Creative Director
|
Reviving a very old topic here, but I just want clarity on the following:
In the Chronicles Campaign Setting, p. 21: "High Chelaxian Opera is ... performed in Ancient Azlanti".
A few pages before, however (p. 19): "The ancient Azlanti tongue has been lost for centuries, known to modern scholars only in its fragmentary written form. ... Only the seafaring elves of the Mordant Spire speak ancient Azlanti fluently."
Am I missing an (as of yet unread) link somewhere? Or it is actually contradictory?
It is indeed contradictory. It'll be cleaned up in the coming revision to the book.
But the short version is: Azlanti is still spoken today, but it's not commonly spoken. It's akin to Latin, I guess.
Ok, thanks for the clarification.
Will there be a new (revised) print? Or simply an errata?
Edit: I think I've just found the answer in the Chronicles subforum. :)
Ok, thanks for the clarification.
Will there be a new (revised) print? Or simply an errata?
Edit: I think I've just found the answer in the Chronicles subforum. :)
Yeah, it's a new book.
The elves of the Mordant Spire speak Azlanti, right?
I see Latin as the perfect analogy to Azlant.
Ditto. A dead language to most, but still used by certain people for certain specialized things, and the root of many later languages.
No doubt some adventurers are using magic to translate an old Azlanti tome as we speak, looking for clues for their next quest.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
The elves of the Mordant Spire speak Azlanti, right?
Yes
"Numbering in the low thousands,
these gray elves are among the few fluent Azlanti speakers
in the Inner Sea region."
That said, they're pretty strange elves. I mean I don't know if they normally speak elven, but if they don't the closest anology I can think of would be Han Dynasty nobility speaking Latin.
On a related note, I've got a player whose Rise of the Runelords character keeps trying to read Thassalonian runes, first on the basis of her background, which establishes her as a longtime acquaintance of Brodert Quink, and more recently using comprehend languages.
Hard to maintain a sense of mystery about a dead language if any 1st level arcane caster can read it, so I keep stonewalling and giving out only bits and pieces. But I have no idea what I'd say if I were pressed to explain exactly what is so alien about Thassalonian that it's untranslatable even by magic.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
On a related note, I've got a player whose Rise of the Runelords character keeps trying to read Thassalonian runes, first on the basis of her background, which establishes her as a longtime acquaintance of Brodert Quink, and more recently using comprehend languages.
Hard to maintain a sense of mystery about a dead language if any 1st level arcane caster can read it, so I keep stonewalling and giving out only bits and pieces. But I have no idea what I'd say if I were pressed to explain exactly what is so alien about Thassalonian that it's untranslatable even by magic.
[technobabble]Written Thassalonian was not only a language it was a magical reinforcement of the will of the Runelords. While it might be possible to find pre-runelord Thassalonian that doesn't have this resonance, most written examples lack the magical background vibration to make it truely understandable.[/technobabble]
Comprehend languages technobabble:
Either one should be sufficient to keep colleges from having their apprentices memorizing comprehend language every morning to translate the lost languages.
|
Intelligent stuff
I completely agree. It was the exact same issue as when we were studying Koine Greek.
|
I think there are also other facets that can make Comprehend Languages difficult. Take ancient Egyptian for example. Over time glyphs changed meaning, lost meaning, or were dropped entirely. Sometimes later clerks might seek to revive glyphs that were once lost, but now they have different meanings that make no sense to the ancient version. Egyptologists still have difficulty figuring out meanings of some texts.
So if a spell provides a literal meaning without the nuances needed to understand the concepts behind the text the spell could just as easily transliterate a sentence as "The Prince (or this word could mean warrior) waded (leapt, ran, bereavement, hatred) into the river (stream, pool, lake, house of lepers) to hinder (accelerate, mentor, guard against, manipulate) the (elephant, snake, sky god, sword, monkey)."
Or the spell could just choose to transliterate as "The warrior bereavement into the house of lepers to guard against the elephant." Yeah what ever THAT means! Still a valid transliteration.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Good point Krome,
Or even worse, it might translate the intent of the writer, but the linguist will disagree.
Guy with Lingustics (Thassalonian) Hmm, this makes no sense. The living Dark hot woman moved subtle the reclining guard. What?
Comprehend language: The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.
Guy with Lingustics: That's not what it says!
Hmm, maybe another look at the lingustics skill is needed.
It might be interesting to make it a Linguistics check with the Comprehend Languages spell to see how well the caster actually understands the statement. Maybe DC 10 to understand a current language, but up to DC 20 or more for dead laguages.
Imagine that "Comprehend Languages" is the equivalent of one of the automated translation websites like babelfish.yahoo.com. Sometimes it will give a decently understandable paragraph, with the occasional strangely worded sentence, sometimes it gives complete gibberish.
I like using one autotranslation site to convert text to russian or german, then using another one to translate back to english, to give a suitably cryptic mistranslation to hand off to players who like to abuse Comprehend Languages.
|
|
oh my ... reminds me of high school.
Back then I was stupid enough to be an honest guy studying ancient greek.
I was the worse pupil of my class according to my marks for some six months ... I was honestly trying the translations with my dictionary and grammar course ... 8/20.
Bob next to me ... 18/20
After a while Nico next to me gave me the big secret : the texts we wre asked to translate were all classics ... available in bilingual editions ...
And when i bought the books I jumped to 16/20 ... and earned teacher's congrats ...
Right after that I quit this course.
|
|
Hah. Even google with modern greek will give you some jacked up translation. I was talking to someone through facebook in greek and a couple of words I wasn't clear on popped up. I copied the whole sentence through google and got "Wood falls today between police and the people in the constitution " which was "They are rioting in Constitution Square today."
oh my ... reminds me of high school.
Back then I was stupid enough to be an honest guy studying ancient greek.
I was the worse pupil of my class according to my marks for some six months ... I was honestly trying the translations with my dictionary and grammar course ... 8/20.
Bob next to me ... 18/20
After a while Nico next to me gave me the big secret : the texts we wre asked to translate were all classics ... available in bilingual editions ...
And when i bought the books I jumped to 16/20 ... and earned teacher's congrats ...
Right after that I quit this course.
You had ancient greek at your high school? What kind of school has that?