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Thought I would share a little story.
My group finally faced off against The Lady Lotus tonight, 10 sessions in to TiNH (we are unbelievably sloooow).
I was looking forward to some tumbling and sneak attacks, though I fully expected Rowyn and Gut Tugger to be killed in the end. Escape just didn't seem likely. However, the amount of total domination exerted by my players was ridiculous.
Rowyn was having her nice chat with the players. As 4/5 are CN, they were listening. However, the LN monk didn't dissapoint, and he attacked. Rowyn managed to react quickly enough to get a swing in with her rapier, only to miss. Gut Tugger had similar luck.
Then the monk slapped with a stunning fist. Rowyn failed her save, dropping her rapier and taking 10 points of damage right off the bat. (18 str monks are fun). She just stood there stunned, getting stabbed by the courtesan of the party (rogue/swashbuckler mechanically). Of course, she got sneak attack damage in due to the stunning. The monk proceeds to smack Rowyn again. Meanwhile, Gut Tugger has managed to do a little damage (I think). By the time Rowyn gets a chance to go, she has taken 17 points of damage, and is weaponless. She tries to tumble past everyone out the door to somewhere she can drink her potion and flee. I roll a 1 on the tumble check. She draws AOO's from both the courtesan and the monk, getting even closer to death. She then goes to grab her rapier to defend herself. The monk has combat reflexes and slaps her again, shattering her head against the nice lavender walls. Poor Rowyn never stood a chance.
Then the monk just grappled Gut Tugger and held him pinned while the others hacked away. This has turned into standard practice, learned from the smuggler's caves, when no had anything but daggers against the zombies.
Rather anticlimactic, I must say. Though at least Rowyn got to parry some improved feints and throw out a few lines.
Yeah, Rowyn's more than a little bit fragile. Though it could have been worse for you - my PCs let loose the earth elemental from the gem in the Lotus Dragons' hq - imagine how one-sided that was! I had to give Rowyn a level 3 fighter and level 2 cleric as elite backup, just so she'd last longer than a round or so.
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went very similar to my game.
they wild empathied the croc from the crucible (spending like all his action points on it) and brought him along through the bedroom, ambush chambers, et al.
they named him Bitey.
so, come the fight with Rowyn, the cleric is dead (sneak attacked by training dummies, like 4 of em) and everyone is slightly damaged, but mostly ok.
kick in the door, Rowyn sits up, tries to get a word in, they unleash bitey.
he goes for gut tugger, biting, grappling, and now the dragon's out of the fight.
monk goes, dashes right for rowyn (whos just managed to arm herself and pull out her potion, she can see where this is going) hits, grapples.
next round, he goes before her, disarms her of the potion, and proceeds to pummel her unconscious.
she later got away and harrassed them as written.
-the hamster
(oh yeah, GT got sold to the arena, since noone knew he was a dragon)
went very similar to my game.
they wild empathied the croc from the crucible (spending like all his action points on it) and brought him along through the bedroom, ambush chambers, et al.
they named him Bitey.
so, come the fight with Rowyn, the cleric is dead (sneak attacked by training dummies, like 4 of em) and everyone is slightly damaged, but mostly ok.
kick in the door, Rowyn sits up, tries to get a word in, they unleash bitey.
he goes for gut tugger, biting, grappling, and now the dragon's out of the fight.
monk goes, dashes right for rowyn (whos just managed to arm herself and pull out her potion, she can see where this is going) hits, grapples.
next round, he goes before her, disarms her of the potion, and proceeds to pummel her unconscious.
she later got away and harrassed them as written.
-the hamster
(oh yeah, GT got sold to the arena, since noone knew he was a dragon)
Rowyn would likely it seems go to the ends of the earth to retrieve Gut Tugger before gunning for your PCs again, imo. Frankly, I am surprised - I don't have TINH at my fingertips, so I don't recall if that croc is Medium or Large. (If Large, he shouldn't have even fit down the hallway, although I don't believe they would have a Large foe in the first chapter of the AP on principle.)
Mine did the simple approach - although they did not get to dominate her and Gut Tugger so easily as yours and the OP's. The confining terrain worked to Rowyn's advantage, coupled with GT keeping them jammed up in the doorway. The players simply fragged them instead, although she and ol' chompy-foot did in one character before being hacked into kibble.
Rowyn would likely it seems go to the ends of the earth to retrieve Gut Tugger before gunning for your PCs again, imo. Frankly, I am surprised - I don't have TINH at my fingertips, so I don't recall if that croc is Medium or Large. (If Large, he shouldn't have even fit down the hallway, although I don't believe they would have a Large foe in the first chapter of the AP on principle.)
Mine did the simple approach - although they did not get to dominate her and Gut Tugger so easily as yours and the OP's. The confining terrain worked to Rowyn's advantage, coupled with GT keeping them jammed up in the doorway. The players simply fragged them instead, although she and ol' chompy-foot did in one character before being hacked into kibble.
The crocodile is medium sized, unless you make it a large one if scaling the adventure (which I did in my game). Like you say, if it was the large variety, it would not have fit down those narrow tunnels. I also added levels to my Rowyn and advanced Gut Tugger, but didn't get to use them in a fight because my players decided to join the her.
I believe a scaled croc at Large size can move down 5' wide hallways using the squeezing rules.
From the SRD
Squeezing
In some cases, you may have to squeeze into or through an area that isn’t as wide as the space you take up. You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty to AC.
When a Large creature (which normally takes up four squares) squeezes into a space that’s one square wide, the creature’s miniature figure occupies two squares, centered on the line between the two squares. For a bigger creature, center the creature likewise in the area it squeezes into.
A creature can squeeze past an opponent while moving but it can’t end its movement in an occupied square.
To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space’s width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can’t attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a -4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
Cheers!
LoL - thanks Hired Sword.
Now, I have to hope that my "group 2" players for the STAP don't go and do this to me.
Well, then again, I suppose I'd have to settle for liberally dousing the self-propelled luggage with alchemists' fire ...
Yeah, I'd suggest that if future DM's want the battle to be a little more entertaining to increase the size of the rooms. It just doens't leave enough room for her to do things that the tactics suggest.
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a little clarification
yes, the croc was medium....advanced to 5 HD, if i recall correctly. just below Large/Huge Sized.
The reason Rowyn didn't get a chance to get GT back from the arena were 2-fold. 1: she was knocked out quite quickly, and had no idea where (or if he was even still alive) they had taken him.
2: She was drugged on Dreamlily and something else (forget which) and "given" to a denizen of (i believe) Shadowshore by the rogue, along with a bunch of drugs and some gold. As i remember it, the player specifically said "I don't care what he does with her, so long as he keeps her out of sight."
so, she was a little indisposed to wreak vengeance for some time...and then they were leaving on the Wyvern.
-the hamster
a little clarification
yes, the croc was medium....advanced to 5 HD, if i recall correctly. just below Large/Huge Sized.
The reason Rowyn didn't get a chance to get GT back from the arena were 2-fold. 1: she was knocked out quite quickly, and had no idea where (or if he was even still alive) they had taken him.
2: She was drugged on Dreamlily and something else (forget which) and "given" to a denizen of (i believe) Shadowshore by the rogue, along with a bunch of drugs and some gold. As i remember it, the player specifically said "I don't care what he does with her, so long as he keeps her out of sight."
so, she was a little indisposed to wreak vengeance for some time...and then they were leaving on the Wyvern.
-the hamster
*Chuckling* I applaud your players' ruthlessness. I would assume they are a tad disqualified from Exalted Feats now ... ^_^
Besides, she can always crop up later in the AP at your liesure ... my Rowyn will have to come back from being bisected from the top of her head to her waist, which is going to be a tad more difficult to arrange at my end ...
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Four PC's
Darfallen Monk
Human Sorcerer/Rogue
Human Wizard
Seacliff Dwarf Cleric of Zilchus
The fight with Rowyn and Gut Tugger was a humorous event for us, the entire fight lasted almost eleven rounds of combat with very little damage. There were more "1"s rolled in that fight than in three sessions combined. No one hit anyone for about three rounds. They successfully hit Rowyn with a Ray of Enfeeblement and Cause Fear but had her corned behind her desk so she was trying to fight her way out most of the way. When she tried to use the Potion of Gaseous Form our Sorcerer grappled her, pinned her, and covered her mouth up then the Cleric used some Manacles from the Training Room to keep her held as they gagged her.
Our Monk beat poor little gut tagger to a pulp after Rowyn was down. Using her Wand of Animate Dead, the Wizard animated the critter as a skeleton and now uses it as his little pet in his house to guard stuff. It's coming on the Sea Wyvern for the journey.
-Jason
*Chuckling* I applaud your players' ruthlessness. I would assume they are a tad disqualified from Exalted Feats now ... ^_^
Besides, she can always crop up later in the AP at your liesure ... my Rowyn will have to come back from being bisected from the top of her head to her waist, which is going to be a tad more difficult to arrange at my end ...
Fully agree, -hamsters players seem rather nefarious and "morally flexible". But looking back on how my group cursed when she surrendered - and then being forced to hand her over to Sasserine's legal system (oh so incorruptible.... )
After her poisonous resurfacing (she had actually infiltrated the crew as one of the "colonists" ) Rowyn was made the governeress and sole humanoid inhabitant of a small, monkey-filled island very much "off" the known trading routes ( in the Mist Archipelago ).
The characters are expecting her to surface again and put a "lesser geas" on her not to leave said island "until she had witnessed a solar eclipse from its shores", in order to hamper her some. They believe that will stop her coming after them.... ( little do they know and hence don't fear the powers of undeath and revenancy, muahahahaha !).
Alternatively,I consider her turning up later in scuttlecove, having been recruited by the Crimson Fleet or even more fun, as a thrall of Malcanteth or as a succubus in her retinue
I'm thinking of having the Vanthus in Divided Ire collect some of his old girlfriends as undead minions, since he seems to be the type who would want some princesses to go with Lavinia, his queen. That would help with his issue with hp underperformance.
In the first fight with Rowyn, she and Gut Tugger unfortunately were brutally crushed, even though they were moved into a room with more space, had five normal Lotus Dragon survivors as backup, and had a living Zhanther (bugbear Swordsage 2) as a bodyguard. Rowyn and Gut Tugger did not succeed on a single attack roll the entire fight, mostly due to the obscene AC shared by the majority of the party. They did not kill her, however; they turned who over to the City Watch, who she bribed to let her go.
After they dealt with that issue, though, they decided to attack the Riedran Embassy (Scarlet Brotherhood equivalent). They murdered almost everyone inside, from the officers to the clerical workers, leaving only two survivors, both of whom were 'accidentally' allowed to see one of the PCs disguised as Rowyn's sister. The Riedrans responded predictably, so Rowyn's family were all killed and her estate burned to the ground.
So now Rowyn is on the Sea Wyvern with an arguably justifiable reason to hate the PCs. They haven't realized that they have someone on the ship who is trying to kill them (in spite of the mephit incident and the arsenic incident, even) but they are bound to figure it out by next session at the latest, since she's going to try the midnight tryst incident next. I took the liberty of adding her little sister's fire-blackened skull to her list of possessions, but hopefully she'll be a little more challenging this time around.
GL Koboldlord, they sound like they deserve some backlash. Obviously took the "morally shady" flavour of the Eberron setting to heart
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*Chuckling* I applaud your players' ruthlessness. I would assume they are a tad disqualified from Exalted Feats now ... ^_^
Besides, she can always crop up later in the AP at your liesure ... my Rowyn will have to come back from being bisected from the top of her head to her waist, which is going to be a tad more difficult to arrange at my end ...
Fully agree, -hamsters players seem rather nefarious and "morally flexible".
hehehehe
yes, they are quite "efficient" even when playing as good characters (and Z, the rogue, was CN at the time she got rid of Rowyn. It should be noted, too, that she is a changeling, and ran around as Rowyn for some time after locking her up. In fact, the only reason she kept her alive was to milk her for information to more easily impersonate her in the city.
Later, Angelo (their earlier ally) and Heldrath Kellani set up the party for an assassination attempt, which they foiled quite nicely. The only casualty was Z's cohort, who was running around looking like Z.
-the hamster
This title is so appropriate. Rowyn & Guttugger went up against 4 pcs, 1 half orc, a cleric, druid and a rogue. Rowyn was able to get only 24 hp of damage while the pcs did about 60-70 hp of damage on the two of them. I had to give her about 20 more hp just to prevent her from dying in the 2nd round (of course the pcs do not know about this)and thus making this a very boring battle. The main damage was from the half orc barbarian who raged while under bull strength and carrying a 2H axe who crit and rolled high for damage which resulted in about 40 hp of damage. And since the 40 hp damage was near the end of the combat, I could not fake her escape and so she will not be showing at in SWW. I'll probably replace Rowyn with her mom or perhaps a twin sister.
I have 7 PCs + one riding dog. I expanded the size of Rowyn's room and added two thieves to the mix. My party also fell for the "torturer's" ruse (I forget his name), and brought him along all the way to the end. They listened to Rowyn for a bit, refused her offer, and she signalled the attack. At that moment, the "torturer," who was at the back the whole time, playing the role of a terrified silk merchant, got a surprise round on the human scout 3 and starting whacking away.
Everyone ran forward. One thief dropped in a one round. Rowyn reanimated him. The rest happened fast - the cleric turned the zombie thief. The duskblade/wizard than did a quick transpose spell to get the scout away from the "torturer." The cleric dropped him in two rounds with the help of the scout. Gut Tugger fell fast due to an amazing spear crit rolled by the druid - who then did the same thing to Rowyn.