I know each adventure path is designed to take characters from 1st to 15th level or so and then the next adventure path is designed for you to start over again with new 1st level characters. However my group doesn't necessarily play like everyone else - because if I ask them to start over with new 1st level characters they will howl. So I have several questions I'd like to get the boards input on.
1) How would you get around this problem (please no tell 'em to lump it suggestions, I'm looking for a solution that will appease everybody)?
2) Do other groups have this same attitude?
3) Does Pathfinder ever envision an adventure path that say starts at 15th level?
I have some small hope that 4e might solve some of these problems but it would be nice to hear how other GMs might have handled this situation in the past.
Thanks.
Bump...Can a guy get a little help here ;-).
I'd really like to hear some other peoples strategies if anyone has dealt with this situation. Thanks.
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Well one campaign I'm in gets around this by having over 10 years of game time. They've used their campaigns to develop the Pomarj in Greyhawk, even building their own city. The high level characters are movers and shakers there. We occasionally come and play them. Currently it's been in Maure Castle (found in the pages of Dungeon mag, a 15+ level deadly dungeon). There was another game we ran where we were all followers of those high level characters. An item could be passed down to the new character and we occasionally sought guidance from the high level characters.
So theres a few things to think about.
1) How would you get around this problem (please no tell 'em to lump it suggestions, I'm looking for a solution that will appease everybody)?
I would try to find adventures that take PCs from 15-20 or higher and fit it in to the campaign. It isn't easy and may require some work (but you probably have at least a year until they reach 15). Some of the GameMastery modules are going to be high level, so that might be helpful.
2) Do other groups have this same attitude?
Yes, my group hates 1st level and feels that at 10th level they are just getting started. It's a conflict, because I prefer low to mid-level adventures. I'm having a hard time to convince them to do RotRL.
3) Does Pathfinder ever envision an adventure path that say starts at 15th level?
I would imagine they would consider it once they've seen 4.0 and plan to use it.
Don't know if any of this helps. Good luck.
1) How would you get around this problem (please no tell 'em to lump it suggestions, I'm looking for a solution that will appease everybody)?
Maybe one way would be to have your players actually roll up one or two additional characters for the next AP...i.e., in addition to the ones from the previous AP? That way, they could bring along a new character through the low-level parts, then hand off the adventure to the higher level characters when it becomes too much for them. Even so, the lower-level guys would have provided their contribution to ending the threat. But the higher-level guys would still get to come off the bench and continue affecting the world around them.
If you don't take some kind of route along those lines, you'll wind up having to adjust every adventure's encounters to be more challenging for your players. Or, you may just have to jump into the next AP midstream, rather than trying to run them through the early parts. That doesn't mean the early parts won't matter to you as the GM. You'd still have to read through them to determine what the bad guys have managed to achieve as the timeline has progressed without anyone to stop them. But you could do it if you put in enough work to make the necessary adjustments.
2) Do other groups have this same attitude?
I've heard of other groups having such an attitude. Frankly, none of mine ever have. There's two reasons why. When I'm forming a playing group, I generally look for like-minded players whose playing styles match-up reasonably well with mine. And, I tend to communicate very clearly up front that this will be a story-oriented campaign. As such, there's a beginning, a middle, and an end. They're all co-authors in the story, because how they choose to mold and shape their characters' reactions to things will determine very key parts of the adventure. In addition, they will be the ones determining their own character's growth over the course of the story.
Usually, my players jump at the chance to show some kind of change in their character as a result of going through the adventure. And, they embrace the idea of an end-game for that character. When the story is over, it's over. And each smaller adventure that makes up the larger campaign are the individual books that made up the life-spanning story of their characters. Then, when we're done, we start over with a new story to tell...and a new set of characters to express it.
3) Does Pathfinder ever envision an adventure path that say starts at 15th level?
I believe the Paizo staff indicated it's not out of the realm of possibility...especially with 4th edition soon covering levels 1-30 in the near future. However, they also pointed out that the low- to mid-level ranges (i.e., up to about 15th level) is where most gaming groups play. So, to appeal to the largest audience possible...and to build the strongest customer base, possible...they're going to do a lot more APs under the 15th level marking point as opposed to past it.
Even so, I wouldn't be surprised to see an AP that starts at 5th and goes up to 20th...or 10th through 25th...and so on. It doesn't even have to be a 15-level progression. They've said multiple times, they'll start the PCs at whatever level seems appropriate for the story of a particular AP, and they'll end it on whatever level seems appropriate as well. So, there could be an AP that only goes from 4th to 16th, for instance. Or 8th to 17th. And so on.
Hope that helps,
--Neil
Creative Director
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I'm fairly certain that eventually we'll do an Adventure Path that starts at higher level than 1st. And starting one at 15th or thereabouts also makes sense since it's where our first 2 will be ending. We won't be doing this for a long while yet, though. AND: If we DO switch to 4th edition... who knows how many levels we'll do in a six-part adventure path? We haven't seen the rules yet, but I do hear that 4th will support play all the way up to 30th.
I know each adventure path is designed to take characters from 1st to 15th level or so and then the next adventure path is designed for you to start over again with new 1st level characters. However my group doesn't necessarily play like everyone else - because if I ask them to start over with new 1st level characters they will howl. So I have several questions I'd like to get the boards input on.
.
1) How would you get around this problem (please no tell 'em to lump it suggestions, I'm looking for a solution that will appease everybody)?
Well, depends on what you view as your problem. If the problem is that the adventures don't go over 15th level, you may have to work some time to develop a good story line in the campaign setting yourself. As has been pointed out in other posts, there aren't many creatures in the MM of CR 15 and higher, so I wish you luck with that.
I myself have always let my players know I plan on having them start over around 16th level (its not a hard set number, as I am sure there will be loose plot threads to tie up) I find it hard to DM a challenging plot at those levels without bringin in some extraplanar bad guys, which I dislike doing.The Pathfinder modules appear (based on only one issue mind you) to have enough plot hooks and threads to give some ideas to develop into stories of your own.
If your problem is instead, convincing your players to start over, your best bet is to ask them what they would like for their characters. If a character is seeking vengance, let them have it, if the character is seeking to wright a past wrong, let them do it. If they want to establish a township, give them one. In short, when it is time for them to retire, let them retire in style. My campaign is littered with high level NPCs who were previously PCs from various players. Nothing helps ease the pain of retiring a character like a grand send-off.
2) Do other groups have this same attitude?
I can't say... I've always had the policy of retiring at ~ 16th level, so my players go into the campaign knowing that. They plan for retirement as early as 12th level.
I can say I am probably one of the few on our group who ENJOY playing from 1st level. Most others prefer to start at least at 3rd or 4th level.
3) Does Pathfinder ever envision an adventure path that say starts at 15th level?
I would say that eventually they will do so, but that is just personal speculation.
Hope any of that helps.
If you have them, I'd check out old issues of Dungeon, look for high level modules, find some that you like abd can fit into the Pathfinder campaign world. Next set some hooks for these adventures towards the end of the AP.