Just got my first Pathfinder issue and Player's Guide yesterday.
I have to say I'm very impressed with the quality. Haven't read through it yet, but flipping through it to comment on the content material, but it looked very good. Even the Player's Guide cover came in a heavy cardboard cover. I'm also very pleased it came in a hard cardboard package as often times in the past, our mailman bends and stuffs magazines into our mail box.
But I'm still having a hard time trying to justify the price every month and will likely not be able to continue it as a subscription, and I'm disappointed by that.
I'm sure this has been discussed, but as nice as Pathfinder is, I (and I'm sure others would too) wouldn't mind sacrificing the thick glossy paper if it meant the price is reduced. It would be more affordable to more people and you might actually get more sales that way.
I agree. I don't know how much of the cost is related to the higher quality cover and pages, but that was an argument used by the Paizoids when they originally announced the product to explain the higher price tag.
Not only am I poor and willing to receive cheaper quality materials if it means saving a few books, but I'm not 100% sure that the higher quality material isn't a detriment. I don't have a hard copy in my hands to see for myself, but I've found glossy paper harder to read because of the shine and I'll wind up breaking the spine of the book anyway during my struggles to get the pages to lay flat.
My uneducated take on it is that the higher cost went to elements that won't actually enhance game play.
For my own part, I just plan on buying the .pdf version and printing it out at the office after everyone goes home (shhhh). I'm actually convinced that $14 is a reasonable price to pay for 90 pages of quality content. PLUS I'll have it electronically so I can make handouts for my gang.
I'm also very pleased it came in a hard cardboard package as often times in the past, our mailman bends and stuffs magazines into our mail box.
Your mail carrier isn't as creative as mine, apparently. Or just more literate.
But I'm still having a hard time trying to justify the price every month and will likely not be able to continue it as a subscription, and I'm disappointed by that.
I'm sure this has been discussed, but as nice as Pathfinder is, I (and I'm sure others would too) wouldn't mind sacrificing the thick glossy paper if it meant the price is reduced. It would be more affordable to more people and you might actually get more sales that way.
Personally, I love the look and feel of Pathfinder. It's much more durable than a magazine and the high quality of the paper and printing alone makes up for the price difference, to say nothing of the excellent contents. Compare against the cost of two Gamemastery modules and the value becomes apparent.
Just got my first Pathfinder issue and Player's Guide yesterday.
I have to say I'm very impressed with the quality. Haven't read through it yet, but flipping through it to comment on the content material, but it looked very good. Even the Player's Guide cover came in a heavy cardboard cover. I'm also very pleased it came in a hard cardboard package as often times in the past, our mailman bends and stuffs magazines into our mail box.But I'm still having a hard time trying to justify the price every month and will likely not be able to continue it as a subscription, and I'm disappointed by that.
I'm sure this has been discussed, but as nice as Pathfinder is, I (and I'm sure others would too) wouldn't mind sacrificing the thick glossy paper if it meant the price is reduced. It would be more affordable to more people and you might actually get more sales that way.
Nope, I like the quality and the fact that my subscription comes out to $14 a month for both the hard copy AND the PDF is a frickin' steal compared to WOTC pricing.
Please keep the thick glossy paper. This is a hobby not a charity, if people can't afford the print copy then just buy the PDF and print it out themselves. I used to be a poor, broke student at one time so I feel peoples pain but I just did without the product if I couldn't afford it. If I had the option of getting a PDf back then I totally would have but now that I have the opportunity to get quality product I pay for it. If I didn't feel like it was worth it I wouldn't. SImple as that.
Keep up the quality product Paizo and thanks.
Actually, it's not so much the materials they've used on Pathfinder that dictates the price, it's what's missing from the product: advertising.
I'm pretty sure when the material quality vs price issue was brought up by Paizo staff during the transition, it was because someone compared the price per page in Dungeon/Dragon to Pathfinder. And since the materials in an actual book are higher quality than a magazine, they naturally are more expensive.
*And the lack of advertising is a huge chunk of the price difference as well, as others have noted.
Personally, I'm happy with the price. Obviously I wouldn't mind if it was cheaper, but for ~$20 including shipping, I'm getting an adventure that should take 6-8 weeks to play out (we play around 3 hours a week) along with supporting articles and background material. Plus the PDF.
When considering the cost vs how much time I'll spend reading and using it, Pathfinder probably ranks right up, right behind the core 3 books. (PHB, MM, DMG)
*And I consider the actual Pathfinder Player's Guide to be a steal at $2.
I don't have a hard copy in my hands to see for myself, but I've found glossy paper harder to read because of the shine and I'll wind up breaking the spine of the book anyway during my struggles to get the pages to lay flat.
You'll have to judge for yourself when you get your print copy (as you admit), but I don't find these to be a problem.
"Glossy" is a bit strong to describe the pages of Pathfinder. I would call the covers glossy. But the pages are a far cry from the "dull" pages most magazines use.
The pages are heavy enough that the book does pretty good staying open, and the covers even have scoring approximately 1/4 inch from the binding to relieve stress on the binding itself.
I'm just guessing, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you see it.
Chief Technical Officer
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Actually, it's not so much the materials they've used on Pathfinder that dictates the price, it's what's missing from the product: advertising.That... and the fact that we're printing much fewer copies of Pathfinder than of a magazine, which means it costs more per each to print.
...and we're spreading out the art, editorial and development costs over fewer units, too. We think that reducing the paper quality would reduced the perceived value for most customers more than it would reduce the cover price.
I'm just guessing, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you see it.
Wow. I'm ready to buy into this. I understood all the factors of fewer units and no ads (these were all things brought up the last time I complained about the cost), but it sounds like it's not as much a detriment to actual use as I'd thought.
Unfortunately, I'm on too tight a budget to subscribe. It really does come down to buying the hardcopy OR the .pdf. Despite the glowing picture you paint of it, I'm still going to have to go with the .pdf for both cost and utility.
I guess it's their own fault for offering it electronically. Without that option, I suspect I could easily be swayed by what really does sound like a great value.
Unfortunately, I'm on too tight a budget to subscribe. It really does come down to buying the hardcopy OR the .pdf.
But if you subscribe, don't you get both?
Unfortunately, I'm on too tight a budget to subscribe. It really does come down to buying the hardcopy OR the .pdf.But if you subscribe, don't you get both?
Yes, and that's a strong an argument as any. I think it was Vic who pointed out that a subscription cost covered the .pdf and you'd get the hard copy free for just the cost of shipping.
In the end, though, I just can't commit to $20 being charged to me at a random date in any given month.
I was a little worried of subscribing, the cost was a bit more than I wanted to pay each month, the cost of one Pathfinder is equal to six issues of my other game magazine.
But I'm glad I took the took the chance. I am very satisfied that I am getting my money's worth. Quality wise Pathfinder is top notch and I 90+ pages of game material, plus the players guide and the PDF all for 17 dollars and change.
When I consider the price after receiving my first copy, I just reconciled it with those mentioned in previous posts:
1) Included pdf
2) NO ADVERTISEMENTS
3) Very high quality stock
4) Limited printing
5) Its not only part of a complete adventure path, but it includes various aspects to the campaign setting as well
. . . which then leads to my other thought . . .
It feels like a game supplement in many ways as compared to a pulp throw-away. It feels like something I want in as fine a condition as possible because I will always be referring to it even after the actual adventure is played out. I'm glad I won't have to be as concerned when our cats sit on it, or maybe an accidental spill gets on the book. If this was a Dungeon or Dragon, any minor damage and wear-and-tear will be more (and, unfortunately, has been) more substantial. These books seem to fit right next to gaming books instead of the magazine rack.
When also considering a subscription induced 30% savings, I think this sweetens the deal for me.
I think the only possible setback would be if the campaign setting/ particular campaign story arc in particular fails to hook someone, then that would mean waiting for the next story to begin 6 or so issues afterwards. Even then, though, there are the "one-shot" adventures out there to better serve those wanting to avoid a whole story arc. I had my own doubts when I learned that Psionics wouldn't get support, and I was initially antipathetic towards getting sucked into a multi-issue campaign setting that I assumed wouldn't appeal to me in the end. I think, though, that if I have been won over by the dazzling creativity and energy that has earned my enthusiastic interest with it despite the lack of psionics, I have confidence that even this possible setback isn't one for Paizo to have troubled sleep over.
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We think that reducing the paper quality would reduced the perceived value for most customers more than it would reduce the cover price.
From my experience working on a magazine in college, I think this is a key point. I agree with it a hundred percent. People really perceive paper value different than its cost.
I think Pathfinder is priced pretty well. If I were to pick it up in the store without knowing its cost, I would immediately think $20. The final issue of Dungeon I perceived at $8-10 (and it really does have a lower ad amount than similarly sized magazines), lower than the shelf price of the magazine. Something the quality of Dungeon is easy to beat up/tear and in my house is less likely to last over time.
As a subscriber, I feel that I'm getting a really good deal on Pathfinder. It is physically durable; it has high production values - i.e., the content and quality are there; I get an electronic copy that I can archive/use for notes; I'm getting it at discount over the bookstore (slight, but every bit helps). And like DarkArt mentioned above, the campaign setting information makes it feel more like a supplement and something I will want to keep around.
I used to do a bunch of d20 reviews... Anyways, the quality is very nice, the art works thought there are several different art styles. The adventure is well-written and the dungeons do not seem to be overly long/repetitious. The magic items are cool, and it seems like they are targeting having a certain number of "unique" ones per book. The items don't necessarily have a unique power, but it's a combo of powers. Monsters are cool, fights are cool. Good "feel" to the adventures. The print quality is very high for the size of the adventure.