Arg! You templated the crap out of it!
Ok, can you give us his base stats without the drowned template? Especially his base Con? Please? Pretty please?
Arg! You templated the crap out of it!
Ok, can you give us his base stats without the drowned template? Especially his base Con? Please? Pretty please?
I'm trying to get my hands on an issue from a store at the moment. I plan on reverse engineering the demon once I get my hands on it. I have the Drowned template and the Miniatures Handbook where the prestige class is listed so I can reverse engineer it no problem.
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Ok, can you give us his base stats without the drowned template? Especially his base Con? Please? Pretty please?
If I remember correctly, the back of the Fiendish Codex I lists the Klurichir (and other 3.0 demons from MMII and Fiend Folio) at its adjusted Challenge Rating of 17. As I understand it, taking the Klurichir at its listing in Fiend Folio (and doing away with its gate ability) presents a monster with a Challenge Rating of 17; same Con, same other abilities, same attacks, etc. Prehaps I am incorrect, but I think that's what the Codex says.
Well the problem with the 3.0 Klurichir was its attack routine. It was jumbled up badly. It had 4 arms, but only made two attacks with those arms, the description for its improved grab, pincer attack, and vorpal bite were all screwy, etc.
If anything, I want to see the 3.5 klurichir to see how the Dungeon editors handled that mess. Take a look at it in Fiend Folio and you'll see where the confusion is at.
We didn't really do as much to it as one might think, actually. I'm pretty sure the only big change we made was to reign back his summon tanar'ri powers and tone his CR down to a base of 17 or something like that.
His Strength score looks pretty high for just levels, template, and magic to take care of. Higher Strength and Constitution seem to be big for 3.5 upgrades.
Hence, I humbly request his base stats if you are legally able to provide them.
We didn't really do as much to it as one might think, actually. I'm pretty sure the only big change we made was to reign back his summon tanar'ri powers and tone his CR down to a base of 17 or something like that.His Strength score looks pretty high for just levels, template, and magic to take care of. Higher Strength and Constitution seem to be big for 3.5 upgrades.
Hence, I humbly request his base stats if you are legally able to provide them.
Well, it's increased by 4 levels so it has 1 ability score point to place where it likes. The Drowned One template grants it +6 Strength,
-4 Dexterity, +4 Wisdom and no Constitution. The 4 levels of Warchief grant it the ability to enter a frenzy that grants it an additional +4 enhancement bonus to Strength.
We didn't really do as much to it as one might think, actually. I'm pretty sure the only big change we made was to reign back his summon tanar'ri powers and tone his CR down to a base of 17 or something like that.
Here's the problem with the Fiend Folio klurichir that I hope you can tell us was addressed in the magazine or if you can address it here for us?:
ATTACK ROUTINE: It has 4 claws, but no where in the stat block does it give its claw damage. It only gives the attacks it makes with one battleaxe. Legally, it should be able to make 4 attacks with the battleaxe and 3 claw attacks as a full attack action.
It then states OR two pincer attacks. But it should be allowed to make 2 pincer attacks along with its full attack. However, according to the wording, it's saying it can either make an attack with its axe and claws OR its pincers, not both.
It then says it can also make a bite attack if it has you grappled by its pincers, but it doesn't give the damage for the bite attack nor does it give an attack bonus for the bite attack. Is the bite attack an extra secondary natural weapon it can use, or can it only attack with a bite if you've been grappled by its pincers? Does it deal automatic bite damage or does it make an attack roll?
It says it can make a spine attack as a ranged attack, but it doesn't say what action it takes to make a spine attack. Is it a free action or standard action? Can it use its spines as part of a full attack? It also doesn't say the range of the spine attack anywhere.
The klurichir's full attack as seen in Dungeon #150 is:
Battleaxe +X/+X/+X/+X and 2 pincers +X OR
Slam +X and 2 pincers +X.
He can also start a grapple for free when he hits with a pincer attack. If he wins he establishes a hold and can make vorpal pincer attacks in the next round. He can hold victims in his maw while taking none of the standard grappling penalties.
The klurichir can rend instead of grappling if he hits with both pincers.
He can fire his spines as a standard action. He has a TON of spells and SLAs though, so its a desperate move.
The only thing that is somewhat confusing are the Spines attack. Are they a standard action now or can they be used with a full attack. Also, what is their range?Thanks.
That's not the only thing. It has 4 arms, the description stating that they all end in claws. Yet there's no claw damage and...it doesn't have an attack routine with the other 3 arms, just the one holding the battleaxe.
That's not the only thing. It has 4 arms, the description stating that they all end in claws. Yet there's no claw damage and...it doesn't have an attack routine with the other 3 arms, just the one holding the battleaxe.
The only thing that is somewhat confusing are the Spines attack. Are they a standard action now or can they be used with a full attack. Also, what is their range?Thanks.
It used to have both Multiattack and Multiweapon Fighting, which implies that all those arms are for more than decoration.
If Gromsfed is an elite Klurichir, why doesn't his stat block say this?
I did the conversion on the stat block for this guy, we were under the gun at the time and getting it done was of primary consideration.
I can try and answer some of the questions that have been brought up here.
I believe that Gromsfed's ability scores are pretty close to the Fiend Folio klurichur once the elite array and drowned one template modifiers are taken away.The attack routine looks cleared up. A full attack includes both the battle axe and the pincers, as opposed to battle axe or pincers. I believe that Gromsfed is also using the battleaxe two-handed, although it looks like someone forgot to add the +3 bonus from the battleaxe to the damage. The line about the bite attack is also gone. Improved grapple has been condensed into the improved grab entry. Vorpal pincers' threat range has decreased. It was once 18-20 and now is 19-20. Summon demons has been scaled back.
The only thing that is somewhat confusing are the Spines attack. Are they a standard action now or can they be used with a full attack. Also, what is their range?
His stats should be right there, since I started with the elite array and went from there. (Although I did it backwards from what James said, I started with the array and added his racial modifiers as bonuses, rather than adding the array to his racial modifiers. Depending on where the odd/even stats were, that can make for a 1 point difference.)
It looks like I screwed up on the battleaxe damage and forgot the +3 weapon, right on there.
The spines attack should be a standard action, just like any other separate line in the attack entry, but I never noticed that there was no range given in the origional stat block. If I were to go back and do it now, I'd give them the same range as a manticore's spines (180 feet with no range increment).
That's not the only thing. It has 4 arms, the description stating that they all end in claws. Yet there's no claw damage and...it doesn't have an attack routine with the other 3 arms, just the one holding the battleaxe.
The reason why it doesn't have claw attacks is that there was nothing in the origional stat block that implied that it should have claw attacks. Generally, when I get a monster like this, I try and stay as close to the origional stat block as I can, both to keep the power level about the same, and to avoid confusion from having multiple versions of the same monster that are drastically different. That means I look at the stat block and go from there.
It used to have both Multiattack and Multiweapon Fighting, which implies that all those arms are for more than decoration.
At the time, I did think it was somewhat odd that he had Multiweapon Fighting and 4 arms but only the Battleaxe and pincers. In fact, I seriously considered giving him several other weapons to go with his Multiweapon fighting feat, but as it turned out, the art had already been ordered with just the battleaxe, so I made that 2-handed and changed the feat instead.
I never really considered giving him claws, because, as I said, nothing in the origional stat block implied that he could make claw attacks. The Multiattack feat applies to his pincer attacks, so that why that stayed. The slam attack comes from the drowned one template.
If Gromsfed is an elite Klurichir, why doesn't his stat block say this?
Any NPC that has levels in a PC class or prestige class (warchief in this case) automatically gets the elite array with no increase in CR. The only time we would actually say "elite Klurichir" is if the monster wouldn't otherwise get it, and we have to bump up his CR to account for the fact that he has the elite array. In other words, if he is only advanced, templated, or has NPC class levels.
The reason why it doesn't have claw attacks is that there was nothing in the origional stat block that implied that it should have claw attacks. Generally, when I get a monster like this, I try and stay as close to the origional stat block as I can, both to keep the power level about the same, and to avoid confusion from having multiple versions of the same monster that are drastically different. That means I look at the stat block and go from there.
That was the problem. You only looked at the stat block. But in the Fiend Folio, it's description and Combat strategy both clearly state it has claws and makes use of them.
Hence why it originally has Multiattack and Multiweapon Fighting ;)
I figured giving the spine range 180 ft. like the manticore was good. I think I'll give it the 4 claw attacks like it's supposed to have and rate the damage at 2d6.
All creatures with mutliple arms in D&D make use of them. It'd make no sense for this creature to have 4 arm/claws...and not make use of them at all.