[Spire of Long Shadows] [spoilers] DM needs help with party tactics!


Age of Worms Adventure Path


Hi there!

The party will soon reach the Spire of Long Shadows where they will face many powerful undead. However, the party will probably make use of "Greater Slaying Arrows" (not least because they have an artificer who can even make them on the fly). These arrows will destroy even the most powerful undead with a better-than-50% chance (a Kyuss Knight has to roll 13+ to survive).

Do you have any ideas how to alleviate (if not solve) this problem?

(I'll advance all the monsters' HD anyway, but I don't see this significantly improving their chances against this method of attack. I don't want to shut it down completely, either, but without a better chance to resist it, the Kyuss Knights might be pushovers. Against optimal tactics that wouldn't be too bad, but I suspect this would crop up again and again with the undead in the future segments of the Age of Worms path.)

Regards & Thanks in advance,

Hal


Just give the more powerful undead (you don't want to spoil their tactics for all of them, lest your PCs will get suspicious) some effect like Entropic Shield, that's 20% miss chance for every arrow...so your players have to decide if they want to burn >2000 GP on every undead, not being sure if it works. Additionally, the Kyuss Knights should start to use tactics, where they draw the PCs into close-quarter fights, where they get at least AoO against people using bows and then start sundering the bow/crossbow, they are not stupid.

Dark Archive

Have an evil cleric buff some of the mobs with Death Ward.

Contributor

In general, the best strategy to counter powerful archers are spells like tiny hut and fog cloud, and then when they get close, grapple em (or cast greater dispel on them a bunch of times, and then grapple em).


Alternately, let this tactic succeed.

There are Kyuss Knights much tougher at the final showdown, not to mention plenty of other enemies with better defenses in the AP.

If you still think they'll be able to take out the tougher Kyuss Knights at the end of the AP, buff those guys up, but the Kyuss Knights in Spire of Long Shadows are no big. Let their tactics succeed now, and enjoy the looks on their faces later when the tougher Kyuss Knights brush off their cool killer tactic like a mosquito bite.


Spoiler:
Also, those arrows won't help against the angels--one of the tougher encounters--nor against the Overworm (which is devastating when it Aweseome Blows people into the worm-lake).


And wait, why do arrows of slaying (or, in this case, greater slaying) work on undead?


Sean, Minister of KtSP wrote:
And wait, why do arrows of slaying (or, in this case, greater slaying) work on undead?

You know, that's a good question. It'd be way cool to make up 1-use arrows that strike undead as a searing light spell, though...


Sean, Minister of KtSP wrote:
And wait, why do arrows of slaying (or, in this case, greater slaying) work on undead?

DMG p. 228 reads: "Note that even creatures normally exempt from Fortitude saves (undead and constructs) are subject to this attack."

This is, of course, one of the many instances in AoW where exploiting undead weaknesses--often with at least a modicum of metagaming--will drastically alter the difficulty. So, the question is, do you reward your players for exploiting the weakness, which may give them just the edge they need to win through the adventure as a whole, or do you alter it, perhaps to play up what a drastic threat these "Sons of Kyuss" really are?

If you decide to give the Knights and Swords of Kyuss an edge, by all means give them Great Fortitude. I'd swap out Cleave for either, or Improved Sunder for the Kyuss Knight, depending on preference. Of course, also swapping entropic shield--make it "convieniently" active at the start of the encounter--for death knell will give the Knights a bit more staying power.

While this should protect the Kyuss Knights well enough, the Swords of Kyuss practically have this coming. A previous post discussed reducing the effect of their Invocation of the Worm--admittedly, an insanely deadly ability, especially in groups, unless protected with Death Ward. I would retain their stats as they are (except they should have a +5 Initiative modifier--I think +3 is a misprint). Of course, the Wormcaller in room 5 with the Swords could greater dispel the archer/archers who are armed with the deadly arrows, hoping to suppress the arrows ability.

I've been here with this same scenario all through the AP. Party had a wizard who love disintegrate...sigh...


Sean, Minister of KtSP wrote:

Alternately, let this tactic succeed.

There are Kyuss Knights much tougher at the final showdown, not to mention plenty of other enemies with better defenses in the AP.

If you still think they'll be able to take out the tougher Kyuss Knights at the end of the AP, buff those guys up, but the Kyuss Knights in Spire of Long Shadows are no big. Let their tactics succeed now, and enjoy the looks on their faces later when the tougher Kyuss Knights brush off their cool killer tactic like a mosquito bite.

I tend to agree with Sean. Let it work; at 2,000 gp each, these attacks aren't free. And even if they hit, like you mention, the arrows success isn't gauranteed.

If you tighten up the amount of gold they receive, they will have a hard time justifying the use of the arrows on anyone but the most stalwart foe.... OR they will forego other magic items they could have bought in liue of the arrows.

***************SPOILER***************

Make sure enemies of superior intelligence and foresight (e.g. Darl and Lashonna) do not fall victoms to these arrows - they should be prepared for their tactics.


Whoa! Lots of good advice - thanks, guys!

Belfur – _entropic shield_ won't work as they'll use _true strike_ for such an attack. Sundering their bows and crossbows, however, is an excellent idea. Thanks!

Sean et al. – good point. I'm leaning towards just letting them enjoy their victory - which doesn't come cheap, after all -, too. I'll probably swap out _bull's strength_ for _eagle's splendor_ to give the Kyuss Knights another +2 to their saves, but that's it.

Regards,

Hal


If you have access to Relics and Rituals, there's a 1st-level paladin spell called "ephod of melee" that gives great bonuses (+1/3 levels deflection) vs. missiles.


Or take a look at those solar bows.. 50k a piece
Letsee a ring of obah blessed (as the ring of dragon form) -grants a +3 LA template for 64.000 gp

Anyway, you have 6 arms now.
3 solar bows.. solar wings would be nice too no doubt..
And then a TON of archer feats and such..
How is that for a fighter? :D

Thats a bunch of arrows every turn too.. minimum of 8! Ill have to research that 12 a possinbility? And werent there some multi-arrow feats too..
So any fight shouldn't last beyond 3 rounds.. lol
Well that is equipment of 300k in the minimum.
That quiver of mielikki will be very well used :D


ikki wrote:
Anyway, you have 6 arms now. 3 solar bows..

Yeah, if you want to spend all those feats on multiweapon fighting... You have 6 arms, but still only one brain.

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