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Hi everyone,
I just read a Dragon article on new feats and skill tricks for roguish characters. Reading it I wondered:
Are skill tricks intended to enhance a rogue and add something not "featish" or "skillish"? Or is it just a means to add more "feat like" abilities and thereby circumventing the feat number restrictions of some base classes?
Why would I think this way?
Both feats and skill tricks have requisits. Both can contain certain minimum skills, both provide abilities to characters which are beyond normal skills and sometimes resemble special abilities of monsters.
The maximum number of feats/ skill tricks is calculated differently, but apart from that I don't see why skill tricks couldn't be called feats, too.
Do I err? Did I miss something setting skill tricks further apart from feats? Or am I correct and D&D develops into a direction as AD&D did in its late 2nd edition days (you remember the core rule expansion books on skills, epic levels, and skills?)...
Looking forward to your input,
Günther
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Skill Tricks can only be used once per encounter. Feats can be used as often as you want (most of the time).
Thanks for your answer.
Hhhmmm... In this case skill tricks rather resemble "light weight" feats, don't they? I am still trying to grasp the benefits versus the added rule complexity. You add a bonus to rogues, but it is rather limited (single use per encounter), whereas you have another "ability" to keep track of and to keep in mind when progressing PCs.
Did you try skill tricks in game?
What were your experiences like?
Greetings,
Günther
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I am still trying to grasp the benefits versus the added rule complexity. You add a bonus to rogues, but it is rather limited (single use per encounter), whereas you have another "ability" to keep track of and to keep in mind when progressing PCs.
Did you try skill tricks in game?
What were your experiences like?
We have used them in our group fairly often and they are not any more difficult in play than any other abilities. In fact, they seem to be of a fairly limited use. I like them quite a bit, however, because they are quite flavorful if the skill trick fits your character. My very athletic Goliath barbarian can turn once during a charge or move up a hill at normal speed. It fits well with the feel of the character without becoming overpowered. Most of the tricks will come into play rarely, anyway. Check out the complete scoundrel for a full list. Any rule that gives an easy mechanic for allowing a PC to do a unique, creative move in the midst of battle gets my vote.
Cheers!!
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Contributor
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I've modified skill tricks a bit. I do think they were intended to allow skill based classes to buy more feat-like abilities, but not be as good as feats.
My modifacation is that I have altered the once per encounter limit. I frankly hate 'per encounter' or 'for the rest of the encounter' as a measuer. What the hell is an encounter? What if reinforcements come, or a PC opens another door in the middle of a fight?
I also like more DCs to be opposed/variable rather than set. So I make people make appropriate skill checks versus their opponent to use a skill trick, and the defender gets a cumulative +5 circumstance bonus for every time they've seen the character attempt the trick.
Mind you, I'd like to extend this to more feats and skills. For example, tumble should be an opposed roll to avoid attacks of opportunity (or should replace AC versus Attacks of opportunity).
I also wouldn't mind seeing feats purchasable with skill points, and perhaps having a variable cost, but that's a whole system rewrite that also means retooling every prepublished encounter I'd want to use, so I'll never do it.
out of curiosity, how have you modified the "per encounter" aspect of it, that is in fact the main reson that I do not use skills tricks in my games. My idea was to change it to once every 10 rounds,but that seems almost too long.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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My definition of an 'encounter' is one initiative track. Whenever initiative is re-rolled, a new encounter is starting. I find that this makes the definition pretty cut and dry. For non-combat encounters, any time the 'scenery' would change, it's a new encounter. I try to think of it like "if this were a play, when would the backdrop need to change?"
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Contributor
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out of curiosity, how have you modified the "per encounter" aspect of it, that is in fact the main reson that I do not use skills tricks in my games. My idea was to change it to once every 10 rounds,but that seems almost too long.
Sorry, I could have been clearer. I ditched the once per encounter completely, since it makes no sense to me at all. Instead, I use the skill check with the cumulative penalty, which means that the more often you try to use it in a single encounter, the harder it gets to use. And even the first time you use it, a skill check is needed. We find this balances nicely. It's pretty rare that a skill trick gets used more than once an encounter in my games, and occasionally charcters have failed their first attempt and not got to use it.
If someone can give me a reasonable in-game explanation for the once per encounter rule... wel, I probably still won't go back to that, but I'd be pleased to hear it.
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Thank you all for your replies!
Hhhmm... First I should mention that I already own "Complete Scoundrel". So shame on me that I didn't read the rules more closely. I missed the "once per encounter" part and therefore mistook them for an attempt to introduce something featlike to classes with limited real feat access.
@ Rambling Scribe: Apparently you voluntarily moved skill tricks closer to feats. I congratulate you upon the idea to work with increased difficulties per use. On the other hand this is one step closer to feats.
If someone can give me a reasonable in-game explanation for the once per encounter rule... wel, I probably still won't go back to that, but I'd be pleased to hear it.
So my best guess is a meta game guess (many things in D&D are unexplainable in real world terms): a "once per encounter" limit could be an attempt to keep a sufficiently big gap between feats and skill tricks. It makes skill tricks worthwile while keeping them considerably less powerful than feats.
Nevertheless I keep wondering: Why not call it "feat light" and count it as half a feat when checking the number of feats available?
Greetings,
Günther
I see the once per encounter rule as a once per minute rule really. Just without having people keep track of the delay during combat. I see it as the time needed to prepare to use the trick again, either to wait till your calm and focused enough to use it again or until the enemies have dropped thier guard against that particular trick.
- Joshua Blazej
If someone can give me a reasonable in-game explanation for the once per encounter rule... wel, I probably still won't go back to that, but I'd be pleased to hear it.
"We have a saying in Greyhawk... maybe you have it in the Realms, too... um, 'Fool me once and, uh, you fooled me; fool me twice and, um, you're not using a skill trick.'"