I do think I'm gonna stick with the Nyss though, and probably take up Zack's suggestion of doing a Scout. It sounds like that's exactly the kind of thing this concept needs. The only problem was I was kind of digging the idea of an animal companion too...Hmmm... I'll look (and ask) around to see if there's anything we can do to get you an animal companion as a scout. It'll probably cost you a feat slot or possibly giving up one of your scout abilities to do it, but I think there's a way to make it work.
I started a thread for your benefit. It looks like you might be in luck.
These are some damn handy messageboards, let me tell you.
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The only problem was I was kind of digging the idea of an animal companion too...
Ik Rangers don't get animal companions or spellcasting normally, unless Zack was letting you take the standard PHB Ranger to reflect your Nyss-i-ness.
I think doing the Scout from the Complete Adventurer is an great idea, they also get fast movement, evasion, trackless step, camouflage, and blindsense. All before level 10! Sounds right up this concept's alley.
The only problem was I was kind of digging the idea of an animal companion too...Ik Rangers don't get animal companions or spellcasting normally, unless Zack was letting you take the standard PHB Ranger to reflect your Nyss-i-ness.
I think doing the Scout from the Complete Adventurer is an great idea, they also get fast movement, evasion, trackless step, camouflage, and blindsense. All before level 10! Sounds right up this concept's alley.
I agree that Scout is pretty much exactly what the doctor ordered here, but I would allow the standard PHB ranger for a Nyss character since the standard IK ranger is really more 'military' or 'frontiersman' themed. I would probably nix the spellcasting, though, and replace it with the alternative ranger option from the Complete Warrior (gives fast movement at level 6, freedom of movement at level 12, and some other stuff down the line).
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Also, as far as the oracular stuff, there is the Omniscient Whispers feat in unearthed arcana. The flavor doesn't work but the mechanicery might.
A spider just built a web over the top of my coffee cup.
Zack - all I've found on the Order of the Arcane Tempest is that they're the gunmage branch of the Cygnaran Military. Is there more somewhere, or did you just want to fudge it?
A spider just built a web over the top of my coffee cup.
Like... just now? As in, you watched it take place from start to finish? You must be phenomenally bored... and obviously not drinking your coffee fast enough. :)
Zack - all I've found on the Order of the Arcane Tempest is that they're the gunmage branch of the Cygnaran Military. Is there more somewhere, or did you just want to fudge it?
No, that's pretty much it. They don't go into any major details (though there's some expanded info in one of the issues of No Quarter magazine that I have). They're basically just a specialist wing of the Cygnaran military who all happen to be Gun Mages.
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Like... just now? As in, you watched it take place from start to finish? You must be phenomenally bored... and obviously not drinking your coffee fast enough. :)
No, overnight. But the mug had water in it and I went to drink some and almost got a face full of web.
They don't go into any major details (though there's some expanded info in one of the issues of No Quarter magazine that I have). They're basically just a specialist wing of the Cygnaran military who all happen to be Gun Mages.
Ok, any pertinent bits off the top of your head I should consider? Do you remember where they're based out of? Do they have any specific military task?
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Fatespinner--
Thank you so much for this thread. i've written some for Privateer (some IKCG & IKWG and a bunch of No Quarter articles), but I have yet to see a lot of IK-luvin on these boards. We're kind of a niche market. Thanks.
And if you need a backup PC, drop me a line. game_ops_director (at) yahoo. Or, frankly, if you wanna talk nasty IK DM tricks. I got a bunch.
Jason Dawson
Baqubah, Iraq
Also, as far as the oracular stuff, there is the Omniscient Whispers feat in unearthed arcana. The flavor doesn't work but the mechanicery might.
Yeah, there's not really much in the way of oracular abilities here. The best advice I can give is just to play your character as someone who receives flashes of insight but can't exactly figure out specific details. Consider taking some of the Luck feats from the Complete Scoundrel in order to allow you to re-roll a few types of checks once per day to reflect this 'insight.' Sly Fortune is a good 'gateway' Luck feat (since many of the really good Luck feats require at least one or two other Luck feats as a prerequisite) which allows you to reroll one Hide or Move Silently check per day. From there, you can eventually get 'Better Lucky Than Good' which (IIRC) allows you to convert a roll of natural 1 into a natural 20 once per day.
Ok, any pertinent bits off the top of your head I should consider? Do you remember where they're based out of? Do they have any specific military task?
As far as I know, they're basically just like any other military unit except that they tend to be a bit more capable than most due to the fact that they have magic on their side. They're based out of Caspia but, as a military unit, they could be just about anywhere at any time.
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Arcane Tempest play a SpecOps role in the Cygnaran Military. Due to their low numbers, high versatility and damage output, they are usually only assigned to units that need or can utilize their precision. They hit hard and get out of the way, tagging high-value targets or opening holes in a battle line that LongGunners and Trenchers or even 'jacks can utilize. They occasionally work alongside Cygnaran Rangers as well, getting in and assassinating a Kommander or Sea Witch or Menite priest and then evaporating into the smoke of the battlefield. They are, in effect, a scalpel.
And as for PC viability, I'd say their SpecOps potential makes them easily usable in that capacity. Give the PC a high-ranking military contact to give him his running orders, and you've got an easy-in for adventure hooks, too.
just my .02.
Fatespinner--
Thank you so much for this thread. i've written some for Privateer (some IKCG & IKWG and a bunch of No Quarter articles), but I have yet to see a lot of IK-luvin on these boards. We're kind of a niche market. Thanks.
And if you need a backup PC, drop me a line. game_ops_director (at) yahoo. Or, frankly, if you wanna talk nasty IK DM tricks. I got a bunch.
Jason Dawson
Baqubah, Iraq
No, thank you. Iron Kingdoms is, without question, the most amazing 'alternative' d20 setting I have ever seen. I appreciate the work of everyone involved in it's production and look forward to future supplements. Thus far, I own every IK hardcover released as well as 2 issues of No Quarter and the Liber Mechanika. I'll be picking up the Monsternomicon II hopefully within the next month or two.
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No, thank you. Iron Kingdoms is, without question, the most amazing 'alternative' d20 setting I have ever seen. I appreciate the work of everyone involved in it's production and look forward to future supplements. Thus far, I own every IK hardcover released as well as 2 issues of No Quarter and the Liber Mechanika. I'll be picking up the Monsternomicon II hopefully within the next month or two.Fatespinner--
Thank you so much for this thread. i've written some for Privateer (some IKCG & IKWG and a bunch of No Quarter articles), but I have yet to see a lot of IK-luvin on these boards. We're kind of a niche market. Thanks.
And if you need a backup PC, drop me a line. game_ops_director (at) yahoo. Or, frankly, if you wanna talk nasty IK DM tricks. I got a bunch.
Jason Dawson
Baqubah, Iraq
If youre going to be running a campaign with any kind of military interaction, WM: Superiority is a must. It's utterly invaluable in that respect. HORDES: Primal, too will open up a huuuuge swath of avdenture opportunities. And backissues of NQ are good too, especially for the Guts and Gears articles.
If youre going to be running a campaign with any kind of military interaction, WM: Superiority is a must. It's utterly invaluable in that respect. HORDES: Primal, too will open up a huuuuge swath of avdenture opportunities. And backissues of NQ are good too, especially for the Guts and Gears articles.
I'm actually looking to avoid a mainstream military campaign with this one. I have no problem with ex-military concepts or mercenaries, but I'm hoping for a more exploratory and unfettered campaign. It allows the players to play a wide range of character concepts and removes the 'railroading' aspect of always having to function under the military yoke of authority.
That's not to say that the PCs won't work FOR the military on occassion, but I don't want to lock them into a hierarchy like that. Thanks for the input, though. I'll keep your considerations in mind for future campaigns!
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Yeah the oracular bits were for Steve's tarot reading bit for the Nyss. The effects of Commune 1/week (or Contact other Plane if you want it to be less powerful) seemed fitting to me, with the added requirements of maintaining concentration the entire time and obviously the focus of the deck of cards, but I could also totally understand if that was something you didn't want to deal with in your game. I'm not even really sure that's what Steve was looking for but it was about as good as I could come up with.
My original Cygnaran pistoleer concept could be retooled into the OotAT Gunmage story. Maybe instead of random artillery fire he dove on a grenade or something to that effect - a cache of powder that was about to go up etc. garnering him an honorable discharge. Would you allow flaws in this game? I'd like to mechanically reflect the limp somehow. The slow flaw halves your base speed which would be pretty crippling, maybe the -3 reflex save flaw? As in, he just lacks the mobility to get out of the way? He can still get up to top speed if he needs to, he just doesn't like it. Mrr, just thoughts. I kind of like the notion of this character just plain being slower, but I'm not sure they let you be an adventurer if your movement speed is 15.
My original Cygnaran pistoleer concept could be retooled into the OotAT Gunmage story. Maybe instead of random artillery fire he dove on a grenade or something to that effect - a cache of powder that was about to go up etc. garnering him an honorable discharge. Would you allow flaws in this game? I'd like to mechanically reflect the limp somehow. The slow flaw halves your base speed which would be pretty crippling, maybe the -3 reflex save flaw? As in, he just lacks the mobility to get out of the way? He can still get up to top speed if he needs to, he just doesn't like it. Mrr, just thoughts. I kind of like the notion of this character just plain being slower, but I'm not sure they let you be an adventurer if your movement speed is 15.
I would be willing to permit one flaw per character if you so wished but you're right, a lot of them are pretty devastating. Mobility is pretty important for ranged weapon users and spellcasters though, so I would strongly recommend against sacrificing it.
Another thing you might consider is that he was just discharged due to completing his service contract... or possibly he retired? It might be interesting to see a 45-year-old grizzly Cygnaran Gun Mage in play. You'd be suffering -1 STR, DEX, and CON, but gaining +1 INT, WIS, and CHA so it wouldn't be particularly damning one way or the other. You could take a few ranks in Knowledge(History) and say "Back in my day..." a lot.
Does being an ex-member of the Order get me a magelock?
Yes, but only if you were honorably discharged (either from injury or retirement).
Ok. I took the Druid concept to lunch with me and here's what I thought up. Since I'm still somewhat unfamiliar with the setting, I've left out a few important details (like WHERE the hell the character is from) that can be filled in later with help.
So. What we have is a 32 year old elfen druid living in some forest/desert/mountain range/other "untamed" area. When she was 12 an army came through, whiping out various populations, and her both of her parents died. She fled into the wilderness, where she essentially proceeded to raise herself. She has been living for the last 30 years in the territory of those who defeated her community. Although she doesn't actually dislike or fear people, she is a little wary of them and prefers the uncomplicated company of animals. She has a similar view of technology: she's both fascinated and wary of it, but not inherently against it so long as it does not disrupt her life. She tries to avoid both technology and people, but not to the point of being completely isolated. She makes herself accessable to people soemtimes, as a healer and sort of hedge-witch; those in need can come to her for basic spells, herbs, medicine, etc. Although she's not necessarily trusted or liked (and feels the same way in return), her interactions with others are not hostile in nature.
Nyss Scout, with or without animal companion.
I did want the focus of the deck of 'tarot' (for lack of a better term, I'll gin up Nyss/IK appropriate flavor rather than use the standard model) cards, yes. 'Luck' feats would be appropriate, I suppose, but I was just sort of hoping for one feat that would reflect a little bit of insight rather than a whole chain of feats, since the Scout doesn't get any bonus feats if I remember correctly.
I'd like to try and find him some more immediate motivation. The search for the Elven gods thing is an overarching goal, but why has it brought him exploring into human lands? I think the idea of a Nyss bounty hunter might work. It functions with his alignment and seems the sort of thing that lends itself to overland skirmishing and scouting. I think I'll probably grab the Endurance and Dash feats for even more speed and staying power.
We'll see.
Nyss Scout, with or without animal companion.
I did want the focus of the deck of 'tarot' (for lack of a better term, I'll gin up Nyss/IK appropriate flavor rather than use the standard model) cards, yes. 'Luck' feats would be appropriate, I suppose, but I was just sort of hoping for one feat that would reflect a little bit of insight rather than a whole chain of feats, since the Scout doesn't get any bonus feats if I remember correctly.
Actually, Scouts do get a few bonus feats (one every 4 levels if I recall correctly), but they have to be selected from a fairly limited list which mostly focuses on combat (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, etc.) and wilderness functionality (Track, Stealthy, etc.).
Also, Sasha, the concept seems pretty solid but you'll want to do something other than an elf. Iosan elves would certainly not fit into this campaign (and probably wouldn't be druids anyway) and another Nyss is one too many. If you don't want to be human (despite numerous nomadic human cultures to choose from), you could always be a trollkin. Mmmm... regeneration...
Also, Sasha, the concept seems pretty solid but you'll want to do something other than an elf. Iosan elves would certainly not fit into this campaign (and probably wouldn't be druids anyway) and another Nyss is one too many. If you don't want to be human (despite numerous nomadic human cultures to choose from), you could always be a trollkin. Mmmm... regeneration...
Pfft on the trollkin, but I'll play a human happily enough. ;)
Pfft on the trollkin, but I'll play a human happily enough. ;)
Everybody's always dissin' on the trollkin, man. You just don't want to play them because they're green and vaguely resemble frogs. The females are very kind looking and their society is not neccessarily violent and mean, especially if you play one of the 'sorcerer' trollkin (who get a bonus to Wisdom, I believe).
Human, though... sounds fine. :D
Everybody's always dissin' on the trollkin, man. You just don't want to play them because they're green and vaguely resemble frogs. The females are very kind looking and their society is not neccessarily violent and mean, especially if you play one of the 'sorcerer' trollkin (who get a bonus to Wisdom, I believe).
Yes, they may be extremely warm and fuzzy people.... but as you said, they're GREEN and vaguely resemble FROGS!
...they're GREEN and vaguely resemble FROGS!
Okay, okay, but don't come crying to me if your arms get hacked off by a skorne raiding party and you can't cast spells anymore. You'll wish you had regeneration then, mark my words... >:)
...they're GREEN and vaguely resemble FROGS!Okay, okay, but don't come crying to me if your arms get hacked off by a skorne raiding party and you can't cast spells anymore. You'll wish you had regeneration then, mark my words... >:)
OMG o.O :(
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I would just like to note for the record that trollkin are the awesome.
I am fairly happy with both concepts, I will likely either play the merc company bard or the gunmage with the limp. Both concepts will cast spells, shoot guns, and shave once a week or so. Excellent.
A couple of mechanical questions: Does the gun mage suffer from arcane spell failure? It doesn't really state anywhere that he doesn't but I sure thought that he didn't for light armors at least. He is proficient with light armor but it doesn't make any spellcasting stipulations as it does in the bard class.
Also if one is going to take the Battle Caster feat from the complete arcane as a bard, it is sort of assumed that you're taking the medium armor proficiency as well, huh? What I'm saying is it actually takes 2 feats to use the armor effectively, yes?
Is there any way outside of the pistoleer and rifleman class abilities (and the rather narrow rifleman feat) to reduce reloading times? I am assuming rapid reload can't apply to guns.
Tangentially, wasn't there a gundancer PrC in Dragonstar? I seem to remember it as being ridiculous.
A couple of mechanical questions: Does the gun mage suffer from arcane spell failure?
No, the gun mage does not suffer ASF from light armor.
Also if one is going to take the Battle Caster feat from the complete arcane as a bard, it is sort of assumed that you're taking the medium armor proficiency as well, huh? What I'm saying is it actually takes 2 feats to use the armor effectively, yes?
Yes, you would need to gain the proficiency somehow in order to negate the non-proficiency penalties, but you do not need to be proficient with the armor in order to benefit from Battle Caster (meaning you can wear medium armor and cast in it just fine, but you'll still apply your armor check penalty to your attack rolls and skill checks unless you gain proficiency).
Is there any way outside of the pistoleer and rifleman class abilities (and the rather narrow rifleman feat) to reduce reloading times? I am assuming rapid reload can't apply to guns.
Rapid Reload can apply to guns. It would reduce a standard action reload to a move action or a full-round action reload to a standard action. Obviously, it would have no effect on rifles (which require TWO actions) but the Rifleman feat would cover that. Rapid Reload effectively only applies to pistols and crossbows.
Tangentially, wasn't there a gundancer PrC in Dragonstar? I seem to remember it as being ridiculous.
Yes, there was. It would not quite work in this setting, but if you're really deadset on it, we could probably tweak it into some kind of functionality. I don't think it'll be worth it though.
Good deal. Any word on what Ali is playing? I will probably hammer down a concept once I know the final group composition.
Nothing concrete yet, but she's leaning towards a CN Human barbarian.
Hmm. She's doing CN, too? Should I shift to some other alignment to give us a bit more diversity of viewpoint? I could make that Cygnaran veteran be LN and have had him be more command-viable, and conversely be a bit more forceful about just HOW to do things. I could play the somewhat aging grizzled veteran as well - that might be kinda fun too.
Ugh, I'm torn.
I cast myself upon the mercy of the other players:
Nyss Scout or Cygnaran Fighter? Skirmishing Ranger enigma or grizzled veteran soldier?
Ian: If I played the Cygnaran, we'd have common heraldry, that'd be fun.
Anyone else have opinions?
Ian votes Nyss.
I'm more and more sold on the gritty Cygnaran veteran as we go.
Ian and I (mostly I) talked about it a bit more and the idea of the veteran soldier of the Menite/Cygnar civil war really starts to sell in my head.
Low Charisma (I'm thinking around 6-8), High Strength and Con, 8-10 Dex, 11-14 intelligence, middling Wisdom. Middle-ranking officer that became more and more brutal and tenacious as the war ground on, and after the 'treaty' was signed was such a destablizing factor in the region (constantly calling for a renewal of the violence) that he was 'honorably' retired and discharged.
Scarred, battle-weary, spends his days in an alcohol-induced semi-stupor now that he basically lacks any meaning or direction. Still owns all of his soldiering gear from his honorable discharge, including military rifle, bastard sword, and whatever that tower shield is that's notched for rifle barrels.
It'll give some meat to the party that doesn't need to rage. He'll get along well with Ian's Cygnaran gun mage just for sharing the same side in a conflict (whether Ian is a vet or not) and he'll enjoy the barbarian's presence simply because of her capacity for combat.
Depending on what Sasha makes, he could find a reason to like her, or possibly even dislike her to create some dialogue and party tension rather than everything running completely smooth. It's IK after all.
I have crafted the beginnings of an image for him as well. I'm starting to like the idea.
Ack. Steve... lol. I now really want to play Sy'yll AND play the damn druid, cuz I've had time to start thinking about who the stupid druid is and what she's like.
Um....
Hey Ali? That barbarian wouldn't by any chance be named Yfel, would she? ;)
Oh! And while my thoughts are scattered to the four winds..... alignment stuff! Sy'yll, if she's the one I play, is CG. The druid I'm a little iffier about. In terms of her relationship to SOCIETY she's chaotic. In terms of her relationship with her own set of personally-developed rules and traditions, she's EXTREMELY lawful. There is a proper way to do things, and she WON'T deviate unless she is STRONGLY impelled toward some other course of action. Sigh... I guess I don't know enough about freakin' alignment to know what precisely characterizes each alignment, and neither do I have my book anywhere that I can find to look it up..... ANYWAY, she's either CG or LG.
Ack. Steve... lol. I now really want to play Sy'yll AND play the damn druid, cuz I've had time to start thinking about who the stupid druid is and what she's like.
Um....
Hey Ali? That barbarian wouldn't by any chance be named Yfel, would she? ;)
Oh! And while my thoughts are scattered to the four winds..... alignment stuff! Sy'yll, if she's the one I play, is CG. The druid I'm a little iffier about. In terms of her relationship to SOCIETY she's chaotic. In terms of her relationship with her own set of personally-developed rules and traditions, she's EXTREMELY lawful. There is a proper way to do things, and she WON'T deviate unless she is STRONGLY impelled toward some other course of action. Sigh... I guess I don't know enough about freakin' alignment to know what precisely characterizes each alignment, and neither do I have my book anywhere that I can find to look it up..... ANYWAY, she's either CG or LG.
Sounds like LG to me. The Good/Evil axis is your 'Morality.' It's how you view the nature of what constitutes worthwhile pursuit and useful action. The Lawful/Chaotic axis is your 'Ethics,' how you pursue those goals and actions. Because you're talking about a rigid-minded, this-way-or-no-way character, you're talking about Lawful. You have a disciplined set of thought patterns rather than a make-it-up-as-you-go mentality.
imo.
ANYWAY, she's either CG or LG.
Druids =/= LG or CG
Since you're torn between the two, though, you could settle in the middle at NG, which is a valid druid alignment. :D
ANYWAY, she's either CG or LG.Druids =/= LG or CG
Since you're torn between the two, though, you could settle in the middle at NG, which is a valid druid alignment. :D
Oh, they CAN'T be anything but Neutral?
Well then... I guess it's solved. NG hehe.
So, is Steve 100% sure he's playing the Cygnaran instead of the Nyss? Because if so, I think I'm going to write up quick character profiles of both Sy'yll and the druid and see which one a) seems to offer a better opportunity for interesting character interactions and b) makes more sense in terms of party needs.
So, I guess I'll get on that... after I do these wire transfers. ;)
What was Sy'yll again? Sorcerer? If you do that then I will definitely be doing the War-Bard just so we have *some* healing.
That or trying to figure out who that damned Cleric is.
Yep, sorc.
Crikey Fatey, how many of these are you running?
This would be #3, Aubrey. Yes, I do, in fact, hate myself.
Hell. I'll do Sy'yll. The druid is seeming more and more like a perfectionist version of Riann and it's driving me crazy.
Hell. I'll do Sy'yll. The druid is seeming more and more like a perfectionist version of Riann and it's driving me crazy.
Which, following Ian's post, gives us:
A War Bard (semi-healer/buffer)
A Sorceror (Explodey Death)
A Barbarian (Axey[?] Death)
A Fighter (Meat)
I think this is your lineup, Zack.
A War Bard (semi-healer/buffer)
A Sorceror (Explodey Death)
A Barbarian (Axey[?] Death)
A Fighter (Meat)I think this is your lineup, Zack.
Works for me. Get some characters statted up (using 32-point buy build from the DMG) and e-mail them to me either at my work address or my home one. Go ahead and start off with maximum hit points for 4th level. You'll probably need it. I'll need to double-check to see if bards can still use healing spells in IK. I'm not 100% sure they can and it would seem to go against the general theme of the setting if they could. I'll look it up, though.
Works for me. Get some characters statted up (using 32-point buy build from the DMG) and e-mail them to me either at my work address or my home one. Go ahead and start off with maximum hit points for 4th level. You'll probably need it. I'll need to double-check to see if bards can still use healing spells in IK. I'm not 100% sure they can and it would seem to go against the general theme of the setting if they could. I'll look it up, though.
Do you by any chance still have Sy'yll's character sheet? I know she needs to be bumped down a couple levels and such, but I just want to use it for reference.
Do you by any chance still have Sy'yll's character sheet? I know she needs to be bumped down a couple levels and such, but I just want to use it for reference.
I can probably dredge it up somewhere. If I recall correctly, I think you were all level 7 when that game went splat.
I can probably dredge it up somewhere. If I recall correctly, I think you were all level 7 when that game went splat.
You mean when Yfel went splat and the game went with her? :P
I can probably dredge it up somewhere. If I recall correctly, I think you were all level 7 when that game went splat.You mean when Yfel went splat and the game went with her? :P
No, actually, I didn't have a problem with Ali no longer wanting to play. She told me she wasn't interested and thus I took the liberty of having her character obliterated.
The reason the game died was because, not long after she left, you broke up with Lump (thankfully) and then it was down to a 3 player game with no healer. Not a good situation and certainly not a balanced and functional party (especially since multi-classing had reduced Taylor's character to a pile of useless crap).
Oh, Sasha (and possibly Ali too) might be interested in reading this really old thread where I reveal the truth behind the last IK game that you unfortunately never got to see. I was asking the Lords of the Boards here if they had any dastardly ideas to execute my Cunning Plan(tm).
The reason the game died was because, not long after she left, you broke up with Lump (thankfully) and then it was down to a 3 player game with no healer.
The Lump! Brilliant! :D