Can't really say, since i've only just started running TFoE from AoW, and haven't run ST yet, but Come on! PIRATES!!!!
I've already DMed AoW, and loved it, and am currently DMing STAP. SCAP did not interest me as much, based on the solitary adventure I read of it, but I can say that unless the hardback has the newer format stat blocks (which I don't know if it was the case or not), I would find it more difficult to get at the pertinent info in a jiff when I need to.
Personally, AoW appears to have more "iconic" D&D moments, and doesn't stray too far from the standard mold of a campaign in gameplay. STAP, however, has numerous adventures that incorporate things not ordinarily found in most campaigns...
However, my players seem to be more enthusiastic about STAP--there are 5, instead of 3 from my AoW game, however--than they were about AoW. So, I'd say it depends on if you're looking for something with a "classic" feel, go with AoW, more "fresh and experimental", go with STAP. But let me know how SCAP is if you go with that, cool?
Definitely not STAP. I like it, but I don't think my players would be able to handle it. Some of the things in it (especially the whole pirate air) would lead them to completely veer off of the campaign and decide to become pirates and on and on until they've forgotten who Demogorgon or Vanthus are. On the other hand, STAP is the AP that I have the most adventures from. I only am lacking the very first adventure.
SCAP would be fun, but one of my players already owns the hardcover, so he would already know everything...
AOW would probably be the most fun for my group, but I would need a hardcover book for it, because I only have a smattering of the adventures in it.
So I guess I take it back. STAP would be the one I'd run, if only because I'd only need to buy one magazine issue to actually run it. (Well, three I suppose, since I still don't have the last two adventures...)
All of them have their points with me but Age of Worms wins out in the end. It just had more mother of all coolness moments per adventure as far as I'm concerned. Especially later on in the AP.
Creative Director
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All of them have their points with me but Age of Worms wins out in the end. It just had more mother of all coolness moments per adventure as far as I'm concerned. Especially later on in the AP.
Keep in mind that the last two adventures in Savage Tide are likely to have some mother of all coolness moments too... :)
All of them have their points with me but Age of Worms wins out in the end. It just had more mother of all coolness moments per adventure as far as I'm concerned. Especially later on in the AP.
Kings of the Rift. Just sayin'....
My group has always responded better to wilderness-based battles and exploration settings. Thus why I chose to run STAP rather than the other two.
Though I have not looked thoroughly into either of AoW or SCAP (I'd like to play in those someday), my understanding is that SCAP is far more urban based while AoW is classic dungeon delving and lots of undead. I could see my group getting into AoW if they knew ahead of time to plan to combat hordes of undead, but otherwise it would turn into a lot of whining and complaining - not fun. Urban settings tend to make the group just fizzle as the players whom talk the loudest seem to easily dominate such games, while the DM attempts to limit the city from having the resources of a city. Also not fun. Wilderness exploration seems to be our happy balance.
AoW is classic dungeon delving and lots of undead. I could see my group getting into AoW if they knew ahead of time to plan to combat hordes of undead,
Oddly enough, for all the promise of undead the AoWAP seems to promise, my undead killing specialist PCs were constantly complaining that there weren't enough undead for them to massacre. AoW is more varied in types of critters encountered that you might think.
All of them have their points with me but Age of Worms wins out in the end. It just had more mother of all coolness moments per adventure as far as I'm concerned. Especially later on in the AP.Kings of the Rift. Just sayin'....
True dat. I played freakin' Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries". Wanna know why? You'll just have to dig it up, play it, and find out!
Right now I'd say Age of Worms with a few modifications/additions. I have yet to see the final adventure in Savage Tide but the last two adventures have all but required some VERY good diplomacy on the PCs part. Savage Tide has the benefit and drawback of including a LOT of notable characters from DnD's past.
One thing I've noticed about all three campains is how much I'd want a Sacred Exorcist along to help deal with all the vile outsiders/undead. Savage Tide does present it with a few more problems (lawful types in the chaotic planes have problems) but it could still be worth it considering all the ranks in Knowledge (Planes) that are needed.
Savage Tide. I can run it in Spelljammerverse, it's got pirates, and almost every carbon-based(or brimstone-based) life form the PCs encounter is smoking hot(pun intended).
Well, since I'm running it right now, I'd say SCAP! After that, I'm leaning toward STAP, but that's a long, long way off.
I'll tell you in a decade when I finish running all of them. They are all pretty cool. I'm really enjoying playing Age of Worms (approaching the half-way mark) so far, and from reading, I like it the best. But STAP is a very, very close second (and I've only run the first two adventures so far). I think SCAP is also very good and there are lots of interesting bits in it--it also has the advantage of being more focused with lots of recurring NPCs. For me, I think it doesn't get quite as many cool points as the other two because there really aren't any classic D&D references, whereas in the other two, you get to revisit a lot of places and personalities that are really central to the game's development. So they are extra special for older gamers and Greyhawk fans (and maybe less so for younger gamers).
I'm in the process of converting Shackled City to my game world and it is chock full of urban intrigue. There are dungeons and it can rely on them but that's not a hard thing to alter, as I have done. However, on first read through it was the story of Age of Worms that jumped out at me most. I like the idea of some cosmic evil corrupting the world and trying to find a way in. But upon further reading the rollicking adventure aspects of Savage Tide make it look totally awesome and I think my group will really enjoy that.
Each path seems to have it's strengths and weaknesses and it ends up that each are pretty good though the quality seems to build as you go due to a natural learning process.
So my vote goes to Shackled City first but all three eventually. I am going to do them in order and I hope my group will enjoy them.
Okay, I know it sounds a bit...odd...but wouldn't it be cool if all three APs could be combined into one super-AP? I dare everyone to come up with a story line that involves every adventure of all three. I just dare you!
(Do a good job and I might use it in my own campaign. How's THAT for a reward?)
Okay, I know it sounds a bit...odd...but wouldn't it be cool if all three APs could be combined into one super-AP? I dare everyone to come up with a story line that involves every adventure of all three. I just dare you!
Jesus, that would take a party, even a big one, up over 30th level. Plus it would take forever to play. Sounds neat if you have the stamina for it. Personally, I think I'll just have the party retire between each one.
Savage Tide.
It pretty much hit all the points I love: Seafaring + Pirates + the Planes (with honorable mention going to tropical islands and dinosaurs).
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If you had to choose just one of these AP's to run, which would it be?
I would run Age of Worms over and over again if I could find enough players. While I think Age of Worms has near endless greatness, there are three elements that captured my imagination and never let go:
The Whispering Cairn as a whole - good ol' fashion D&D.
Zyrxog - need I say more?
Dragotha - a classic D&D icon brought to fruition in the perfect theme.
I wish Age of Worms had been first and received hardback treatment.
Happy gaming.
Don (Greyson)
West Jordan, Utah
You can't go wrong with any of them.
Paizo hit three BIG home runs with these, IMO :)
You can't go wrong with any of them.
Paizo hit three BIG home runs with these, IMO :)
Besides some easily fixed structural flaws in Shackled City I'd have to agree.
You can't go wrong with any of them.
Paizo hit three BIG home runs with these, IMO :)
Besides some easily fixed structural flaws in Shackled City I'd have to agree.
Yep. The fact that the (inevitable) flaws are so minor and easily-fixable speaks to the achievement the APs represent.
IMO, best all-time D&D campaigns, in no particular order:
- Giant Series
- Drow Series
- Temple of Elemental Evil
- Slave Lords
- Savage Tide
- Age of Worms
- Shackled City
My personal favorite is Age of Worms. It has a very classic heroic fantasy feel to it.
Whatever you choose, check the archives for suggestions on how to make some adventures even more memorable.
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I loved the classic feel of AoW, and the whispering cairn is the best starting point adventure since "The village of...". I am running STAP now and the players are really enjoying it. No comment on SCAP as I don't own it yet :( I loved AoW for all of the undead and it had plenty of iconic locations, but I will make a final decision after the group heads to the abyss!
*Now that I think about it, the isle of dread might take the cake for an iconic location though
Tied for AoW and STAP. Some of the posters above have put it best: If players want the sea and pirates at the moment, run STAP. If they want classic "heroic" d&d, run AoW. Either way everyone wins :)
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If you had to choose just one of these AP's to run, which would it be?
Just as an update (since I saw this thread pop back up), I decided to run STAP. Currently, my party is about 1/3 of the way through HTBM (getting ready to enter Darkmountain Pass).
I think my players are having alot of fun. The pace is really good for them (we level about ever 1.5 sessions) and is keeping everyone's interest well. They hate Vanthus, so we get that check-mark. We've suffered only 1 PC death so far.
Here is the party:
Brogan - male human fighter7
Zero - male human rogue3/fighter3/dervish1
Hatori - male human Wu Jen7
Kyra (NPC) - female wood elf favored soul7
Raghne - male human druid5/wilderness rogue2
Tire - Raighne's wold companion
Oddly enough, there were no requests for non-standard (or even non-human) races. Everyone wanted that extra feat and skill points.
The only con I've found so far is that there seems to be a high value of random treasure. I've started tracking wealth-by-level and found that the fighter and rogue and soaking up alot of items, while the wu jen is coming out a bit thin. Starting with HTBM, I've begun tailoring the random treasure items (those not part of a bad guy's possessions). Hopefully, that will trim things up a bit.
Thanks for all the input.
-Skeld
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I just want to come in and pimp SCAP because it’s not receiving as many mentions as the other two right now. SCAP is still in my opinion the most organized and consistent of the APs and is the only one that benefits from both a hardcover version and the work of people over at theRPGenius.com.
Just look at theRPGenius.com and you will see that the vast majority of the discussion and added content that showed up there is for SCAP. I feel this is because the AP had the most room for added content because the backdrop we are provided with is so well done. Everyone else had pointed out that AoW and STAP are good for particular genres, so I would like to say that SCAP is good for a campaign that is supposed to be heavy on interaction and role-play and for players that really want to build something and make a huge impact they can see develop over time.
SCAP is also very consistent. What I mean by this is that players will come into the game knowing they are going to be dealing with Cauldron and its environs. It's a "city" campaign that stays that way the whole time (except for two occasions where the party moves off plane). AoW and STAP both take a long time to reveal what their point is. I still argue that STAP is NOT a pirates of the high sea campaign since only really two adventures remotely involve the boat and around the halfway point it just becomes a massive plane-hopping extravaganza which can leave some pirate PCs kind of out of their element.
I just want to come in and pimp SCAP
I know Shackled City better than the others because I am currently adapting and prepping it for play as my next campaign. It is a great urban intrigue game and really does make the party care about what happens to the city of Cauldron. There are some weak points but, as has already been said, the fact that they are so easily fixed is testament to the integrity of the series.
I think what is most impressive is the amount of fan support that all three of these series have accumulated. It really shows how good all three of them are that so many have embraced them instead of just complaining that they took up page space in the magazines.
I have played in SCAP (and kibitzed on the GM's other SCAP campaign) and run AoW. Haven't tried STAP yet, so I can only speak to the first two.
AoW is in my opinion *much* easier to run; SCAP needs a lot of fixing. Its parts are not strongly connected together, and the PCs have trouble finding out what they are doing. The PCs are sometimes asked to do things that aren't likely to be reasonable for them (not just hard things, but things that get "Are you crazy? We'd never do that" in-character reactions). Except for a couple of TPK hotspots, AoW runs fairly smoothly. The PCs seemed quite clear on what they were doing and why.
On the other hand, for all our troubles with it I was excited by SCAP all the way through to where the game fell apart (around module 9 of 12). After the first two modules (which were excellent) I rapidly lost interest in AoW. The grand evil just didn't seem that grand. We quit around module 11 of 12 because the fights were taking a long time and neither GM nor player was excited by what was happening anymore. It all seemed rather cut and dried. They'd known what they were trying to accomplish since early on, and there was no ambiguity, no moral questions, no chance of anything really changing. Just do or die.
SCAP has a much stronger sense of setting. Part of my dissatisfaction with AoW may have been that the big-city parts in #4 and #5 are set in "insert your city of choice here" rather than a setting defined in the modules. I did not have a pre-developed city handy and so this city did not come to life for us at all. Cauldron did: the PCs were strongly connected to it.
Good luck with your game, whatever you pick!
Mary
IMO, best all-time D&D campaigns, in no particular order:
- Giant Series
- Drow Series
- Temple of Elemental Evil
- Slave Lords
- Savage Tide
- Age of Worms
- Shackled City
Others might be able to think of others, but I can't. It's interesting to me (but unsurprising) that there are no 2/e campaigns on the list, and no WotC 3/e campaigns.
The Grand Conjunction was pretty good with some really strong moments. It was Ravenloft but that's okay, and there was some discrepancy with the levels but it was easy to rearrange things a little and make it work, the middle 2 adventures need to be moved to the beginning but can be done so without difficulty.
Rod of Seven Parts was pretty good and so was Night Below and Tale of the Comet and Dark Sun's City by the Silt Sea.
It's true that most of the 2nd Ed stuff was not as solid as the earlier material and while there were some standouts in the 3.0/3.5 adventures the series have been lackluster. The real power of 2nd Ed adventures were in Planescape. Writers that have gone on to make big names for themselves were part of that line. The adventure anthologies like Dead Gods and Tales for the Infinite Staircase really matched pace with the classics from 1st Ed.
The only series I have been excited about as a whole that has come out of WotC is Eberron's first series (The Forgotten Forge, Shadows of the Last War, Whisper of the Vampire's Blade and Grasp of the Emerald Claw). However, the series is in Eberron and becomes overpowering very quickly if taken to a new setting.