Director of Narrative
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Let's say JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt advances to 4th level and puts a point into constitution. This bump is enough to raise the modifier. Does he gain hps retroactively or just from then on? I know skill points don't, so I would think not, but I'm not finding the page immediately.
Page numbers anyone?
You should gain the HP retroactively from the increase, so you'll gain HP equal to your die roll plus current modifier plus 3 for previous levels. Mind you I don't have the book in front of me just now, but that's what I remember from 3.0 and presume no one altered it with 3.5 (not a big deal, but I have a monk that it would make a difference with).
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Let's say JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt advances to 4th level and puts a point into constitution. This bump is enough to raise the modifier. Does he gain hps retroactively or just from then on? I know skill points don't, so I would think not, but I'm not finding the page immediately.
Page numbers anyone?
I don't have a page number for you, but yes, you gain hit points retroactively. This is why barbarians gain 2 hit points per HD when they rage. Their Constitution increases by 4, which boosts their CON modifier by 2. This translates into 2 additional hit points per hit die. At higher levels of barbarian, when the CON boost increases, so do the hit points.
If it didn't work that way, amulets of health would be kind of worthless, wouldn't they?
Pretty much any time your CON modifier changes, either negatively or positively, your HP changes per point per HD.
Again no page! But the d20srd.org has the vebage under the Constitution description.
"If a character’s Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character’s hit points also increase or decrease accordingly."
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Why does constitution give you its benefit retroactively and intelligence does not? This has never come up because I have never bumped my con. Is this one of those 3.0 holdovers that no one notices was taken out of the rules until it comes up?
I'm not sure what the reasoning is, but I can understand it from a logical standpoint:
Retroactive skill points would make it possible for your character to spontaneously learn things whenever he boosted his Intelligence and then strangely forget them whenever he incurred an INT penalty due to the sudden gaining and then losing of skill points. Think of it this way:
Character puts on headband of intellect +4: "Aha! I've suddenly learned the secrets of the planes! I know exactly how to get us out of here!" After he describes the plan, he removes the headband and places his helm of telepathy or whatever else he wants back on his head and continues on, having abruptly forgotten the great mysteries of the universe.
With CON, you boost it and you get heartier. You take a penalty, and you are sickened. It's pretty much instantaneous and it doesn't have a whole bunch of logic-defying shenanigans affiliated with it.
Why does constitution give you its benefit retroactively and intelligence does not? This has never come up because I have never bumped my con. Is this one of those 3.0 holdovers that no one notices was taken out of the rules until it comes up?
Because Con boosts are easy to figure: +/- 1 hp per HD per modifier increase. There's also a boost to Fort saves and some skills, but otherwise, that's it.
Imagine the horrid, mind-shredding nightmare of trying to refigure skill points if your Int boost to skill points was retroactive, too. Particularly if you're multiclassed. It kind of gets into the same reason that headbands of intellect don't increase skill points- too many questions arise when you ask "What happens when I take it off?"
Granted, the fact that skill points don't increase retroactively can make things more difficult at times. Nevertheless, Con alterations work backwards because it's easy (and a simple mechanic to base things like Rage off of), and Int doesn't because figuring skill points can be a nightmare.
Only permanent increases affect INT modifier bonus skill points.
I'm not sure if this is a house rule someone said and I picked up because it made sense... but it makes sense in the fact that you could really blow up your skills with a Fox's Cunning and load up on INT magic items and get +10 skill points each time you leveled, then discard them afterwards... not really sure how "gamebreaking" that is but it seemed silly.
If non-permanent magic or magic item bonuses affected skill points, you'd have a nightmare booking on again/off again magic items and spells.
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3.5e Player's Handbook, page 9: "If a character's Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character's hit points also increase or decrease accordingly."
Page 10 specifically mentions that you do not retroactively gain skill points for increasing your intelligence.
I would also point out that Bear's Endurance specifically mentions gaining hit points in the list of what is impacted when you gain Constitution. The way it is worded supports the position that changes in Constitution change a character's HP retroactively.
Imagine the horrid, mind-shredding nightmare of trying to refigure skill points if your Int boost to skill points was retroactive, too. Particularly if you're multiclassed. It kind of gets into the same reason that headbands of intellect don't increase skill points- too many questions arise when you ask "What happens when I take it off?"
Heh, this would be interesting minmaxing item...when you have got some levels, putting ranks in any skill with reasonably long use time would become pointless...you just take your Headband of intellect and say you put your newfound skill ranks to skill you need, be it craft, knowledge, perform or whatever...then you take it off, put it back on and take the next skill you need :) At which point DM decides to destroy all +INT items in the game.
Intelligence can be considered also how quickly you learn things, so if in the past you were dumber than you are now, you didn't learn as many things then so your newfound intellect does not do anything else for the past. However, constitution is not as dependent on the past, your current condition is not greatly affected by measles you had ten years ago.
What about headbands of intellect and bonus spells? There's nothing in the section of the PHB which discusses Intelligence that precludes the gaining of bonus spells per day from the use of an ability booster, nor is such a clause mentioned in the DMG under the headband's entry itself. I've always ruled that such an item does give bonus spells. Is this correct?
If so, what happens when the item is removed? The bonus spells are lost, surely, but what about when the player puts the thing back on. Can he then take the 15 minutes to refill his "new-found" spell slots with whatever spells he wants, or does he have to wait until the next day? The latter is what my ruling would be, as it negates any min-maxing possibility.
Finally, what rules would be invoked to yank a heaband of intellect from an enemy mage? I'd think a grapple. (Although, to be truthful, if you are that close and capable of grappling, it's probably more expedient just to do hit point damage and kill the guy- but sometimes it's not about efficiency; sometimes it's about getting players to hate you!) >:)
Contributor
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I allow characters to gain retroactive skill points when their INT improves permanently, but not from enhancements. Likewise, I don't deduct skill points when a character takes INT damage or drain, but if their INT was permanently reduced I would.
I agree that this rule was written to avoid a bookkeepping nightmare and to avoid INT enahancemant abuse.
I allow characters to get bonus spells from stat enhancing items or effects as follows: The effect must be on when spells are prepared/ or slots are recovered through rest. If the effect is stopped in between, the slots are lost and cannot be regained until after resting with the effect on. I have no idea where the RAW stands on this one.
One of the times I actually like the FAQ ruling:
Do ability enhancing items (such as the headband of intellect, cloak of charisma, and periapt of wisdom) grant bonus spells to the appropriate spellcasters? The spells these items are based on would seem to prohibit it, but the only things specifically addressed in the item descriptions are skill points.
Yes, you can get extra bonus spells if you have an item that increases the ability score that governs your spellcasting. To get the extra bonus spells, you must wear the item while resting to regain spells and all through your initial daily preparations for spellcasting. (Even characters who don’t prepare spells need to meditate a little while at the beginning of the day; see Daily Readying of spells under the Sorcerers and bards section of Chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.)
If you lose the item, you immediately lose the bonus spell slots the item gave you, starting with any uncast spells you have of the appropriate levels.
So, you gain the extra spells, but only if the item is used while resting/preparing. Lose the item, then the spells are gone until you rest/prepare again. Simple to implement.
And for grabbing that headband of intellect...
Grabbing Items
You can use a disarm action to snatch an item worn by the target. If you want to have the item in your hand, the disarm must be made as an unarmed attack. If the item is poorly secured or otherwise easy to snatch or cut away the attacker gets a +4 bonus. Unlike on a normal disarm attempt, failing the attempt doesn’t allow the defender to attempt to disarm you. This otherwise functions identically to a disarm attempt, as noted above.
You can’t snatch an item that is well secured unless you have pinned the wearer (see Grapple). Even then, the defender gains a +4 bonus on his roll to resist the attempt.
I can see where a permanent bonus to Intelligence can add to skill points based on level. As it provides a deeper pool with which the character can draw upon past experiences. The suddenly gained points would have to be distributed among skills already known (unless they are completely maxed out), or you could argue that the new points represent sudden understanding in things that were explained to him earlier.
"If I have two beans and I add two more beans, what do I have?"
"Some beans."
"Yes... and no. If I have two beans and I add two more beans, what does that make?"
"A very small casserole."
"Baldric, the ape creatures of the Indus have mastered this skill. If I have two beans and I add two more beans, I have one... two... three... four! So how many are there?"
"Three..."
"What?!?"
"...and that one."
"Three... and that one... So if I add that bean to the other three, what do I have?"
"Oh... some beans."
-Black Adder and Baldric
You can also limit the newfound skill points to class skills, as that would represent the things that the character was exposed to during training. It also prevents things like the sudden ability of Fighters to Tumble, especially if the fighter is between levels and has no one to learn from.
Thanks for the info everyone. We have agreed that a boost in CON adds your modifier per hit die. So at my most recent level I got my HD roll of 9, plus 8 additional HP(8th level character) because my CON increased.
With our DM we can always use as many HP as possible.
Why does constitution give you its benefit retroactively and intelligence does not? This has never come up because I have never bumped my con. Is this one of those 3.0 holdovers that no one notices was taken out of the rules until it comes up?
Because WotC has made a number of inconsistent rulings and this is another example of one of them. For what its worth, you gain skill benefits retroactively in the new Star Wars edition game, so my hunch is “The World’s Most Popular Roleplaying Game” will follow suit.
