In WoW, there are a great many quests and professions that require one to go on "Easter egg hunts" throughout a region and collect various objects from the local environment. Sometimes you have to loot them from the bodies of foes, sometimes you have to find them on the ground. The ones on the ground provide an interesting break from simply combatting everything you see.
However, I have trouble conceptualizing how to put this "mechanic" into D&D. Say you have to find 5 Magic Stones in the Forest. Do you just set a DC and ask for Search or Survival checks until 5 succeed? Simply accompanying this with a description of the Forest and a roll for random encounters? Or is there another way to do it?
In a computer game, with its graphics, one can simply look over at a tree and think "I'm going to look over there." You can walk around the tree and search, and then see a rock and decide to go search there. However, tabletop D&D doesn't seem well set up to accomodate such an experience of searching and exploring.
This is different than ransacking the BBEG's warchest for plans; the searching for them isn't part of the "experience," killing the BBEG and claiming victory was.
Likewise, it's somewhat different when one places such an "Easter egg hunt" outdoors, as is often the case, as opposed to inside of a building. One can more easily map a building and know exactly what the party will see where. However, in an outdoor setting, spaces tend to be wider, and if you actually want a hunt through a forest, describing it in the same manner as one would look through a house for a book seems impractical.
There's another issue related to this, as well. In WoW, I've played a character with Herbalism for a very long time. I go around picking flowers. How would you accomplish this in D&D? Simply roll a d%? A Survival check? Search? Profession (herbalist)? Knowledge (nature)?
In WoW, the various plants that can be picked grow in specific locations: even a low level character will soon learn to look for Peacebloom in a field, Silverleaf at the base of a tree, and Earthroot on an exposed hillside. Once more, how does one implement this experience into D&D, both when a character actively searches for such thing, or passively finds it while traveling? How do you determine frequency and amount found?
I suppose one can load such an "adventure" or side quest with coincedental events: having to make a climb check to get up the hill, random encounters with wandering monsters, etc. But is it impossible to create that same feeling in D&D that one has in an MMO of simply looking around to find something, without necessarily anything else happening? Or is that the province of games with graphics alone?
But I'm not finished! Hunting- this has been a difficult issue for me for some time. The party has often desired to venture into the wilderness to claim the bounty on krenshar pelts or to find a wyvern to milk its poison.
Does one simply roll on random encounter charts until one pops up? Certainly Survival and Track seem applicable here, perhaps in increasing the chances of encountering the creature on random rolls, decreasing the odds of other wandering monsters. But how do you make it interesting and provide a good play experience that isn't just a series of rolls?
A DM could make a small adventure with scripted events, certainly, but that takes a lot of time and just doesn't seem to have the same feel. I would like crafting a hunting adventure if the party is after the Feather of the Silver Griffon, and it's a long perilous journey to its nest. But if they or an NPC patron needs troll's blood for something, it seems a little... cheap, I suppose... to craft a big adventure to simply track and find one troll, which isn't that uncommon of a creature in most standard games.
It could even be simpler- the ranger wants to hunt down a wolf for its pelt to make his cloak from. Except at very low levels, this would be an easy task. So, how does one make it exciting, though it's not challenging?
I'm also thinking about this as the kind of stuff that players want to do on an impromptu basis. So, I'm also kind of looking at it with an eye towards being able to pull these things off more or less on the spot, by the seat of my pants.
However, and finally, something else that probably is more likely to be prepared and not so spontaneous is exploration in general. Say the party has to go to Far Valley, the wooded region beyond the mountains which few have ever been to and no maps of which exist. There they have to find the Special Plant for the alchemist/herbalist/physician/floral decorator.
Is there a way to make it exciting without having to throw in monster combats? And can one make it exciting without necessarily loading Far Valley with streams and cliffs that must be navigated with Swim and Climb checks? How does one simply make the player's walking through and mapping Far Valley interesting?
Certainly, it would be poor DMing to just say, "Okay, you go to the valley, and eventually you find the plant and come back." But, what else can you do to spice up exploration, hunting, and easter egg hunts without loading the "adventure" with coincidental skill checks and "random" encounters?
I don't really have a solution for you in fact I would mostly caution against this whole line of reasoning.
Roll some dice - hand wave it and get it out of the way fast. Thats my suggestion. Now I don't play WOW, but are you seriously telling me that wandering around looking for exposed hills with some kind of a plant growing there was a fun and fulfilling part of your gaming experience?
I honestly have a hard time believing that this could in any way manage to stack up to the experience of interacting with NPCs, fighting monsters, avoiding traps, or B&Eing the local countess' house to steal her gem encrusted unmentionables.
It just does not sound like fun - there has got to be a better way to spend your game time then this sort of thing. I'd work out some appropriate DCs keyed to some appropriate skills and roll some dice. If your hunting Troll or Wyvern and you make the correct checks to find the creatures lair then playing out the fight might be worth while but thats as far as I would go with this and really.
Even going this far is only something I'd do if my players friggen insisted and I'd let them know their wasting my time to boot.
If your great quest is go find a troll and kill it, well that kind of sounds a little lame for an adventure. Either have an interesting troll encounter as part of an adventure or don't have the troll requirement in the first place. Anytime the adventure has devolved into "Ok you guys find a troll...umm will some one pass me the monster manual?" is a point when I think your adventure has degenerated into a really mundane game - your doing this instead of exploring the Whispering Cairn? Why?
well, are you talking about collecting deer pelts or something rare and exotic? The problem with most herb collecting in D&D is that most people do not have a list of what potions require what ingrediants and where said ingrediants grow; in WoW you have a recipe for every pot and it tells what is required; same with every other skill recipe. I have seen very little like this from any published article on D&D; but, many of us gm's have our own lists and whatnot. I have run quite a few "collect ingrediants for npc" type adventures way before wow was a wet dread and they seem to be quite enjoyable to the players. I have never run an adventure; kill 50 of X creature and return for a reward like wow; seems like a silly premise.
the big thing about collection type quests is determining how common or rare the item is and how familiar the main collector is with the item; then how large is it so that anyone can spot it with said DC rating. The hardest type quests would be a rare small flower that blooms only at night on a dangerous, but rare plant that grows deep in the swamp on a lillypad during only two months of the year. This sort of quest is a real challenge and can be very dangerous, thus the reward should be equally wonderful. Swamps have lots of encounters, not all of them should be combats unless your party is just psychotic.
I am not certain about the question of making these fun; any adventure can be fun if it has sufficient challenge to the players and provides them an good chance of using a number of their skills; and survival is always a hoot.
In WoW, I've played a character with Herbalism for a very long time. I go around picking flowers. How would you accomplish this in D&D? Simply roll a d%? A Survival check? Search? Profession (herbalist)? Knowledge (nature)?
In one of the ICE Middle Earth setting books (can't remember off the top of my head which one, but I'll dig it out if you're really that interested) they had a list of plants with magical or healing properties, complete with the climate and terrain necessary for it to grow, what it looks like, what part of the plant was used, and how to prepare it. I changed the properties to better fit D&D and make them more useful and have a list made up that also includes a % chance of finding the plant with a Herblism proficiency (I'm guessing there's an herbalism skill or something corresponding in 3E).
So, while most of my players just look to shop for them at a local herbalism store, others like to look for the raw ingredients when they're out and about in the countryside. They tell me they want to look for them, then I make a % check for what might be in the area based on climate and terrain. They can either sell them for funds, keep them for use, or try to concoct something new with them if they have the right proficiencies.
I actually decided to introduce them as a way for low level characters to find some relatively inexpensive low level healing stuff to help keep them alive. Now, they tend to shop for herbs more than they do magical potions.
If you happen to need/want rules for Herbalism, try Alchemy&Herbalism by Bastion Press. Given time, you could produce quite a few magical or quasi-magical items. There are also some rules for finding and using plants in there that might help your cause. But be ready to start adding more skill points to your herbalism if you do that route; some of the DCs are in the 40s.
hmm; my post dissappeared.
Saern as far as collecting quests in WOW. Consider why games make quests like this in the first place. They are extreamly easy to program and create compared to filling an entire dungeon out. They're just filler man.
For hunting, you will need to ask for track. Or ask for a wilderness check to find a high traffic area for the critter and ask for our plan to draw said creature into our ambush. Hide checks, bluff checks, illusionary prey, traps and snares and pits, planety of fun to be had here.
In almost any environment you could imagine a native creature will be able to outmanuver most of your party. Deer and wolves and such typically run much faster than humans. Small targets can go into thick brush, up trees, in small holes and generally are very close to a good escape route. Swamp dwellers can slip into mud and bogs, desert creatures burrow through sand or dart into cacti patches.
If you want stuff like this to be fun then play up the tension that comes with springing the trap or ambush. After all, like hunting in real life, your first shot is usually what determines success or failure for you venture.
If you want to make finding something like a rare plant a quest then do all the searching ahead of time. Don't sit their rolling a dice "nope you don't find it today", "or tommorrow", "or the next day". Make sure the party understands how much time it is likely to take, make sure they're comfortable with the maximum time wasted and then just say
"for two and a half weeks you stumble through the harsh jungle, surviving the humid, poison riddled land only through the expert guidance of your ranger companion, who day ater day secures exotic nourishment and adequate shelter to sustain you in your quest for the Ghost Lotus Tree before your journey yeilds any results."
You can make any job or quest exciting easily. If the item is valuable enough to attract PCs then it can attract others covetous forces as well. But these are likely encounters with NPC's. That is what will amke collection quests fun, as was mentioned above, picking flowers is boring.
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Before I give my (helpful!) advice I should admit a few things:
First, I don't like computer games because there is absolutely no substance. Sheep like pretty graphics - sheep look at pretty graphics. For hours... I'd like to think that playing D&D helps us get out of Plato's Cave. Meanwhile, Warcrack keeps the sheep inside looking at the shadows on the wall.
Second, I don't like really long posts so I only read part of your question, Saern. I'll try to keep mine short.
All this being said I think there are ways to bring some elements from WOW to your game. I give most Players a little extra info to go with their PCs -- to let them get into character. For example, I gave a ranger a list of mushroom and fungus descriptions along with a little info. Now, every once in a while the group comes across some mushrooms; I describe the scene to the group and the Ranger, instead of just saying "I roll such & such," grabs his PC folder to look at the list and tells the party what to avoid. This becomes especially helpful when a PC (way later in the game) contracts some kind of disease that I don't want divine magic to beat. I make the ranger do a check and depending on his result let him know exactly which, or maybe which mushrooms he can start looking for. This kind of thing can be really fun when you describe something not on his list. PC always get really scared; they become frozen with indecision for an encounter.
Now, you're a smart guy, Saern, (if you want) you can figure how to adapt this line of thinking to a list of spell components, a list of the best oils or greeses for a fighter's armor, a paragraph of inside info of a cult or religious practice to the Cleric, etc.
-W. E. Ray
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Describing things in the woods should not be too different from describing things in a dungeon or city. If you want to speed up the plot only describe 1 or 2 things; the PCs will investigate those and move the campaign forward. If you want them to take some time and face some puzzle or mystery-like challenges, describe many things, most of which have nothing to do with the campaign's story, and, of course, add some red herrings too.
-W. E. Ray
Yes, I do find WoW fun, and the herbalism rewarding because one quickly learns the terrain said plants are located in. It's another level of immersion. But I agree that it can't compare to D&D, though. :) The point was more about simulating the searching as a quest element, as opposed to really making D&D more "WoW-like." I don't see a reason this can't be fun and challenging (and maybe a little frustrating), just like any combat.
But, I know from experience (and Sexi, too, unfortunately), that simply walking through a swamp rolling check after check after check is boring.
However, so often it seems that the searching is glossed over, the PCs get to the rare item, but that's not the danger; the danger is the monster that happens to be near it. That seems a bit cliche and cheap to me. Why can't the rare herb just be hard to find? Maybe there are some incidental combats or things along the way, but I hate it when that serves as the sole source of challenge in acquiring the thing.
As far as why are they out hunting things when they could be exploring the Whispering Cairn: I like to portray a world that moves with or without the PCs. The poster declaring bounties on krenshars is up in the town, and if the party wants to go after it, they can. Not everything is scaled to their level (some things are much easier, just as some things are much harder). And not everything has to do with the ultimate plot of the campaign, or is even an epic event. The PCs can have everyday experiences, too.
But, looking back over the Savage Tide has actually provided me with the inspiration/answer I was looking for, particularly Into the Lightless Depths and the earlier one on the Sea Wyvern (the name of which escapes me): as suggested earlier, a layout of sites not unlike a dungeon, but without walls and significant distance between the "rooms," and perhaps no linear structure. At first, I was having trouble conceptualizing how the relatively boundless nature of a forest (again, no walls/doors/etc.) could possibly be made like a dungeon, but once again, Dungeon magazine has come to the rescue and given me a great idea to boost... er, implement.
Sorry for the rambly thread.
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This is pretty lame but maybe it'll give you some inspiration for what you're looking for.
PCs need to find a rare herb.
They go to a rural village where someone may know something. Gather Info and a little rollplay indicates the presence of a Ranger hermit but no one knows where he lives. PCs have to either track, speak w/ animals, divine location or something to find the Ranger's general location.
While looking deep in the wilds describe many, many things to the PCs -- most unimportant stuff but a few that give clues to Ranger's "lair." Give PCs random encounters appropriate to the ecology of the woods. Meanwhile, PCs should be writting down all kinds of plant (tall purple flowers) and geographic (large obelisk-like rock) descriptions because some will lead them to the Ranger.
Eventually they find the Ranger's cabin and have to do a great bit of diplomacy to get him not to attack them for tresspassers. He doesn't know where the herb is so he gives them an impossible mission (kill orc tribe in caves) -- promising to tell them of the herb when they succeed. But, of course, they succeed and return. He admits his ploy, apoligizes, and tells them perhaps "the famous hierophant" can help. He gives them and ancient, extremely ambiguous map and bids them "goodluck; hope to never see you on my property again."
PCs take the map handout with all kinds of wacko descriptions and using speak w/ animals, divination magic, etc., plus all the clues they wrote down from when they were looking for the Ranger, come up with an idea for where the druid might be. More random encounters while they search.
Anyway, throw in a treant, dryad, remote elf thorp, etc., each with more plant and geographic descriptions (clues) nearby. Eventually they have all kinds of info on their own mpa that they can use to make their own decisions on where to look for the druid.
Then, the druid turns out to be a mute halfling and communicating with her is very difficult. Ultimately she "informs" them what combination of plants to look for because the rare herb often grows nearby. The PCs can now, because of their knowledge of the larger terrain, find the rare herb.
Just make sure it's crucial for the PCs to find the herb and, more importantly, that there's no time pressure.
-W. E. Ray
PS. Sorry for the long post ;)
No problem.
And I realize I forgot to add in my earlier post that a lot of these adventures are often player-initiated, catching me by surprise and thus not having to wing them. But, as I've said several times already, I'd like to still be able to play up the searching aspect. And again, Dungeon's layout (also found in Here There Be Monsters) provides a fairly good "template."