I have a Rogue and I was thinking that after 20th I should go Shadow Dancer for 1 level to get hide in plain sight and then Ranger for 3 levels for the track, Endurance and fav enemy, But then I don’t know where to go?
I know you’re thinking are you really going much further then 24? Yes!
I think will go for a long time after 24 I think 30 or 34 or even further so I have time to build a cool guy I was just wondering what you all thought?
Swashbuckler has something to offer for every Rogue. Depending on what you're character is like Hexblade could be a good choice. Shadowdancer is definitley a good idea although I would take it to the 3rd level because then you get a Shadow that serves you which can be very useful. A few levels in Sorcerer or Wizard (or mabye even Bard) would get you access to the Arcane Trickster PrC from the DMG. What race is the character? What kind of character is it? If you would like I can design you a good Rogue build to the 30th and 34th levels (Rogues are something of a speciality for me).
I believe a good PrC to always take for any rogue would be the Invisible Blade (Complete Warrior). You just have to use kukris, daggers, or punching daggers to get all the bonuses. Not only does the Invisible Blade get full attack bonus, it also gets full sneak attack damage and can give you an easy way to actually get a sneak attack off without all the flanking and whatnot. All you have to do is feint, and when you get to 5th lvl in it, you get feint as I believe either a move action or a free action.
It's probably one of the best rogue PrC's out there. And if I'm not mistaken it also isn't really hard to get into, you just need a few feats and some other easy stuff to get so getting in isn't a problem at all.
Sir Smashes Alot
|
Swashbuckler has something to offer for every Rogue. Depending on what you're character is like Hexblade could be a good choice. Shadowdancer is definitley a good idea although I would take it to the 3rd level because then you get a Shadow that serves you which can be very useful. A few levels in Sorcerer or Wizard (or mabye even Bard) would get you access to the Arcane Trickster PrC from the DMG. What race is the character? What kind of character is it? If you would like I can design you a good Rogue build to the 30th and 34th levels (Rogues are something of a speciality for me).
Actaris
Will be playing a Deep Gnome Illusionist/Rogue come this June. I was considering switching rogue to assassin later on. Any builds you could suggest for optimum usability? This will be the first time for me to play the race/classes. He will tend to favor the dark side, possibly neutral evil. I can give you more specifics if need be. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Thoth-Amon
Twistyllama:
I would suggest taking one level in fighter, mabye not even that. A better choice would probably be the Urban Ranger variant in Unearthed Arcana. You get the Urban Tracking feat, Combat Style, Favored Enemy, skill points almost as good as those of a Rogue, hit points almost as good as a Fighter and the Fighter's BAB. If you are set on taking some Fighter levels I would suggest taking two. That gets you two bonus feats. If you take Fighter level 3 than you don't get the bonus feat but you do get the very low skill points. The BAB and hit points just don't justify that. Have you taken Improved Initiative? That is a must for Rogues as it gives you a better chance of going first and therefore getting a Sneak Attack before you're opponents can go.
Thoth-Amon: I would suggest taking at least 5 levels of Wizard and then 3 levels of Rogue. This allows you to qualify for the Arcane Trickster PrC in the DMG. Here is a 20 level build for you.
Illusionist 5/Rogue 3/Arcane Trickster 7/ Assassin 5. I'm not sure if Deep Gnomes have a LA so that might change things. The specialization in Illusion (with Evocation and either Conjuration or Necromancy as forbidden schools) would work best becuase of the Gnome's bonuses with Illusion and the many uses for Illusion that an assassin/thief type character would have. Arcane Trickster allows you to do an Impromptu Sneak Attack (you declare an attack to be a Sneak Attack and your foe is flat-footed for your next attack) twice per day at the 7th level in addition to improving you're sneak attack and caster level and giving you some nice special abilities like Ranged Ledgermain. Hope this helps and if there is anything else I can assist you with involving Rogueish characters just let me know.
I'll post more thoughts on some Rogue builds for both of you as I think of them.
I'd say don't multiclass too much. I give 2 reasons for this:
- 1) You seem to be looking for class abilities rather than the roleplaying part of multiclassing. Changing "professions", as it were, so many times can be problematic from a roleplaying standpoint. There has to be a reason your character is taking on this training, and extra time for him to take on these very different skills.
- 2) Multiclassing does not give you the full benefits of the second class. Especially at such high levels, the lower power abilities of a Lv 1 class is not very usefull. I have a player whose character has multiclassed into a wizard/archavist/psion for thematic reasons, and its good from the roleplaying standpoint, but his spellcasting/manifesting power is not always strong enough for some of the higher CR creatures with good will saves or SR etc. I'd especially avoid taking on a spellcasting class in epic levels for this reason.
If you have access to the Epic Level Handbook, I would suggest Pefect Wight, as it seems to fit in with your stealth theme. If not, stick with Shadowdancer.
I have a Rogue and I was thinking that after 20th I should go Shadow Dancer for 1 level to get hide in plain sight and then Ranger for 3 levels for the track, Endurance and fav enemy, But then I don’t know where to go?
I know you’re thinking are you really going much further then 24? Yes!
I think will go for a long time after 24 I think 30 or 34 or even further so I have time to build a cool guy I was just wondering what you all thought?
Prestige Class.
Ranger is great- but unless you're just looking to get into base level combat that the rest of the party isn't completely covering, have a major type of enemy in the campaign you can take as favored, really really want a bonus combat style feat with martial weapons, track and endurance- ranger isn't probably worth it considering XP penalties. after 20 you should be going Epic anyway, but you don't have to I suppose. I usually dip into Rogue for Skill points and sneak attack- sticking with it for sneak attack can be brutal- especially when combined with other abilities from classes/variants with other useful abilities.
Hiding in plain sight isn't totally over rated- I second the consideration of the Invisible Blade, but would also suggest looking into other PrCs as options. (still feinting as an 18th level rogue Invisible blade 5 or whatever would be badass and you'd get sneak attack out to finish the job fast.)
You might consider Assassin for the Death Attack option.
I'm going with an Unearthed Arcana variant Sleeping Tiger Monk based off a Rog1Rgr2 (a potent low armor dip multi-class build IMO, though you sacrifice BAB for special stuff.)
At 18th level, you don't have to worry about BAB so much, but getting extra damage is always good. Still I suppose you'll be looking around for options to overcome higher level baddies who might be immune to critical hits or extra damage/sneak attack.
Ranger for 2 or 3 levels is a good dip, but Ranger past that gets good enough to keep using, just not so much worth it without investment in a second supportive class like Rogue or Fighter if you have the stats- I had a rgr/cleric who didn't make it past 4th, but I would have probably kept Ranger going if it would prove useful later...assuming spell levels wouldn't be the preferred option. It was a wilderness setting- so I did okay, but was killed by stupid teammates. (2 characters played by one guy with half a brain...and a first at playing d&d kid.)
Though it nerfs BAB a bit, a plain Ranger/Monk combo could be considered- but as you and the rest of the thread are looking at Rogue combos- I'll just recommend the Sleeping Tiger variant. (no Ranger lvl's required really, but it is nice to have a use for the Wisdom and Dex in Longbow rocking and sneaky tracking.)
I'll assume you're Human, but do consider favored class if going with anything other than PrC additions.
Again, I might suggest sticking with Shadow Dancer until that runs out (or Invisible blade, even Assassin if it gets enough stack potential), but Rogue/Ranger is a classic skill & secondary combatant set up. You get in quiet, you hit them hard when they don't expect you, get the first shot, etc.
Honestly, I'd rather have decent light armor than burn my high stat on Monk AC, but I had good stats and in the game setting no chance of getting decent armor- if any armor.
Always stay true to the character build, use limitations and strengths to that advantage. If taking a rank/feat/skill in something the character wouldn't do, have access to, or pick up quickly, don't bother I say. Go with what works for you and what helps your character do his part in the party.
EDIT: I could have just seconded Dirk's comments.
Yeah, low-level add-ons aren't worth it, PrC at 20th level might as well not be worth it, Epic if allowed or go to town with a SINGLE PrC or Straight Rogue build focusing on specialized feats, skills and tactics. Remember Special Attacks and tactics are an underused part of the game- and never underestimate the rogue's ability to sneak attack and flank for extra damage. "denied their dex bonus" -works very well I'll say.
Favored Enemy- I should point out- only gives you a few +2's, which are hardly significant at 18th level onward. Yes, +2 can make the difference against a DRAGON or some other difficult opponent, but by 18th level your rogue shouldn't even have too much difficulty with higher level undead being immune to sneak attacks...Essentially find a PrC with favored Enemy or do something else. Like Dirk said and I tried to get across with the character concept rant above, fishing for class abilities is a good way to lose a feel for a character. I have a multiclass Fighter/(Sub)Urban Ranger (basically more Ranger than even Revised Urban Ranger), and I often enough forget to even apply Favored Enemy bonuses- which get worthwhile as you progress in level only if you keep going with Ranger- as you get your 2nd favored enemy, your 1st favored enemy bonuses go up. So- don't dip into Ranger at 18th or after, not worth it, see if you qualify for a Roguish/Ranger PrC. Only take 3 ranks of Ranger if you have to find some slower way of qualifying for a PrC like Bloodhound that requires Endurance and Track, and you have 1-3 levels to burn rather than a feat or two to pick up to make it.
Seriously, Ranger will barely maintain a BAB increase, give you a handful of somewhat useful abilities that'll be eclipsed by the 18 levels of Rogue you have, and a few skill points and a HD that aren't much different from Rogue. I like Ranger, it has potential, but you don't need it, if you want combat abilities and don't care about XP penalties or less about class abilities than you seem to- dip in Fighter and take the bonus feats and martial proficiencies. You can possibly afford the skill point drain for the Fort save since your Reflex save is probably pretty high- though Will might could use some boosting (thus the PrC search should be your focus, bonuses without pointless low level progressions). Even Barb (which apparently is a class I keep forgetting) would make almost as much sense as you dipping into Ranger this late in the game, but you already have uncanny dodge, don't you?
I'd just ask your DM for their suggestion, PrC if they'll allow, but you might want to stick to Shadowdancer or Core if they're picky. (Invisible Blade, again, doesn't have very steep or hard to incorporate requirements). Stealth is great, but feinting to get a sneak attack? That is brutal.