RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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This Iggwilv character seems to be something pretty special. Back when I started playing, I had my own world for Rolemaster for a long time, til we got into the Realms and started playing AD&D. Jump 10+ years further down the line and I'm back - mostly due to spotting the Savage Tide on the front of a Dungeon. Demons! Pirates! How cool is that?
Anyway - everone raves about Iggwilv but I have no clue. Where should I be looking to get the skinny?
This Iggwilv character seems to be something pretty special. Back when I started playing, I had my own world for Rolemaster for a long time, til we got into the Realms and started playing AD&D. Jump 10+ years further down the line and I'm back - mostly due to spotting the Savage Tide on the front of a Dungeon. Demons! Pirates! How cool is that?
Anyway - everone raves about Iggwilv but I have no clue. Where should I be looking to get the skinny?
Iggwilv, from Wikipedia:
Iggwilv is a powerful, fictional spellcaster, in the World of Greyhawk campaign setting for the Dungeons & Dragons role-playing game, famous for the creation of her Demonomicons. Iggwilv is known by various titles, including the Witch Queen of Perrenland and the Mother of Witches.
Iggwilv is a fierce enemy of the Circle of Eight and occasional allies include her son, Iuz, and the demoness Zuggtmoy. Iggwilv's power is so great that some contend she has achieved demigod status. Besides her awesome magical might, Iggwilv is also notoriously known for consorting with (as well as controlling and manipulating) fiends, notably demons from the Abyss. She is the mother of the demigod Iuz, sired by the demon lord Graz'zt, and also of the vampiress Drelzna (now destroyed).
Iggwilv has two forms, one of which is that of an old crone (said to be her true form), and the other, a human female of dark beauty. It is said none who have seen her in her true form still lives.
She originally appeared in S4: The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. There's more information if you follow the link. Cheers.
I'm a big fan of Iggwilv, though we've actually seen little of her. Despite that, there's an argument to be made that she is the biggest active enemy of the Circle of Eight (Mordenkainen & Company).
Of course, Wayne Reynolds did a stunning cover for Dungeon 121 of her and Graz'zt.
Regards,
Jack
Iggwilv fanboy :)
Creative Director
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Yup; she's one of the game's first evil seductive villians. Possibly the FIRST of them for the game, since Tsojcanth was one of the very first adventures. I suspect a big part of why she's so popular is a combination of the fact that she seems to have her hands in so many different evil plots, but she's never really been detailed much at all. Here's hoping that lifting the curtain on her stats in Dungeon #149 doesn't change that! <crosses fingers>
Although he never gave her stats, Gygax did gave her a fairly significant supporting role in his books, beginning with Artifact of Evil. From those sources, she appears to be on power-par with demon princes.
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Creative Director
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Although he never gave her stats, Gygax did gave her a fairly significant supporting role in his books, beginning with Artifact of Evil. From those sources, she appears to be on power-par with demon princes.
Compared to the demon lords in the Demonomicon articles in Dragon, yup; she's on par with them, CR-wise.
To me she just seems like a really good example of a female archvillain. In addition, she has certain mythic aspects (it's been implied that she is one and the same as Earth's Baba Yaga) which would work well in a campaign featuring her as a villain in which her history has to be discovered to provide some clue as to defeating her.
To me she just seems like a really good example of a female archvillain. In addition, she has certain mythic aspects (it's been implied that she is one and the same as Earth's Baba Yaga) which would work well in a campaign featuring her as a villain in which her history has to be discovered to provide some clue as to defeating her.
From what James as hinted at, Baba Yaga will be in Pathfinder. This means that she will be a different entity to Iggwilv and I'm positive that Baba Yaga's stats will eventually appear between the covers of the book.
I'm pretty sure Iggwilv is actually Baba Yaga's daughter. In fact, I know she is.
...awesome.
I'd always been under the impression that Iggwilv learned magic from Baba Yaga, but I didn't make the connection to bloodline.
She could have learned from the above or I thought I saw some where that she studied under Zagig and may have helped in the capture of the 9 Demon Lords under Castle Zagig? It may have been around that time that she wrote the Demonicon?
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Creative Director
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She could have learned from the above or I thought I saw some where that she studied under Zagig and may have helped in the capture of the 9 Demon Lords under Castle Zagig? It may have been around that time that she wrote the Demonicon?
Also true. Although they weren't all demon lords that got trapped under Castle Greyhawk.
But yeah... more information on THAT Iggwilv-related subject may just be found in "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk," due out around Gen Con from WotC...
Yes, you are right James, they were not all Demon Lords intrapped, could not remember what the others were. Can't wait to find out more about the subject when the Expedition to the Ruins book comes out! With her yrs of being around and study time that should at least put her in the range of I should say 25th-30th level! Should be 1-3 Prestige classes in there too!
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Yes, you are right James, they were not all Demon Lords intrapped, could not remember what the others were. Can't wait to find out more about the subject when the Expedition to the Ruins book comes out! With her yrs of being around and study time that should at least put her in the range of I should say 25th-30th level! Should be 1-3 Prestige classes in there too!
I've juggled the idea of her being a warlock/conjurer/eldritch theurge/archmage. The warlock levels seemed to fit given her somewhat fiendish appearance...
As little info as there is on Iggwilv, I've also wondered who exactly was Tsojcanth? Not trying to jack this thread or anything, but has anyone got any details on him/her/it? It would be much appreciated!
As little info as there is on Iggwilv, I've also wondered who exactly was Tsojcanth? Not trying to jack this thread or anything, but has anyone got any details on him/her/it? It would be much appreciated!
Before my time, but I believe that Tsojcanth was both the name of the lost caverns where the adventure that introduced Graz'zt, the behir etc. took place as well as the lich that laired in/created them. I'm sure somebody that's played it can shed more light.
Recently looked through the Lost Caverns as part of my own research on Iggy, and found no info on Tsojcanth. Someone suggested on another thread related to this topic (some time back) that Tsojcanth was a lich of Flan origin, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that that idea is canonical.
I've been thinking how to work up a campaign focused on Iggwilv as the primary villain, using mostly Dungeon adventures. Since she ties to so many major figures in the Greyhawk world, it should be fun. Might even have to bring Drelzna back from the dead. (Well, back to the undead, anyway. Of course, being a presumed casualty of adventurers in S4, her spirit may be free to come back to a living body if someone decided to true res her. Hmmmmm!) So, I'm looking forward to seeing the Witch Queen on the pages of Dungeon.
I'm pretty sure Iggwilv is actually Baba Yaga's daughter. In fact, I know she is.
Wasn't this mentioned by Owen Stephens in the article on Iggwilv in Dragon #336?
I've always been a big fan of Iggwilv and a fan of her progeny as well. I wonder if WotC are ever going to do Iuz's stats? I also fondly remember Iggwilv's daughter the vampire Drelzna (great name). I know she's dead, but vampire's have a tendancy to come back to life at the most inopportune moments! ;-)
I know the next adventure is about getting a coalition together to bring down Demogorgon but are you stating up Iggwilv for tribute or will spells and swords be flying? When I go thru and draft an NPC with Epic spells I have every intention of hitting the players with them!!!
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Creative Director
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I know the next adventure is about getting a coalition together to bring down Demogorgon but are you stating up Iggwilv for tribute or will spells and swords be flying? When I go thru and draft an NPC with Epic spells I have every intention of hitting the players with them!!!
Iggwilv is CR 30. If she attacks the PCs, it'll probably be a TPK. That said, if your PCs aren't properly respectful when they go to chat with her, she might just give you a chance to slap them around a bit.
I know the next adventure is about getting a coalition together to bring down Demogorgon but are you stating up Iggwilv for tribute or will spells and swords be flying? When I go thru and draft an NPC with Epic spells I have every intention of hitting the players with them!!!Iggwilv is CR 30. If she attacks the PCs, it'll probably be a TPK. That said, if your PCs aren't properly respectful when they go to chat with her, she might just give you a chance to slap them around a bit.
CR 30 wow!!! That means she could handle Dragotha and if I'm not mistaken she is more powerful then Mordenkanien (Epic book listed him around 24, can't recall).
Why that means she even might be a match for a certain all powerful, all knowing invincible Sage from Shadowdale?
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CR 30 wow!!! That means she could handle Dragotha and if I'm not mistaken she is more powerful then Mordenkanien (Epic book listed him around 24, can't recall).Why that means she even might be a match for a certain all powerful, all knowing invincible Sage from Shadowdale?
Mordenkainen is a level 27 wizard (CR 27) in the Epic Level Handbook. But if you were to use those statistics, Iggwilv would eat him for lunch. He is a level 27 wizard with only 21 intelligence! (actually 27, 21+headband of intellect +6), and he is equipped largely as an NPC would be, but with one artifact, the largely combat useless "silver key of portals".
Elmo the Sage is a Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Cleric 3/Wizard 24/Archmage 5, with a CR of 39, but is not very well thought out. His first six levels would have no impact what so ever on an epic level spellduel. His CR is terribly out of proportion, toss a CR 40 force dragon his way and watch the hurting commence... His intelligence is 27, but like Mordy he is also poorly equipped...
All in all I was extremely disappointed with the iconic Epic Level characters in that book, they were obviously never intended to see actual use. And the Greyhawk characters were incredibly simple, almost as if they were added as an afterthought. Paizo has first level characters that are better thought out...
Elmo the Sage is a Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Cleric 3/Wizard 24/Archmage 5, with a CR of 39, but is not very well thought out. His first six levels would have no impact what so ever on an epic level spellduel. His CR is terribly out of proportion, toss a CR 40 force dragon his way and watch the hurting commence... His intelligence is 27, but like Mordy he is also poorly equipped...
While I can't speak for the rest of his stat block, I believe Elminster was given those first six levels because in the first Elminster novel he dabbled in all those classes and hated wizardry before finally becoming a wizard himself.
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While I can't speak for the rest of his stat block, I believe Elminster was given those first six levels because in the first Elminster novel he dabbled in all those classes and hated wizardry before finally becoming a wizard himself.
I am aware of that, I read the novel. But the writers should really have largely disregarded those first six levels when it came to his challenge rating. There is no way in hell he is CR 39...
But the writers should really have largely disregarded those first six levels when it came to his challenge rating. There is no way in hell he is CR 39...
To my mind, they should be non-associated levels, for a final CR of 36.
Elminster in the FRCS and ELH and Mordenkainen from the ELH were created more or less "like PCs," not like powerful characters that have been around for a while. I think the thought process was to "justify" what they could do under the rules, instead of looking at what they could do logically from other sources and making them as tough as possible without getting TOO far out of whack.
Elminster helped lay the Mythal in Myth Drannor, and Khelben was trained by some of the most powerful wizards there, yet neither one of them have the Epic Spellcasting feat, but the Simbul, who has always been shown as having a lot of "raw" power, but not doing anything that you would classify as "epic level magic," does have the feat. And until the ultimate magus PrC in Complete Mage, her sorcerer levels were kind of pointless, even though it was her "main" class (and didn't make much sense, given that she was, no matter how wild, always presented as being a "study spellbooks from other wizards and writer her own new spells" kind of arcane caster).
While I like knowing what someone is capable of (i.e. there general level, classes, race, alignment, etc.) if I had to have one of these guy's stats for an adventure, I'd probably remake them from scratch.
Elminster in the FRCS and ELH and Mordenkainen from the ELH were created more or less "like PCs," not like powerful characters that have been around for a while. I think the thought process was to "justify" what they could do under the rules, instead of looking at what they could do logically from other sources and making them as tough as possible without getting TOO far out of whack.
Elminster helped lay the Mythal in Myth Drannor, and Khelben was trained by some of the most powerful wizards there, yet neither one of them have the Epic Spellcasting feat, but the Simbul, who has always been shown as having a lot of "raw" power, but not doing anything that you would classify as "epic level magic," does have the feat. And until the ultimate magus PrC in Complete Mage, her sorcerer levels were kind of pointless, even though it was her "main" class (and didn't make much sense, given that she was, no matter how wild, always presented as being a "study spellbooks from other wizards and writer her own new spells" kind of arcane caster).
While I like knowing what someone is capable of (i.e. there general level, classes, race, alignment, etc.) if I had to have one of these guy's stats for an adventure, I'd probably remake them from scratch.
Well put.
I'm pretty sure Iggwilv is actually Baba Yaga's daughter. In fact, I know she is.Wasn't this mentioned by Owen Stephens in the article on Iggwilv in Dragon #336?
Yup, I was right (the article was co-written by Gary Holian, btw).
"Some obscure nothern lore even hints that she is the issue of the witch Baba yaga herself" (pg 77).The article contains lots more info on Iggwilv, as well. For instance, she first appeared in Ket some 300 years ago, where she was known as "Hura." She was chased out of Lopolla after plundering the Vault of Daoud (a baklunish Greyhawk hero deity) & ended up in Greyhawk, where she studied under Zagig Yragere, helping him imprison Fraz-Urb'Luu. She then absconded with several of Zagig's possessions, including the Tome of Zyx, which she modified & renamed the Demonomicom, headed off to capture graz'zt, conceive Iuz, & take over Perrenland for a decade or so.