I have 12 issues of dragon remaining on my subscription.
I have 33 issues of dungeon remaining on my subscription.
My transition option of going with the new book states:
12 volumes with free shipping, a $287.88 retail value—plus you get a free PDF of each edition (a $167.88 value)! Subscribers would pay $215.88 to get this many volumes.
Yet when I multiply $19.99 x 12 issues I get $239.88. So there is a difference of $48.00 between the two. Also, I want to keep my dragon and dungeon until they stop running (September), so what is the dollar value for my remaining subscriptions at that point in time?
Last question, if I deplore the new adventure path books (which seem a bit expensive to me) can I cancel and refund back out after the first issue? If so, what would be the refund amount at that time?
I will miss reading Dungeon and Dragon magazines. I hope the new paths are successful for you folks, and thank you for all your work on these magazines. I will read my remaining issues with a little bit of sadness.
Chief Technical Officer
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Yet when I multiply $19.99 x 12 issues I get $239.88. So there is a difference of $48.00 between the two.
That's the free shipping—it would normally be 12 x $4/issue for US Parcel Post.
Also, I want to keep my dragon and dungeon until they stop running (September), so what is the dollar value for my remaining subscriptions at that point in time?
That number is provided as the refund option on the transition page.
Last question, if I deplore the new adventure path books (which seem a bit expensive to me) can I cancel and refund back out after the first issue? If so, what would be the refund amount at that time?
I'm sure we can find a way to make that happen. We don't have the tools in place for it at the moment, but it would take about $10 off your current potential refund, I think.
That's the free shipping—it would normally be 12 x $4/issue for US Parcel Post.
$19.99 cover price - 30% subscription discount = $13.99 + $4.00 shipping =$17.99 = $107.94 for a 6-part adventure path. Um, no thanks.
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Creative Director
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$19.99 cover price - 30% subscription discount = $13.99 + $4.00 shipping =$17.99 = $107.94 for a 6-part adventure path. Um, no thanks.
There's actually a lot more to Pathfinder than the Adventure Path. Each volume is also going to be detailing the new campaign we're setting our adventures in, and it'll be doing so by presenting extensive articles about cities, deities, villians, magic, ecologies of familiar monsters, and LOTS of new monsters. And while these articles will be themed to support that volume's adventure, they'll also work perfect as expansions to any d20 campaign. All I can really ask is that you at least check out the first few installments of Pathfinder. There's going to be a lot of neat stuff packed in there!
Kobold Press
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$19.99 cover price - 30% subscription discount = $13.99 + $4.00 shipping =$17.99 = $107.94 for a 6-part adventure path. Um, no thanks.
About 600 pages of adventure for $108. Sign me up! It's an excellent deal when you do the math.
For comparison, three of the "Return to..." books would cost you $105 for 600 pages. And for those, you'd have to pay extra shipping or go to the FLGS.
All I can really ask is that you at least check out the first few installments of Pathfinder.
Hmmm... take the blow of Dragon and Dungeon dying and never get another D&D-related subscription in the mail again. Or, roll over my credit and get some "free" (as in I've already paid for them months ago) issues of Pathfinder. That's really a no brainer! I can't wait to see them.
I am still trying to figure things out here.
I have 33 issues of Dungeon remaining, assuming that 5 more issues come that would leave me at 28 issues, times $8 each = $264.00. Add to that my 7 remaining Dragon (assuming 5 more come in the mail) for an additional $56.00. Totalled together is $320.00, less $112.00 for the 35% off cover price with the subscription leaves me with $218.00.
Yet when I look to get the refund for the remaining issues it's only $114.45.
Either I can't do math or there is some sort of problem with this calculation.
I have only had one cup of coffee today, perhaps that is it.
$19.99 cover price - 30% subscription discount = $13.99 + $4.00 shipping =$17.99 = $107.94 for a 6-part adventure path. Um, no thanks.About 600 pages of adventure for $108. Sign me up! It's an excellent deal when you do the math.
For comparison, three of the "Return to..." books would cost you $105 for 600 pages. And for those, you'd have to pay extra shipping or go to the FLGS.
... and don't forget the taxes at FLGS.
There's actually a lot more to Pathfinder than the Adventure Path. Each volume is also going to be detailing the new campaign we're setting our adventures in, and it'll be doing so by presenting extensive articles about cities, deities, villians, magic, ecologies of familiar monsters, and LOTS of new monsters. And while these articles will be themed to support that volume's adventure, they'll also work perfect as expansions to any d20 campaign. All I can really ask is that you at least check out the first few installments of Pathfinder. There's going to be a lot of neat stuff packed in there!
James:
While I appreciate what your saying, I *WAS* getting that and then some with Dragon & Dungeon for less money. I know that it wasn't Paizo's decision to discontinue the magazines and I'm sure your product will be top notch, but I can't afford it and I doubt I'm alone. :(
Thanks for what you folks did with Dragon & Dungeon and best of luck with your new endeavors.
For comparison, three of the "Return to..." books would cost you $105 for 600 pages. And for those, you'd have to pay extra shipping or go to the FLGS.
Sure, but your're not doing 100% like comparisons. None of the "Return to" series (from what I've seen, anyways) include stand alone adventures, which I personally get a lot of milage out of. Not to mention Critical Threats and the other columns. :\
Sure, but your're not doing 100% like comparisons. None of the "Return to" series (from what I've seen, anyways) include stand alone adventures, which I personally get a lot of milage out of. Not to mention Critical Threats and the other columns. :\
True, but we're also jumping quickly to judge a product we've never seen. There are times Dungeon has been only moderately good, but then there are issues that just blow me away. The same people are making Pathfinder; they won't hit the nail on the head for me every time, but I have no reason to think those staggering issues aren't going to be in there too. All we can do is wait and see.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Either I can't do math or there is some sort of problem with this calculation.
Because we do label runs for the magazines a couple of weeks in advance of the shipping date, we already count 355 and 148 as fulfilled. Right now, people have 4 issues of Dragon and 3 issues of Dungeon remaining (or less).
True, but we're also jumping quickly to judge a product we've never seen. There are times Dungeon has been only moderately good, but then there are issues that just blow me away. The same people are making Pathfinder; they won't hit the nail on the head for me every time, but I have no reason to think those staggering issues aren't going to be in there too. All we can do is wait and see.
If 1 issue of Dungeon or Dragon blows (and it has happened, at least IMO), I kind of just say "Meh. It'll be better next month." If I pay $20 for something and it blows I tend to get a little more upset.
I am still trying to figure things out here.
I have 33 issues of Dungeon remaining, assuming that 5 more issues come that would leave me at 28 issues, times $8 each = $264.00. Add to that my 7 remaining Dragon (assuming 5 more come in the mail) for an additional $56.00. Totalled together is $320.00, less $112.00 for the 35% off cover price with the subscription leaves me with $218.00.
Yet when I look to get the refund for the remaining issues it's only $114.45.
Either I can't do math or there is some sort of problem with this calculation.
I have only had one cup of coffee today, perhaps that is it.
The flaw in your math is that you're not applying the appropriate discout to your subscription. 28 issues + 7 issues = 35 issues * $3.28 each issue = $114.80 which is close.
--Jeff
Either I can't do math or there is some sort of problem with this calculation.Because we do label runs for the magazines a couple of weeks in advance of the shipping date, we already count 355 and 148 as fulfilled. Right now, people have 4 issues of Dragon and 3 issues of Dungeon remaining (or less).
Not meaning to nit pick here, but the difference is huge, and what you say, I was counting on 5 remaining issues which would make the difference even greater!
$218.00 (what I thought would be my refund amount given 5 remaining issues of each)
$114.45 (what you say my refund amount would be)
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$103.55 difference
If I rerun based on your assumptions of 3 issues of Dungeon remaining (meaning I have 30 issues on my subscription still) and 4 issues of Dragon remaining (meaning I have 7 issues of Dragon on my subscription still) that means that I have 37 issues of both magazines remaining on my subscription. 37 * $8.00 = $296.00.
$296.00 * 35% = $103.60 (the 35% subscription discount)
$296.00 - $103.60 =
$192.40 that should be my refund amount.... right?
Ahh, I did not know that I was getting a greater discount, that would account for the difference.
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Kobold Press
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Sure, but your're not doing 100% like comparisons. None of the "Return to" series (from what I've seen, anyways) include stand alone adventures, which I personally get a lot of milage out of. Not to mention Critical Threats and the other columns. :\
True, it's not a 100% like comparison, but ... I do expect to see ecologies, backgrounds, magic items, and other columns appear. The column names may change, and some will surely disappear entirely. But the Paizo gang has already said that there will be lots of background content beyond the core adventure every month.
Sure, but your're not doing 100% like comparisons. None of the "Return to" series (from what I've seen, anyways) include stand alone adventures, which I personally get a lot of milage out of. Not to mention Critical Threats and the other columns. :\True, it's not a 100% like comparison, but ... I do expect to see ecologies, backgrounds, magic items, and other columns appear. The column names may change, and some will surely disappear entirely. But the Paizo gang has already said that there will be lots of background content beyond the core adventure every month.
It's also worth mentioning that a lot of these gigantic adventures can be broken down into several quests, any of which could be easily yoinked for a quick self-contained session with little adjustment, if that's your flavor. Maybe this is mostly true of the installment I'm writing (but I don't think so), and looking at what I have so far, it could be 10 tightly designed adventures that are linked by a through-line.
The adventures in Rise of the Runelords are tremendous, and true-to-form in the brilliant Paizo-AP tradition, they cover such a wide purview of situations, plot arcs, baddies and adventure sites that they really offer a feast to the DM. I don't know if this was a design goal, or just part of James' natural cunning (he's like a minotaur!), but the outline for each adventure covered a wide range of wildly exciting stuff.
To tell the truth though you'll probably just want to run the whole thing...cause Erik and James created an AP that is so classic and yet so earth-shatteringly awesome all at the same time.
I wish I could say more and spoil-spoil away!!! Let me just say - I have never seen anything like Rise of the Runelords before. It is sheer gaming majesty.
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I'm sorry but there's one BIG problem with all this: it assumes everyone will like a whole Pathfinder campaign.
My friends and I liked SCAP a lot. AoW has some ok parts but mostly my group is only using bits from it (a vampire dragon is stupid no matter how you try to justify it). There will be campaigns some people just don't like. In these instances it equates to 6 issues of almost all useless material for $14 each. You guys are talking like this is a good thing for D&D.
Never thought I'd say this blasphemy: Sorry Mr. Baur but you're wrong! Sure, I'll pay for a "Return to..." campaign because I know what I'm getting. With Pathfinder we don't know what we're really getting till we have all 6.
I'll subscribe to Gamemastery because if I can't use one of the small adventures I can probably use another. For gaming groups that don't like, for example, robots and lasers in their D&D, a Pathfinder Expedition to te Barrier Peaks campaign would be nerly completely useless (a DM could still use the Froghemoth).
Mr. Logue, your argument is a little better but even still, we're talking about getting a very little mileage (in some cases)for $84! Fine, the one Pett writes I'll be able to use in my homebrew; fine, the one Logue writes will have a neet aspect I can use in my homebrew. What about the rest?!
-W. E. Ray
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Chief Technical Officer
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Keep in mind that while 50 pages (+/-) of any given volume are adventure, 40 pages (+/-) are supplemental material that's building the campaign world and informing campaign play.
Maybe it's still just not for you, but we hope you'll at least give it a look-though in the store before you make your mind up.