I'm curious about the experiences people had running the octopins in HoHR? I really liked them as monsters, and visually they are great. However, I found that their slowing gaze brought the game skidding to a near halt. Any battle with them dragged on forever; at the party's level, no one could consistently make a high DC Will save against them. They quickly went from something cool, fun and new to a chore to even have on the board. In fact, I cut the encounter with the advanced octopin out completely after watching the unexcited looks around the table as we plodded through the first octopin encounter. I did, however, keep the octopins who were guarding the mind flayer.
If I were to run HoHR over again, I would change the gaze attack to a single eye ray attack (ala Beholder). That would preserve one of their key elements but buy some time for the party to get their shots in before they are all moving slowly.
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If I were to run HoHR over again, I would change the gaze attack to a single eye ray attack (ala Beholder). That would preserve one of their key elements but buy some time for the party to get their shots in before they are all moving slowly.
Hmm, that's what I did but not because I thought I was altering the way the critter was designed. Apparently my mind melded their penetrating gaze and slow gaze into ray attack. In reflection I goofed with this encounter(s) but they were challenging enough as it was.
I had not thought of it until now, but the mind flayer had no immunities to the slowing gaze either. He should have been at risk from the gaze attacks the entire fight; however, I did not play it that way. Personally, I'm not a fan of the gaze rules. I prefer the effects be something activated by the monster for this very reason. Did anyone remember to make the illithid vulnerable to the gaze and play it out that way?
We just stopped at the beginning of the first Octopin battle. Both of the fighters have been slowed, but the wizard and cleric are still free to act. The cleric successfully blinded one Octopin which brought up a question for me. Does the slowing ability cease if the Octopin can't see? Since it is a passive and always there effect, I'm inclined to rule that you can still be slowed by a blind Octopin. Given your experiences with unexcited looks though, perhaps I ought to change that ruling. Any thoughts?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I had not thought of it until now, but the mind flayer had no immunities to the slowing gaze either. He should have been at risk from the gaze attacks the entire fight; however, I did not play it that way. Personally, I'm not a fan of the gaze rules. I prefer the effects be something activated by the monster for this very reason. Did anyone remember to make the illithid vulnerable to the gaze and play it out that way?
Remember, you can choose to "turn your back" on something with a gaze attack. If it's your ally, that isn't much risk. It would keep him from targeting things near the octopin, though - in that case, he could just avert (50% miss chance vs. the gaze attack, and the 20% miss chance when attacking the octopin wouldn't be relevant).
I gave out an advanced hint about the octopins via divination, and my party wizard came prepared with a couple of haste spells to counteract this effect, so it didn't affect my game much. I could see how it might be unexciting, but if the party has seen the things and fallen victim to them once, they ought to have some ideas how to deal with them the second time. Trying to deal with Zyrxog while turning your back to a couple of Octopins that are trying to julienne you might be a bit of a challenge, but it does make things interesting.
Didn't Zyrxog create the octopins? Though it doesn't say in the stat block, I can easily imagine that he probably 'installed' some sort of fail-safe when he made them. Something along the lines of "This won't affect mind flayers" or some such.
I had not thought of it until now, but the mind flayer had no immunities to the slowing gaze either. He should have been at risk from the gaze attacks the entire fight; however, I did not play it that way. Personally, I'm not a fan of the gaze rules. I prefer the effects be something activated by the monster for this very reason. Did anyone remember to make the illithid vulnerable to the gaze and play it out that way?
I've been thinking about this, and I finally had time to go back and check Zyrxog's stats. He has a +17 Will save, which nets him an 18 at worst. The DC for the save from the Octopin gaze attack is an 18, so Zyrxog is completely safe from them. However, I also believe that gaze attacks only have a 50% chance of even affecting allies (IIRC), so Zyrxog stands a good chance of not being slowed even with the advanced Octopin in the mix.
I resurrected the thread so that this info would be here for future researchers.
I've been thinking about this, and I finally had time to go back and check Zyrxog's stats. He has a +17 Will save, which nets him an 18 at worst. The DC for the save from the Octopin gaze attack is an 18, so Zyrxog is completely safe from them. However, I also believe that gaze attacks only have a 50% chance of even affecting allies (IIRC), so Zyrxog stands a good chance of not being slowed even with the advanced Octopin in the mix.
That's good, I didn't hose my party by forgetting it! Don't forget that he could always roll a 1 on a save (5% chance).
It's true that he could roll a one, but we don't play with critical successes or misses for saves or skills checks. YMMV.
Alright, Eltanin, better update us on what happened with Zyrxog last night. MJD's post in our game made it sound as though there were some casualties. :evil DM grin:
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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My party just defeated Zyrxog last night, and had a little trouble with the octopins. Thankfully, they were packing a few hastes, so the slow effect didn't really bother them too much. It also has a limited duration, so it didn't "slow" down the game much.
I know the adventure says Zyrxog doesn't use plane shift to flee his lair, but I had him do so anyway. After a two-hour fight in which most of the party was trapped in the scrying pool room and Zyrxog was throwing fireballs, lightning bolts, and mind blasts from the balcony window, the party managed to knock the mind flayer down to 0 hit points.
Playing on his supra-genius powers, I concluded that he needed to flee or he would certainly die, but plane shifting is strenuous enough to knock him into negatives immediately after the spell's completion.
So I made him plane shift himself to the Positive Energy Plane, where he promptly gained hit points immediately after arriving. He can't reach closer than 5 miles from the PCs' current location, so they are free from his influence for now (and free to destroy his good works), but it is a lock-solid certainty that the party has not heard the last from him.
--Erik
I wish my group hadn't killed him... I would have loved to bring him back later. However, in AGOW they didn't kill Moreto, but they left on bad terms. So I will have him reappear later, perhaps at the side of Dragotha.
I wish my group hadn't killed him... I would have loved to bring him back later. However, in AGOW they didn't kill Moreto, but they left on bad terms. So I will have him reappear later, perhaps at the side of Dragotha.
If I were you, I would use him as an agent of Lashonna.
As for Gaze attacks, I find them troublesome as well. More often than naught, I forget about them half-way through the fight.
As for Gaze attacks, I find them troublesome as well. More often than naught, I forget about them half-way through the fight.
I think the gaze attack rules are the cat's pajamas. Essentially they present the players with a number of options to deal with the gaze effects and have the mechanics for adjudicating those options be simple yet meaningful.
I totally ignored the slowing gaze ability - the encounter was plenty hard enough without it (for my players, anyway).
*** spoiler warning ***
As for zyrxog - here's an idea: have Bozal (evil cleric of kyuss that shows up during the champions games) - bring him back, as an undead! A vampire mind flayer would be pretty cool, no?