I'm researching 40K for an upcoming campaign, and one of the most interesting things to come of it is the existance of a race of near immortal, eternally patient, cold blooded reptillian creatures who were responsible for the creation of everything from Orks to Eldar. They shared both a great knowledge of science as well as tremendous mastery over the powers of the warp.
Does this sound like dragons to anyone else but me? I haven't been able to find out anything at all about Warhammer dragons, much less dragons (if any) in 40K. I'm very curious for more information about this from those in the know since I'm a relative newbie to this particular setting. Hey, thanks in advance!
I am relatively new to the 40k universe myself, bus as far as I know there are no Dragons per se in the game. In short stories and books there have been dragon-like Xenos, but they really had nothing to do with the primary races other than to be targets.
On the other hand one thing I have learned is that Orcs in 40k are very complex living fungi.
Stan
Yeah the orks are pretty messed up. They are a symbiotic cojoining of animal and fungal cells. They reproduce by spores, released in the catharsis of battle (the prime reason why war is an enjoyable urge for them, rather than fearful, is because of this tie it has to procreation). There are many ork subspecies that fill different niches in their society from food, to slaves, to repairing or building technology, to frontline warriors, all produced from the same spawning pit grown from the spores of an excited warrior. Orks are actually noticably bigger and more aggressive on planets with high ork populations or which are of more strategic value, whereas smaller ork populations holding backwater worlds tend to be smaller and more intelligent. Granted I think way too much comedy material has been dumped into the ork writeups, they started out as one of many kinds of dumb frat humor 40K started with--but they have a lot of cool potential.
WAAAAAAGH!
Are you refering to the Slann? (Not Slannesh. the chaos god) These guys are ancient frog men if i recall. They have alot of info about them in the original wh40k Rogue trader manual.
Well there's some dispute about that. Some people think the slann are themselves the Old Ones, presumably because the Old Ones of Warhammer Fantasy were originally called the Slann, but with the incorporation of the Old Ones, the name slann was changed to refer to the froglike priests of the lizardmen.
In 40K it's somewhat more ambiguous. The Slann are described as servants created to serve the Old Ones, along with the Eldar, the Orks, and a number of other races. The Old Ones were locked in a messy, millenia old war with a race of godlike beings called the C'tan and took their soldiers wherever they could. Beyond that, not much is known about the Old Ones.
So I'm looking at them thinking it would be really interesting if they were dragons. Dragons have barely been touched in 40K and the flavor text drops some pretty juicy hints that that might be what they are. If the Dragons are in fact the Old Ones, it would explain why very few of them are ever seen, and those that are seen are just the feral degenerate remainent of the destroyed race. Unfortunately it's nigh impossible to find any information on what dragons are like in Warhammer, much less 40K. I know there's subtypes by color and geography (Black Dragons, Forest Dragons, etc.) but that's all. I was hoping to find a Warhammer guru to teach me a bit more.
There's some further info about the 'fluff' as they call it here. Also found this:
Dragons In 40k - Page 2 - Librarium OnlineOk guys! Sorry i haven't posted here in a while! Well.... I've thought up some fluff (At the spur of the moment) and have decided to.
www.librarium-online.com/forums/rules-development/15547-dragons-40k-2.html
..but you have to register to see it.
Steve G.
Project Manager, AvatarArt
well, there are a lot of dragons in the wh40k game already; they are not dragon; they are the old ones; completely different; they made dragons also as a slave race as well as zoats which nobody has mentioned yet who are allies and as old as the slann. From what I have gathered it seems the old ones didnt have bodies or physical forms per se but tried out a bunch of those they created same way you try out new cloths. Kinda made a lot of races to have new experiences wearing their bodies; this is all a bit vague though, most of this old stuff in in Rouge Trader; I can look up the specifics if you need as I have all the stuff and a way back machine :)
Perhaps the old ones are the gods of law (Solkan etc) from WHFRP?
There are dragons in Warhammer fantasy (which is supposed to exist as 'just another planet' in the 40K universe) and they're just big nasty flying lizards not gods.
well, I have been thinking about this for a while, now; they changed everything in the new edition; well, new to me; it used to be that eldar and squats were just divergent races of humans mutated to live on high and low gravity world; who through a vast number of years on no contact; devolving into their own races. Their was a race that build the gates that allowed travel by warping from destination to destination more or less like stargate; the slann were the workforce for this unknown race and there was a race called the Jadekero or something like this who were hyper engineers that nobody understood but they could take a las cannon and rebuild it to fit on your finger like a ring and timble; anyway; the gates began to break down - nobody knows why - and this let the chaos warp seep into the universe as when traveling between gates you traveled through chaos. Finally the chaos gods themselves broke through and that is where you have that big bubble in the space map. Then along comes the next edition and they through a lot of this out; made the eldar their own race; added the Tau and we have no info on the Slann or Zoats or Jadekero or however it is spelled and fanstany sets set in as just another world in the 40k universe. There is no mention of dragons per se in any of the current fluff, but will recheck for you and bone up on the new fluff.
Theres quite a few dragons in warhammer fantasy lore: The Dragons of Ulthuan, the dragon that lends its name to the Blooddragon vampire counts family, the chaos dragons like that Tzeentch sorceror rides, the father of all dragons that one of the dwarf lords kills etc...
In 40k the eldar exodites ride dinosaurs and dragons on some worlds but again they seem to be little more than exotic beasts. :)
well, I have been thinking about this for a while, now; they changed everything in the new edition; well, new to me; it used to be that eldar and squats were just divergent races of humans mutated to live on high and low gravity world; who through a vast number of years on no contact; devolving into their own races.
That's true of the squats--whose actual racial name is the Demiurg, and other races like the Ogrun and Beastmen, but Eldar are their own thing, created along with other races like the Orks by the Old Ones as weapons in their war with the C'tan.
Their was a race that build the gates that allowed travel by warping from destination to destination more or less like stargate; the slann were the workforce for this unknown race.
I'm not sure who these guys would be. I know the Necrons, the servitors of the C'tan have a stargate style method of transport. I also know the Slann were servitors of the Old Ones.
...and there was a race called the Jadekero or something like this who were hyper engineers that nobody understood but they could take a las cannon and rebuild it to fit on your finger like a ring and timble; anyway;.
Yeah pseudo-intelligent orangutan folk (see Planet of the Apes) with the knack to create vastly technological items. They are now a protectorate race of the Imperium.
the gates began to break down - nobody knows why - and this let the chaos warp seep into the universe as when traveling between gates you traveled through chaos. Finally the chaos gods themselves broke through and that is where you have that big bubble in the space map. Then along comes the next edition and they through a lot of this out; made the eldar their own race; added the Tau and we have no info on the Slann or Zoats or Jadekero or however it is spelled and fanstany sets set in as just another world in the 40k universe. There is no mention of dragons per se in any of the current fluff, but will recheck for you and bone up on the new fluff.
Yeah. Most of the above are updates. I have no idea how it used to be. I would be really interested to see any examples of a 40K dragon. I really like the theory I've got going and would like to rescue it if I can. Unfortunately for that I need source material. I've got none. You say ancient reptillian godlike masters of the universe to me and part of me just really wants that to be a dragon. I think it's still a possibility, but if there's stuff out there that flat refutes it then I'll toss the idea. I just don't want to give up on it if there's some wiggle room cause I think it's just a really neat idea...
I sorta' like the idea that WF collapses into 40K. The settings always seemed to share too much in the way of races and gods to be unrelated.
well, just for kicks we played out a 1500 point battle last night running along the fluff of WK Fantasy being in the heart of the Eye of Terror so Chaos mortal undivided took on the Necrons and soundly wiped them from the field in a crushing victory. Not as all what we expected.
Asked around a bit and no one remembered any 40k dragons per se but most chimed in they all stay in the fanstasy realm inside the Eye of Terror; Ogryns were created genetically by the Empire same as squats in the old fluff in Rogue Trader; I can give you page number when I find my book.
I did a few web searches on it and read games workshop stuff on it, but they didnt have much; just buy buy buy and fight, paint, brag but that is not surprizing as I am probably the worlds worse web surfer.
What is intersting also is that their are like eight gods of chaos; we only deal with five in the game and have some fluff about the sixth.
The 'Old Ones' are the Slann (or are closely related to the Slann). Think Warhammer fantasy lizardmen.
That's pretty much exactly how I read it from the Necron Codex. Vast ancient lizards with advanced magic and psionics who create elves and lizardmen and orcs and other races, are neigh immortal and genius intelligent and can go toe to toe with gods and whole races in a war and do pretty good for themselves--that sounds like dragons to me. At least that's what I'm rooting for. It could be I'm entirely wrong, but there doesn't seem to be anything on dragons at all to affirm or deny my little theory (aside from some Eldar and Imperial units which are named for dragons.)
While it's never made clear that the Old Ones are not Draconic (which could be great fun, so feel free to set it up that way in your home game), it's generally assumed that the Old Ones were more man-sized than that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_humanoid
That kind of thing. :)
In warhammer fantasy, the Lizard man race have old ones, also called slann, they are the ones you are talking about.