Dragotha questions


Age of Worms Adventure Path


I'm running AoW and they are hitting the mid-teens now. Looking ahead I'm curious why so many people think Dragotha is easy. How are multiple people in the party hitting his AC?

lvl 20 warrior hit bonus
+20 from class
5 weapon
2 weapon bane (undead)
7 str (18 base +6 item)
1 weapon focus
---
35

I could see a +1 luck and maybe a +2 morale (bard) for 38. That's a natural 20 to hit him still. What else is there? I know there's the shard that one person could use but that kind of takes away the fun from the second melee.

And it seems Dragotha would almost kill a player a round in melee attacks. Stoneskin is only going to stop 10 per hit, it'll still be almost 200pts a round, the warrior might have 250 total (guessing). I'm figuring on about 40 AC for the player unless they fight defensively (which means even more trouble hitting him). Priest could heal him but if the priest is right there, I'd have Dragotha eat him next round.

Just want to make this a fun fight, and I want to be prepared if there's a ton of bonuses I haven't thought of and I need to change Dragotha.


Balakarde's Buffs.
One gives you a +20 insight bonus to hit Dragotha, and it can be switched to other PCS as an immediate action, letting them each use it on their own turn.
Besides this, Consider the power of 8th and 9th level spells.
Shapechange transforms a PC into a Titan or Wyrm Dragon of their favorite color and they start crunching bones
Mass Heal Simultaneously hurts Dragotha and heals everyone to near full.
Mordenkainens Dysjunction strips Dragotha of all magical defenses and renders his magic items possibly useless
Gate allows the control of creatures with higher CRs than Dragotha.. Solars with class levels, 36 HD elemetals, and worse (DO Not let them use the Epic Handbood for Gate if they aren't Epic)
Besides this a number of lower level spells, such as Freedom of Movement, Deathward, and even Blink stop a number of Dragotha's hostile effects, and again, the spirit fragments of Balakarde negate Dragotha's fiery berath and other debilitating effects.
It's best to carefully appraise your own groups to decide whether or not you'll have a climatic fight, a cakewalk, or a total party kill. Good luck!


Don't forget that the +20 Balakarde bonus to attacks can be swapped as an immediate action between melee types. Not only does it become likely the PC will hit, but gives them plenty of leeway to Power Attack the bajeesus out of Dragotha to boot.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Rakshaka wrote:
Gate allows the control of creatures with higher CRs than Dragotha.. Solars with class levels, 36 HD elemetals, and worse (DO Not let them use the Epic Handbood for Gate if they aren't Epic)

I'd extend that to solars. Letting someone gate in a solar with class levels is verging on nutty, I was very surprised to see that suggested in Dragon. Made me think the writing had never seen how effective a non-classed solar is, let alone a classed one.

For my purposes, I tend to look at solars as what they are: the right hands of greater gods. Said gods would probably rather you took a less irreplacable servant into harms way, and would likely hold a grudge regardless of cause.

Russ

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

office_ninja wrote:
Don't forget that the +20 Balakarde bonus to attacks can be swapped as an immediate action between melee types. Not only does it become likely the PC will hit, but gives them plenty of leeway to Power Attack the bajeesus out of Dragotha to boot.

Folks are remembering that's once per round, right? So you can't actually give it to every fighter-type in the same round.

A round in this case would expire just before the initiative count of the last person to swap it.

Russ


Rakshaka wrote:
Gate allows the control of creatures with higher CRs than Dragotha.. Solars with class levels, 36 HD elemetals, and worse (DO Not let them use the Epic Handbood for Gate if they aren't Epic)

Gate is the spell that always makes me nervous. (Double the HD of the caster's caster level?! What were they thinking?!)

I'm lucky that the only two members of our party who could cast gate...aren't interested in it. One is my own NPC, who "just doesn't feel comfortable casting it," and the other is the diviner, who will never sacrifice XP for anything. (Ironically, he just got overshot by the other PCs for being a level higher during a major encounter, and gaining less experience as a result).


Okay, not sure if this is in the right place but it is a question regarding Dragotha.

I am running the campaign and have read the magazine adventures, only just got onto the 3 faces of evil so still got a long way to go.

However I thought id try and work out how the stats are generated for Dragotha, as I can't wait to pit my players against this foe.

I don't see how his armour class is calculated at AC58, using the rules in the Players, Monster Manual page 75 Gargantuan Wyrm Red Dragon, Draconomicon Dracolich page 148 and Dragotha's item bonuses (dungeon page 83-84) I make it AC59, that's everything added up anybody else noticed this or have I missed something out?

AC=10 +
Size -4 +
Natural 38 (+2 onto the 36 Red Dragon armour for being Undead) +
Dexterity +2 (+5 inherent Str / Dex / Cha bonus) +
bracer's of Armour +8 +
shield of Faith +5 (Deflection modifier).
10 + -4 + 38 +2 +8 +5 = 59

Also the attack bonuses seems to be limited too.

Base attack = +37 grapple +68
Actual attack is listed at +48 as per the monster manual but with the +5 onto his STR 41 (46) this makes his Str bonus +19

Base attack 37 + 19 (Str modifier) = 56
even knocking off the 25 point power attack takes it to attack bonus +31.

+35 Attack bonus for Bite (Improved natural attack bite +4)

+33 Attack bonus for 2 claws, wings and Tail slap? Confusion has set in!
The Amulet of mighty fists +5 should ramp this up to +36 attack Bonus

I know this is a trivial bit of rule governing compared to the Skills, Feats and Spells discussions that have been posted previously but I find even one point of missed defensive / offensive capabilities the balance between a memorable encounter or a severely disappointing encounter!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dragotha's AC is correct; he's only a 17th level caster so his shield of faith actually gives a +4 deflection bonus, not +5.

As for his attack bonuses, it breaks down like this:
+37 base attack
–4 size
–25 Power Attack
+19 from Strenth
+5 enhancement (from amulet of mighty fists +5)
+3 luck (from divine favor, which has been erattaed so that its max bonus is +3)

Which gives him a +35 for his primary attack (his bite).

His Multiattack feat means that all his secondary attacks (claws, wings, and tail slap) are made a –2 penalty (rather than the standard –5 penalty).


James Jacobs wrote:

Dragotha's AC is correct; he's only a 17th level caster so his shield of faith actually gives a +4 deflection bonus, not +5.

As for his attack bonuses, it breaks down like this:
+37 base attack
–4 size
–25 Power Attack
+19 from Strenth
+5 enhancement (from amulet of mighty fists +5)
+3 luck (from divine favor, which has been erattaed so that its max bonus is +3)

Which gives him a +35 for his primary attack (his bite).

His Multiattack feat means that all his secondary attacks (claws, wings, and tail slap) are made a –2 penalty (rather than the standard –5 penalty).

Thank you for the prompt response, I have just poured over the books again and can with utmost certainty see the CL17th, completely missed the Multiattack feat penalty and never spotted the divine favour. Sorry

However where is the Unholy Toughness quality from or is it a unique ability to Dragotha?

Okay I've got my fools cap on now, trawled the forums, spotted Unholy toughness referenced to Monster Manual III, grabbed my book and looked at the first undead (Boneclaw page 17, Bonedrinker page 19)I came too. Unholy toughness (Ex) in all it's glory but not referenced in the Glossary starting on page 208! Nor on the Wizards website.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

bodrin wrote:
However where is the Unholy Toughness quality from or is it a unique ability to Dragotha?

Unholy toughness is a special ability that many of the more-recently created undead in D&D books have. The lack of Constitution really causes problems for a lot of high-level undead. One way to fix it is to just give them a lot of hit dice, but that causes other problems to pop up.

Anywya, I gave it to Dragotha because he needed the hit points; most dracoliches don't have this ability. But then, Dragotha's certainly not most dracoliches. It's described in the issue on page 84 (the last entry of Dragotha's stat block, up on top of the third collumn on the page).


James Jacobs wrote:


Unholy toughness is a special ability that many of the more-recently created undead in D&D books have. The lack of Constitution really causes problems for a lot of high-level undead. One way to fix it is to just give them a lot of hit dice, but that causes other problems to pop up.

Anywya, I gave it to Dragotha because he needed the hit points; most dracoliches don't have this ability. But then, Dragotha's certainly not most dracoliches. It's described in the issue on page 84 (the last entry of Dragotha's stat block, up on top of the third collumn on the page).

I was wondering, and couldn't find information relating specifically to it, but what kind of increase to a creatures Challenge Rating does Unholy Toughness create, if at all? Is this factored into Dragotha's CR?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Hierophantasm wrote:
I was wondering, and couldn't find information relating specifically to it, but what kind of increase to a creatures Challenge Rating does Unholy Toughness create, if at all? Is this factored into Dragotha's CR?

It is indeed factored into his CR. Without Unholy Toughness, Dragotha has a glass jaw.

The best way to assign CR is to look at a monster as a whole and compare him to monsters of similar power levels, then assign him a CR based on that comparasion. There is no handy formula to calculate a creature's CR, really.


James Jacobs wrote:
It is indeed factored into his CR. Without Unholy Toughness, Dragotha has a glass jaw.

Which book is Unholy Toughness detailed in?

thanks, -- david


Papa-DRB wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
It is indeed factored into his CR. Without Unholy Toughness, Dragotha has a glass jaw.

Which book is Unholy Toughness detailed in?

thanks, -- david

I *think* it first appeared in Monster Manual III. It's not a feat, but a "special quality". For an example, look at the Boneclaw description in MMIII. It basically gives a hit point bonus equal to "charisma bonus times hit dice". So, for the Boneclaw, HD=10 and CHA=19 (+4 bonus) => +40 hit points.

It helps augment the hitpoint penalty high level undead see due to having (by definition) zero constitution.

Oddly enough, I can't find any reference to it in Libris Mortis...

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