I have a bit of a delima. The 1/2 Orc Druid in my party used the character option of taking a small earth elemental instead of an animal companion (I forget which book that option is in).
Anyway, when vanthus springs his trap on parrot Isle, the elemental can use earth glide to move up through the trap door and open it...thus freeing the "trapped" PC's, and allowing them to, quite possibly, catch up with vanthus and engauge him...
I have changed the trapdoor from stone to metal, and also made the shaft lined with metal, but this will not stop him from just using earth glide to move up through tne non-metal area, move the boulders off the door and allow the PC's to get out.
This is such an awesome cenematic encounter, I want it to run as written...Any ideas?
You could say that the living matter above ground does not constitute earth and stop the elementals movement there. Or at least, the elemental could be quite unwilling to pass so close to trees that it takes a long time to accomplish the task of removing the boulders. Wood should work as well as metal in this regard, Earth Glide works only on earth or stone. So, if the island is overgrown, this will hinder the elemental.
If you are feeling really mean, Vanthus could just kill the elemental as soon as it crawls out of the ground - he is probably still around for a while, and a small elemental should be not problem for him. But this tastes of railroading, of course.
Stefan
I wouldn't push too hard to make this encounter succeed if your players have the options and intelligence to get around it. The adventure itself recommends against it. I'm stretching to Vanthus using a potion of invisibility, because I think he'd be foolish not to in the circumstances, but that's it - if the party leave someone on watch, or otherwise foil the attempt, Vanthus is out of luck.
Basically, consider that Vanthus is able to modify his plans based upon his knowledge of the PCs, to the limits of the resources he's prepared to expend. So he won't be able to make the shaft suddenly metal-lined - but he can account for the elemental in other ways, if he knows its abilities. For instance, instead of piling boulders upon the trapdoor, he uses a set of chains and a good lock to bind it shut - a barrier that will withstand a small elemental's best attempts to breach it.
nice... some chains and a superior lock... the elemental might eventually bash through it, but it'll take him a while. As for having him kill it...that might not be too bad of an idea..it sure would make the Druid hate vanthus even MORE...perhaps he has a whole gang of Lotus Dragon thugs with him when he emerges from the undergrowth. He locks them in then tells the thugs "wait here for two hours...if anyone comes up through that trapdoor...Kill them!"
...poor lil elemental emerges and gets gang-banged... That might be to evil though...
Anyone else have any ideas?
Vanthus has already left when, and if, the PC's make it back to the surface. End of it.
The PCs will have to wait for the earth elemental to make it up there (it can only move 20 feet per round), so I why don't you have the undead attack as they wait, perhaps driving them deeper into the tunnels. You can ratchet up the tension by adding some strange shrieking or moaning sounds a round before they attack; it may even provoke the druid into recalling his companion if that companion is part of the his melee repetoire.
The PCs will have to wait for the earth elemental to make it up there (it can only move 20 feet per round), so I why don't you have the undead attack as they wait, perhaps driving them deeper into the tunnels. You can ratchet up the tension by adding some strange shrieking or moaning sounds a round before they attack; it may even provoke the druid into recalling his companion if that companion is part of the his melee repetoire.
Excellent suggestion Shroomy, that will definatly add tension to this beautifly written encounter... The druid has in fact been using the elemental as a melee combatant. Hmmmmm... I like it! I think I will combine all of the suggestions. Vanthus uses chains and locks... puts thugs on guard, and the zombies attack as soon as the PC's are dropped into the hole. That should keep them immersed and sufficiently off-balance.
The PCs will have to wait for the earth elemental to make it up there (it can only move 20 feet per round), so I why don't you have the undead attack as they wait, perhaps driving them deeper into the tunnels. You can ratchet up the tension by adding some strange shrieking or moaning sounds a round before they attack; it may even provoke the druid into recalling his companion if that companion is part of the his melee repetoire.Excellent suggestion Shroomy, that will definatly add tension to this beautifly written encounter... The druid has in fact been using the elemental as a melee combatant. Hmmmmm... I like it! I think I will combine all of the suggestions. Vanthus uses chains and locks... puts thugs on guard, and the zombies attack as soon as the PC's are dropped into the hole. That should keep them immersed and sufficiently off-balance.
And possibly a TPK if you are lucky! Hehe!
oh no, Im never ever happy when a PC dies... It just makes extra work for me as DM. If it happens, then it happens, but its never my "goal".
Excellent suggestion Shroomy, that will definatly add tension to this beautifly written encounter... The druid has in fact been using the elemental as a melee combatant. Hmmmmm... I like it! I think I will combine all of the suggestions. Vanthus uses chains and locks... puts thugs on guard, and the zombies attack as soon as the PC's are dropped into the hole. That should keep them immersed and sufficiently off-balance.
This may be overkill. The undead in the smuggling caves could be quite tough, especially the huecuva. I would actually drop the metal shaft, thugs, and chains/locks unless your PCs are tougher than normal (the metal shaft, chains, and locks could appear to be a nerfing of the half-orcs companion, which won't serve him that well in the 3rd adventure, for example, and railroading). If you use the undead attack, the PCs are making a reasonable trade off between an additional melee attacker and their best chance of escape.
This may be overkill. The undead in the smuggling caves could be quite tough, especially the huecuva. I would actually drop the metal shaft, thugs, and chains/locks unless your PCs are tougher than normal.
Excellent suggestion Shroomy, that will definatly add tension to this beautifly written encounter... The druid has in fact been using the elemental as a melee combatant. Hmmmmm... I like it! I think I will combine all of the suggestions. Vanthus uses chains and locks... puts thugs on guard, and the zombies attack as soon as the PC's are dropped into the hole. That should keep them immersed and sufficiently off-balance.
Well I have 5 PC'sin the group...not the usual 4 and they are rather good at team work and such. Also they have a fairly competent cleric with them that can turn undead. The only problem I see is if they aren't somehow trapped in the caves...they wont find Penkus' letter leading them to the taxidemist. They will just fight the wave of undead...then have the elemental burrow out and free them... I don't think they'll bother to explore the cave...
Creative Director
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If you let the druid take an earth elemental as a minion, you should let him use the elemental as it's meant to be used. Indeed, one of the ways the adventure assumes the PCs escape is by using an earth elemental to slither up through the stone to open the trap door from above. I'd let the druid's elemental do this trick, and when it pops up the top either Vanthus attacks it and probably kills it (I wouldn't do this since it means there's a chance Vanthus might end up getting killed), or Vanthus has already fled the scene so that by the time the lid's open and the PCs manage to climb back out (remember, the rope ladder's not there any more), he's already gone. It removes some of the sense of urgency of being tapped with the smuggler's tunnels, but doesn't remove the need to explore them, since the major clue is still on Penkus's body. If the PCs dont' go in there and find his body, well... at that point you might have to resort to some other clue to get them to look into Dead Dog Alley. If they keep asking around about the Lotus Dragons, they'll eventaully get ambushed and then led into the Crucible through the well, perhaps?
That earth elemental sounds like it will be a huge headache during the course of the campaign. Is there anything stopping the players from using it to scout in dungeon environments?
Odd thing about earth elementals - they don't actually have any means of navigating whilst using Earth Glide. No tremorsense, so special senses at all. So although an earth elemental could glide through the walls of a stone dungeon, it would be blind whilst doing so, and might come out in plain view of enemies, or glide right into an underground waterway without realising it. Generally not very healthy for a small elemental.
That earth elemental sounds like it will be a huge headache during the course of the campaign. Is there anything stopping the players from using it to scout in dungeon environments?
Nope, but thats what druids, sorcerers and wizards usually use their animal companions for...Its just that this one can swim through earth...his Intelligence is only 4, but I think thats good enough to understand the terran language, and follow simple commands. It will probably become the standard operating procedure for the rogue to check for traps, then send the elemental underground and into the "new room" to scout. So your right... probably a headache for me... but fun for the player LOL
It removes some of the sense of urgency of being tapped with the smuggler's tunnels, but doesn't remove the need to explore them, since the major clue is still on Penkus's body. If the PCs dont' go in there and find his body, well... at that point you might have to resort to some other clue to get them to look into Dead Dog Alley. If they keep asking around about the Lotus Dragons, they'll eventaully get ambushed and then led into the Crucible through the well, perhaps?
It also removes all the zombies and the hucuva which equates to lost exp and the characters then will not level according to the STAP progression. I think I will have Vanthus banter with them before he "locks" them in; saying things suggested in the module like "say hello to Penkus for me while yer running for you lives down there... And let this be a lesson to you not to meddle in the affairs of powerfull people!"
Since they will definatly hear about penkus during their investigation for Vanthus...maybe this will motivate them to explore the tunnels for clues. not sure...
Thanks for all the advice though guys... keep it coming.
It also removes all the zombies and the hucuva which equates to lost exp and the characters then will not level according to the STAP progression. I think I will have Vanthus banter with them before he "locks" them in; saying things suggested in the module like "say hello to Penkus for me while yer running for you lives down there... And let this be a lesson to you not to meddle in the affairs of powerfull people!"Since they will definatly hear about penkus during their investigation for Vanthus...maybe this will motivate them to explore the tunnels for clues. not sure...
Having Vanthus say his piece just as he slams the trapdoor shut would be a classic move, but it will make the PCs wanting open the trapdoor all the more to get him. And be careful that the PCs just don´t fry him at that moment with some magic or something - it would just ruin his value somewhat. OTOH, if they manage to injure him, he will hate them all the more if they face him later again.
Stefan
basically he will ready an action to slam the door if the PC's do anything threatening.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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basically he will ready an action to slam the door if the PC's do anything threatening.
I'd recommend avoiding this. Readying out of combat is explicitly against the rules, and it tends to make players feel railroaded. They could fairly bring up the point that if your NPCs can ready out of combat, so can they - why can't they ready to shoot him as he tries to shut the door, or perhaps hit him with baleful transposition? At that point, you're down to initiative to decide who goes first, and getting into the reasons why he slams the door without a speech in the first place.
Russ
okay...hmmmm... guess he can immediatly slam the trap door shut, then banter with them through it. I guess they wouold still be able to hear him. He needs to "bait" them into exploring the caverns... Instead of just immediatly leacing the area.
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There's nothing wrong with "having a GM's moment" and doing something cinematic, like having the guy say a few words before the PCs can do something. Over all, it's certainly feasible that he yells out, "Say hello to Penkus for me." as he pushes the last guy in the shaft. It's no more difficult then that.
Even if the PCs start to try and do something, all Vanthus has to do is open his hand, letting the door close. It's a free action. None of the PCs are going to be able to do "Free Action Attacks", so if anything they can start to attack, and as they do so the door closes and the spells and weapons used are used up against the bottom of the door--and hopefully they can get out of the way as the weapon returns back down at them.
As for the Earth Elemental. As GM decide that Vanthus hurts it, taking it to 25% HP and that it won't go back up there, afraid for it's life. (I don't know why people make Familiars and Companions the mindless do-anything retards that they do. These things can have personality, and can actually NOT do what the PC says for them to do in the name of self preservation.)
James is not wrong in saying that the encounter should not necissarily be altered just because the PCs have the way out before they even go into the trap. On the other hand, perhaps Vanthus has something specifically set to deal with a small Earth Elemental, after all, he knows who the PCs are and what they are likely capable of since he's specifically setting the trap for them.
One thing you might do is allow them to send up the Elemental, but have Vanthus waiting and he traps it in a cage that can hold a small earth elemental and he takes it with him. Then later on, let the PCs get it back in the Dragon's Den under the taxidermist's office.
After all, the Guild HAS BEEN dealing with magical beasts and other creatures for Black Market Trade. Vanthus could trap it not only to stop the PCs but also to make some money by selling the Elemental to some wizard or noble.
If you use this idea, DON'T tell the group what happens to the Elemental only that it goes up and doesn't do what they ask. That way they can all worry. Then when they get out and make their way through the Dragon's Guild they can find it in the cage and can let it go. (I suggest having it in the room near the end, where the woman/lizard combo is waiting.)
There's nothing wrong with "having a GM's moment" and doing something cinematic, like having the guy say a few words before the PCs can do something. Over all, it's certainly feasible that he yells out, "Say hello to Penkus for me." as he pushes the last guy in the shaft. It's no more difficult then that.
Even if the PCs start to try and do something, all Vanthus has to do is open his hand, letting the door close. It's a free action. None of the PCs are going to be able to do "Free Action Attacks", so if anything they can start to attack, and as they do so the door closes and the spells and weapons used are used up against the bottom of the door--and hopefully they can get out of the way as the weapon returns back down at them.
As for the Earth Elemental. As GM decide that Vanthus hurts it, taking it to 25% HP and that it won't go back up there, afraid for it's life. (I don't know why people make Familiars and Companions the mindless do-anything retards that they do. These things can have personality, and can actually NOT do what the PC says for them to do in the name of self preservation.)
James is not wrong in saying that the encounter should not necissarily be altered just because the PCs have the way out before they even go into the trap. On the other hand, perhaps Vanthus has something specifically set to deal with a small Earth Elemental, after all, he knows who the PCs are and what they are likely capable of since he's specifically setting the trap for them.
One thing you might do is allow them to send up the Elemental, but have Vanthus waiting and he traps it in a cage that can hold a small earth elemental and he takes it with him. Then later on, let the PCs get it back in the Dragon's Den under the taxidermist's office.
After all, the Guild HAS BEEN dealing with magical beasts and other creatures for Black Market Trade. Vanthus could trap it not only to stop the PCs but also to make some money by selling the Elemental to some wizard or noble.
If you use this idea, DON'T tell the...
I like your ideas mr. Wesel. Good stuff. And I agree, for the sake of cenematic flair, that droping the trapdoor should be quick. Instead of making it a free action, it should be an Immediate action. That way even if we were in initiative, he could do it outside of his turn. If it's played right my players wont be rules lawyers about it...they'll be having too much fun!
As for trapping the elemental...that is a good idea... but it would be extremly hard to do. He can virtually "swim" through the ground; he pops up, sees vanthus /thugs, and immediatly pops back down into the ground. Also they are immune to sleep paralysis, and stunning. How could he trap the elemental?
Maybe... Vanthus has agreed to give the elemental to Nemien Roblach (Lotus Dragon taxidermist) as a reward for helping to capture it. Nemien is totally intrigued by the elemental and wants to try to stuff it and put it on his showroom floor next to his black dragon LOLLOL. Nemien goes to parrot Isle with vanthus to stage the attack...and when the lil guy pops up to begin freeing the PC's an invisible nemien hits him w/ a color spray knocking him unconscious (I know elementals dont sleep, but it doesnt say they are immune to being knocked unconscious), putting him in a bamboo cage, and taking him back to his shop to "study". The the PC's can find him when they go to the shop. Hmmmmm.... interesting...
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Paradox,
Keep in mind that you don't have to tell them how the Elemental was taken prisoner, their characters won't be there to see it, they'll be down below the action.
If anything, just give them a descritption of something like this:
"Okay, your elemental melds into the wall at your request for him to go up and unblock the entrance, several tense moments go by in the gloomy darkness of the old dungeon as your nerves play tricks on you and little odd noises echo about now and again...or at least you hope that it is your nerves...and then you hear a slight shifting of rock above you. Suddenly there's a strange noise, almost a wooshing sound, followed by a loud thump. Then you hear a voice yelling down through the door, barely audible you have to strain to hear it, "As I said, give Penkus my regards; and thanks for the pet, I'll make me a goodly some of platinum off this thing. Enjoy your deaths, I know I will."
Something like that does what you need it do, and more, really starts to make it personal for the PCs to want to go after Vanthus, something I think the Adventure kinda lacks in general, as written.
Excellent! Nicely written sir. I think I shall impliment this for tonight session on parrot Isle!
Thank you!
Excellent! Nicely written sir. I think I shall impliment this for tonight session on parrot Isle!
Thank you!
LoL after all that planning...they decided to explore the caverns, and have the Elemental moved the boulders when they were ready to leave... LOL The pc's always do the exact opposite of what you have planned.