A question for y'all....
I'm running the STAP in Eberron with a "good" party that stormed the "Blue Nixie" and recovered the 100 pp bag from Soller Vark's cabin; however, upon returning to Lavinia they gave her back only 50 pp saying that was all they found. Not the most honorable of things to do, but I'd like to have it come back and haunt them.
I've been role-playing Lavinia as a scared, somewhat clueless NPC but after their actions I might switch her to seeing through the PCs but I'm not sure.
Any suggestions? An interesting coincidence is that the background for one of the PCs is that he's an estranged, "bastard" cousin of Lavinia and Vanthus who wasn't recognized by Lavinia until they entered the family vault. I've hinted that an inquisitor was hired to look into the murders of Lavinia's parents, so maybe I can build on that.
Thanks.
Big D!
Have you seen this thread ? It deals with exactly that question. One poster suggests having the PCs make a bluff check on this while lying to her - perhaps a good idea for that situation.
STefan
Another thing you can do is start a gradual alignment shift - or a radical one if any PCs are Lawful Good - and, if they keep acting in ways you find to be non good, over time, they might find themselves N or worse.
Creative Director
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You should certainly play Lavinia as less of a victim and more of a strong-willed character. She shouldn't be a pushover, and if she starts to suspect that the PCs are robbing her, she'll confront them. Using diplomacy at first, but after that she'll probably cut them loose.
If you're still interested in running Savage Tide, things aren't lost. You should have Rowyn Kellani approach the PCs with a reverse job offer; work for the Lotus Dragons and help her gain control of Sasserine (and eventually, control of Farshore).
And yes... PCs who rob from their employers should definately drift toward Chaotic in alignment, and if they get worse, they might even start drifting toward evil. If there are lawful or good clerics or if there's paladins in the party... this might be enough in and of itself to get your PCs back on the path.
In closing, though, don't worry TOO much. The title of the adventure can just as easilly apply to the PCs. "There Is No Honor" is actually intended to put the PCs in situations where they'll have the chance to make moral decisions on what to do when they recover someone else's stolen treasure, and while Savage Tide assumes they take on the role of the good guys, each adventure will have a short "Switching Sides" sidebar that details how you should adjust the adventure if the PCs decide they'd rather be bandits and pirates themselves.
IMC the players kept the 100 pp. Unfortunately they all decided to stay on the boat for a week before helping Lavinia into the Vault. Since she didn't have the money to pay off the Harbormaster they were attacked by more of his men.
The best way to stick it to them, of course, is to do what I did next: lower the reward for helping her with the Vault. Instead of paying them 200 gp each or whatever the suggestion was, offer them 5% of her family fortune they find (and maybe even up to 10%). The total will be only 145 gp, and since Lavinia still has to spend 1000 gp for her boat she won't be as willing to give them a 'bonus'.
Of course, the players can always kill Lavinia in the Vault and take all of her family fortune. It's always good to have a changeling in the party. :oD The campaign can still continue without her.
You should certainly play Lavinia as less of a victim and more of a strong-willed character. She shouldn't be a pushover....
In my campaign, a kind of "signature line" for Lavinia will be "I don't make the same mistake twice", said with a fierce flash in her eyes. She's still learning, but she has a strong core; if her opponents think otherwise, she'll use that to her advantage.
Have you seen this thread ? It deals with exactly that question. One poster suggests having the PCs make a bluff check on this while lying to her - perhaps a good idea for that situation.
STefan
Thanks STefan! I had not seen this thread. I appreciate it.
Big D!
Of course, the players can always kill Lavinia in the Vault and take all of her family fortune. It's always good to have a changeling in the party. :oD The campaign can still continue without her.
I'm not expecting my PCs to turn brigand, but still I appreciated the idea of much of the remaining family 'fortune' consisting of IOUs and favours owed. It does give the PCs an incentive to keep Lavinia alive.
You should certainly play Lavinia as less of a victim and more of a strong-willed character. She shouldn't be a pushover, and if she starts to suspect that the PCs are robbing her, she'll confront them. Using diplomacy at first, but after that she'll probably cut them loose.
If you're still interested in running Savage Tide, things aren't lost. You should have Rowyn Kellani approach the PCs with a reverse job offer; work for the Lotus Dragons and help her gain control of Sasserine (and eventually, control of Farshore).
And yes... PCs who rob from their employers should definately drift toward Chaotic in alignment, and if they get worse, they might even start drifting toward evil. If there are lawful or good clerics or if there's paladins in the party... this might be enough in and of itself to get your PCs back on the path.
In closing, though, don't worry TOO much. The title of the adventure can just as easilly apply to the PCs. "There Is No Honor" is actually intended to put the PCs in situations where they'll have the chance to make moral decisions on what to do when they recover someone else's stolen treasure, and while Savage Tide assumes they take on the role of the good guys, each adventure will have a short "Switching Sides" sidebar that details how you should adjust the adventure if the PCs decide they'd rather be bandits and pirates themselves.
Hi James,
Thanks for the suggestions. Great ideas all around. The group is "good" aligned but a counter-offer by the Lotus Dragons (after learning of their behavior) would maybe show them that they aren't on the "straight and narrow". I need to stress alignments in Eberron by having them move to Chaotic alignments. The good aligned cleric could have a crisis when a spell is needed but the Sovereign Host isn't answering.
After running two sessions on There Is No Honor, I didn't realize that it is "actually intended to put the PCs in situations where they'll have the chance to make moral sions on what to do".
The party is all good-aligned but I must say that I was stunned when they decided not to give all the pp's back to Lavinia. Thanks again.
Big D!
I think the bastard brother should be uncovered publicy and then the party suffers in diplomacy checks and gather info checks period...and let ech pc during the adventure a taste of what they are doing..if u steal be stolen from..lie and get lied to bad. Then do real alignment checks on everybody by announcing any character who dies has to have a relative or friend come to find out what happened to them. Lavinia will take care of herself..maybe weak now..but with her connections through the seekers she could become a powerful enemy in her own right.
Good suggestions! Boy, the wheels are turning now. Lavinia has turned to her "long lost cousin" as a source of support, but I could have the inquisitive (or the Lotus Dragons for that matter), publicly decry his guilt with the murders of Lavinia's parents. A public outcry would result and they wouldn't be as comfortable around town.
I guess that's the key thing right now that I'm trying to fix. The PCs are too comfortable. They have a Seeker-associated matron (Lavinia), cash, and a bit too much bravado.
I need to stress alignments in Eberron by having them move to Chaotic alignments. The good aligned cleric could have a crisis when a spell is needed but the Sovereign Host isn't answering.
(slightly offtopic) I don't know if you're running Eberron "by the book" or not, but The Sovereign Host as written wouldn't necessarily withhold spells from their clerics for an alignment shift. Flip to the section on the deities, i think it's in there, or maybe on clerics in Eberron. Alignment is a bit more... messy in Eberron. Doesn't mean you can't run it with a more standard method of alignment...(/slightly offtopic)
But you are right, there should be something tangible that he PC's feel for their actions. Cause and effect, Just Desserts, Reaping what you Sow, etc. etc...
I would definitely give less of a bonus out, as Lavinia's working with less money on hand now. And yeah, if she suspects them of screwing her over... cut them loose as James said, why would she hire them on for anything else? If she has concrete proof, call in the authorities.
If the party wants to play brigands and thieves, then they should really get to. They will start finding themselves out of work for the more upstanding citizens, and Rowyn's offer may be the only one they get.