Okay, so my PCs just blew through Krathanos the Titan, completing the first challenge in LoLR. Darl of course had the area being watched and now knows that the PCs have the belt he needs. I have already ascertained that 25-50% of his commune questions will be about the PCs, so he already knows all about them and what they are capable of. Since he can cast Gate and Greater Planar Ally as an 18th level cleric, I'm wondering if I should spring some powerful outsider on them. Tilagos is deadly enough, but with them Windwalking past all the random encounters and blowing through a Titan, I'm worried they're not going to be getting enough XP to keep up with the adventure's pacing. What have other DMs done about this? Also, is Darl powerful enough to know what type of opponent would best destroy the party (no arcane), and is this too mean spirited?Am I within my rights to send a Pit Fiend or worse (a monster tailored to their weaknesses)at them while they camp? Maybe something less or anything at all? I considered using Krekie, but in my experience, singular threats (especially rogues or wizards) get whacked pretty quick. I am running it on Sunday, and an encounter with the Lich Lord's high priest will happen, one way or the other...
Okay, so my PCs just blew through Krathanos the Titan, completing the first challenge in LoLR. Darl of course had the area being watched and now knows that the PCs have the belt he needs. I have already ascertained that 25-50% of his commune questions will be about the PCs, so he already knows all about them and what they are capable of. Since he can cast Gate and Greater Planar Ally as an 18th level cleric, I'm wondering if I should spring some powerful outsider on them. Tilagos is deadly enough, but with them Windwalking past all the random encounters and blowing through a Titan, I'm worried they're not going to be getting enough XP to keep up with the adventure's pacing. What have other DMs done about this? Also, is Darl powerful enough to know what type of opponent would best destroy the party (no arcane), and is this too mean spirited?Am I within my rights to send a Pit Fiend or worse (a monster tailored to their weaknesses)at them while they camp? Maybe something less or anything at all? I considered using Krekie, but in my experience, singular threats (especially rogues or wizards) get whacked pretty quick. I am running it on Sunday, and an encounter with the Lich Lord's high priest will happen, one way or the other...
I envisioned that Darl has been keeping tabs on the PCs for awhile (maybe he was keeping an eye on that pretender the Faceless One, and witnessed the PCs end him) and when they try to intervene directly in his plans for the Library, he is already equipped with all sorts of knowledge concerning their strengths, weaknesses and dark secrets. I say you are in the clear to throw a really challenging outsider (catered to their weaknesses) at them. Good luck! Hope it turns out fun!
Thanks for the insight, Nicolus.
In my game, Darl knew many dark secrets about the characters...he knew things that their counterparts never knew (skeletons in the closet type stuff). After all, thats his divine ability/skill.
The evening we played, we were thin on players. I was concerned that a well armed Darl would wipe out the party, so I fell back on BBEG weakness #1: overconfidence. I had Darl's posse jump in on the PCs virtually one at a time to be defeated Bruce Lee style. It seemed to work out ok.
Regarding Krathanos, I played this guy up big time: the party was still thin this evening, so they negotiated with Krathanos. Good thing too, because I was going to advance him and kill party members. I give mad respect to anyone who gets imprisoned directly by a god.
Thanks for the insight, Nicolus.
In my game, Darl knew many dark secrets about the characters...he knew things that their counterparts never knew (skeletons in the closet type stuff). After all, thats his divine ability/skill.
The evening we played, we were thin on players. I was concerned that a well armed Darl would wipe out the party, so I fell back on BBEG weakness #1: overconfidence. I had Darl's posse jump in on the PCs virtually one at a time to be defeated Bruce Lee style. It seemed to work out ok.
Regarding Krathanos, I played this guy up big time: the party was still thin this evening, so they negotiated with Krathanos. Good thing too, because I was going to advance him and kill party members. I give mad respect to anyone who gets imprisoned directly by a god.
Awesome! Krathanos is definately my personal favorite of the NPCs in this adventure. Glad to hear you gave him his due.
When my PCs killed The Faceless One, I revealed that he was merely a simulacrum. I've been trying to figure out who the real Faceless One should be, and I'm thinking that it'll be Darl. There's a few inconsistencies I need to iron out, such as:
1) Faceless One was a wiz, and Darl is a clr. Maybe I'll make him a wiz/clr/mystic theurge. It would be fitting for a servant of Vecna, I think.
2) Darl is not part of the Ebon Triad...but he could be. Or perhaps he never believed in it and was merely playing theldrick and grallak for his own unknown purposes.
I don't think I'd pull any punches with Darl and Company. Here's something that might work well:
Have Darl Gate in a Pit Fiend (or use Greater Planar Ally) and coordinate a strike with the Fiend and Krekie against the PCs while they are camped. As the encounter unfolds, Darl will (of course) be scrying the party from somewhere nearby (within a mile or so). Once the Pit Fiend has been defeated, Darl and his group (who are in Wind Walk form) move in to mop up. Krekie knows this part of the plan, and so she will retreat to heal if she is badly wounded or the Pit Fiend looks to be in imminent danger of being destroyed. That gives her an opportunity to heal and then sneak back once Darl and the rest of the group show up.
For extra protection, the area from which Darl scries the Pit Fiend attack should be warded with something that prevents enemy scrying, such as Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum.
If you liked that treatment of Krathanos, allow me to expand on the resolution of the diplomacy:
When the party approached Krathanos, he stood up and took off his tank-top T-shirt expecting a fight. The party showed proper respect for a man of this “stature”.
As scripted, Krathanos’ mood swang often and unpredictably, but the players were gentle in their approach with him. He made no secret that he wanted off the island, and would consider trading his favorite possession (the belt) for freedom.
The party quietly consulted while Krathanos picked at his teeth. The PCs decided that he is extremely dangerous (they’re right), and that no matter where they took him (via Plane Shift), he would leave a wake of devastation. They settled on Seven Heavens of Celestia (or something like that), assuming that Thor, Moradin, and other powerful gods on this plane could keep him in check.
The PCs agree to transport Krathanos, who does not care about the destination. One spell later, and the party and Krathanos are in this Seven Heavens Plane. Krathanos casually takes off the golden belt, mumbling about getting another one (or perhaps reclaiming it later), and takes a few stretches. He leaps into the air (think the Hulk from the new movie), landing to do what he does best. The characters slink away rationalizing that it was for the better good (while Krathanos goes on a tear in the background).
While all this is going on, a friend is sitting in on the game (not playing). In the middle of this encounter, he has an awesome sketch of Krathanos from the perspective of a medium sized creature standing on the ground, about to be stomped on – golden belt, tank top, and all.
If you liked that treatment of Krathanos, allow me to expand on the resolution of the diplomacy:When the party approached Krathanos, he stood up and took off his tank-top T-shirt expecting a fight. The party showed proper respect for a man of this “stature”.
As scripted, Krathanos’ mood swang often and unpredictably, but the players were gentle in their approach with him. He made no secret that he wanted off the island, and would consider trading his favorite possession (the belt) for freedom.
The party quietly consulted while Krathanos picked at his teeth. The PCs decided that he is extremely dangerous (they’re right), and that no matter where they took him (via Plane Shift), he would leave a wake of devastation. They settled on Seven Heavens of Celestia (or something like that), assuming that Thor, Moradin, and other powerful gods on this plane could keep him in check.
The PCs agree to transport Krathanos, who does not care about the destination. One spell later, and the party and Krathanos are in this Seven Heavens Plane. Krathanos casually takes off the golden belt, mumbling about getting another one (or perhaps reclaiming it later), and takes a few stretches. He leaps into the air (think the Hulk from the new movie), landing to do what he does best. The characters slink away rationalizing that it was for the better good (while Krathanos goes on a tear in the background).
While all this is going on, a friend is sitting in on the game (not playing). In the middle of this encounter, he has an awesome sketch of Krathanos from the perspective of a medium sized creature standing on the ground, about to be stomped on – golden belt, tank top, and all.
That's awesome! They just let him loose on Celestia!!! I love it! Not a bad idea actually, considering there are plenty of outsiders around who have a good chance to bringing him to heel there. The only thing I can think of as bad is when those outsiders find out how he got there... ;-)
I don't think I'd pull any punches with Darl and Company. Here's something that might work well:
Have Darl Gate in a Pit Fiend (or use Greater Planar Ally) and coordinate a strike with the Fiend and Krekie against the PCs while they are camped. As the encounter unfolds, Darl will (of course) be scrying the party from somewhere nearby (within a mile or so). Once the Pit Fiend has been defeated, Darl and his group (who are in Wind Walk form) move in to mop up. Krekie knows this part of the plan, and so she will retreat to heal if she is badly wounded or the Pit Fiend looks to be in imminent danger of being destroyed. That gives her an opportunity to heal and then sneak back once Darl and the rest of the group show up.
I might try this, but am afraid its a bit mean-spirited.. While I say that they walked through Krathanos, that doesn't mean that they didn't expend a lot of resources defeating him. I want to run the module as intended but don't like setting up situations where the party can get TPK'd really easily (and my players are quite experienced and know when they're being set up)Since they're pretty low on spells, I think a Pit Fiend by itself or with Krekie would be alright...but again, if they walk through it, they'll have no respect for the Hand of the Lich Lord (I think he's quite respectable). I guess the best solution might be to set up the aforementioned encounter, but introduce Darl and Company only if the devil gets mopped. Then again, it could be overkill (9th level spells)...GRRR! Moral Dilemma. Do I choose story continuity or do I act on my interpretation of the villian and his possibilities? Help!
Do whatever will be the most fun for you and the players.
Plane shifting the titan to Carceri might have worked out well. Or is it Tarterus? Whichever is the prison plane.
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My PC's figured taking him off the Island was a bad idea. They lulled him, then beat him down. I had a Hexblade/Rogue, Barbarian/Fighter/Tempest, Cleric/Paladin/Warpriest, and a Wizard/Force Missile Mage/Elemental Savant. Krath just could not keep up with the damage they dealt out. Actually, most fights went that way. Any single combatant might take 1 character down, but the damage they could deal was amazing.
That's my fear.. Krathanos fell so easily, I doubt the same would happen at this point with something like a pit fiend. They were prepared for the Titan, but against what's coming, well..That's why Darl's Gate spell ain't gonna bring forth a Pit Fiend, but I'm thinking a Chronatryn (FF). I'm thinking such a creature is dangerous without being TPK material, as well having good reasons for helping Darl (Isle of Secrets and all). I'm running my encounter in 5 hours, so am probably gonna send in Chrono and Krekie followed by a windwalking evil party.. I wanted them to fight a summoned Nightwalker, but there's no connection to the plane of shadow on Tilagos (boo). I'll let others know how this turns out..
I do think a Pit Fiend is a bit of overkill, and they'll face one anyways in DoNA.
"Sweep, sweep..." (Wiping the dust of the thread) I'm just getting toward LoLR, and have been thinking about Darl...I wonder, is he thinking of me? *sigh*
The way I intend on running him: as the bearer of Vecna's hand, almost no secret/aspect of knowledge relating to the PCs--now famous heroes in their own right--should be unattainable to Darl. I hope to due him justice by giving him carte blanche to put up protective spells like spell immunity, specifically tailored to our arcane-heavy party's spell choices.
One thing I will do for him will have him approach the party after any given trial, when the party's resources are drained. I'm speculating Krekie will join him in the fight. With spells like dimension door and teleport moot, escape will be difficult.
As for gate...that's the one spell I always have problems with. Seems so powerful, doesn't it? But, it's a good idea. If I do decide to do that, I'll probably gate in a Molydeus from Fiendish Codex 1. Been wanting to use those guys for a while now.
"Sweep, sweep..." (Wiping the dust of the thread) I'm just getting toward LoLR, and have been thinking about Darl...I wonder, is he thinking of me? *sigh*
The way I intend on running him: as the bearer of Vecna's hand, almost no secret/aspect of knowledge relating to the PCs--now famous heroes in their own right--should be unattainable to Darl. I hope to due him justice by giving him carte blanche to put up protective spells like spell immunity, specifically tailored to our arcane-heavy party's spell choices.
One thing I will do for him will have him approach the party after any given trial, when the party's resources are drained. I'm speculating Krekie will join him in the fight. With spells like dimension door and teleport moot, escape will be difficult.
As for gate...that's the one spell I always have problems with. Seems so powerful, doesn't it? But, it's a good idea. If I do decide to do that, I'll probably gate in a Molydeus from Fiendish Codex 1. Been wanting to use those guys for a while now.
Mean, and very dirty...I like it!
I agree, Darl should really know everything about the party if you want him too. If I were running AoW, I would be sure to air dirty laundry like illegitimate children, affairs with other PC's wives, patricides and other skeletons in the closet...
What?
Don't your groups have these kinds of problems? ;-)
I like the look of Darl quethos and am giving him a bit more of an intro... first off the currant group of PCs(who will also do the AoWAP)have just met him as a low level cleric with a group of members of the ebon triad. The PCs were high level and had just completed a long adventure on the Isle of dread and the last group of their rivals had just been defeated(including these strange cleric who called them selves the ebon triad).they proceded to loot the area and found the hand of vecna. Darl managed to steal it while they were occupied appraising several large black pearls (even at high levels none of the chariters have good skill in spot...)and got away. I think ill have them hear more of him at some point but im not sure where yet.
I'm actually putting an interesting spin on Darl. He's going to essentially be the pope of the World. He will congratulate the Characters for saving the city after the Champions Games but council them to find a less violent profession. They will meet a few of his accolade's, but not all of them. For one, Krieke will be absent, but she will be the same kenku the party let live.
After the Champions Games he will go on a search for the Hand of Vecna, similar to the holy grail, while at the same time keeping tabs on the players. No one expects him to return, and so the bishops begin squabbling pettily over his power. When he does, the hand will make him absolute ruler of the Necropolis, apart from the emperor himself.
Thus, guild services and imported items from the Necropolis may become more expensive, based on the council of Darl. When asked about this, friendly merchants reply that a Religious leader has jacked up all prices for "Elves, Warforged, Dwarves and men traveling in a party." Of course, this is easy to get around, simply buy things separately.
The players are really going to hate Darl.
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In my campaign, I'm having Darl actually be Filge (A dread necromancer), who was captured the second time the party fought him (he won the first time).
He escaped from the Temple to the Silver Flame (St. Cuthbert).
When one of the characters retired (I seem to have a lot of turnover), the character went off to track down Filge and bring him to justice.
My final twist was having Darl summon a Chronotryn (Fiend Folio, I believe), with gate. The time-fiend and Krekie ambushed them in their sleep. The moment this encounter ended, Darl and the whole crew came windwalking in, spells and weapons at the ready. This forced them to plane-shift off the isle, and involved a sidequest getting back. Darl proceeded to ressurect his minotaur buddy (I rolled up a 12th level minotaur fighter), and set up an ambush at the entry point on last resort. A fierce battle ensued, but they ended up winning the day. Everyone was slain except the Malhazzar (my favorite of the group, who planesfited away), and the sinfire twins, who got eaten by the fauna.
Darl gave them a run for their money by far. I "meta-gamed" against them, since I knew due to all his scrying that he knew all about them. I recommend everyone who runs him to have fun; he's definitely one of the most powerful NPC's in the campaign.
Update on Darl...R.I.P. (Ah, the best laid plans of mice and men...)
Well, a tip from me: if you plan on running Darl as a challenging encounter, don't do what I did.
It started out innocent enough. The party had beaten Harrowdroth, and rested in the cave. Next morning, a Tilagos bulette attacked. A few resources spent, but not many. They then wind walked to the nest of the Roc King. Enter girallon behemoth. Same deal, a few resources. They raise the Roc King, it gets angry, they pull out a feather, and it runs off.
They return to Harrowdroth's lair, where our diviner casts a spell from the Spell Compendium (I think) called hindsight, to see if Darl et al had been there. Nope...but...here's where I got cute.
I decided to justify his wasting a 9th level spell, Darl and his buds would be approaching via wind walk the lair. The diviner, now finished with his spell, spots him with a nat 20, as a mass of gaseous clouds. He asks how far are they...oh, about 100-150 feet. Specifically? 130. Well...
He rolls initiative, flies out with a move action (has dragonwrought wings he took a feat for), uses a quickened haste to give him +30ft of movement, and hurls a Mordenkainen's Disjuction at the whole lot. For a usually cautious player, we all about heard our jaws hit the table.
Picture this: Darl, his tiefling twins, and the molydeus (I did use it), crash to the thorny terrain below, taking falling and piercing damage. All Darl's buffs are negated, and while he kept most of his magic items intact, almost everyone else's were disjoined. They were sitting ducks.
Here's where I should have had Darl plane shift away...but I opted to try to punish the party. Darl tried implode on said diviner, but the diviner made his save. A meteor swarm later--all directed at him, no less, with the bludgeoning damage alone enough to finish the Vecna priest--and the hand of the lich-lord was no more, and the battle was practically won.
Here's the ironic best part: the only line Darl had the chance to say to the party in response was, "I never saw this coming!" Neither did I Darl, neither did I.
Please excuse my clumsiness in hitting the return key instead of the shift key. Anyhow, as I was mentioning...Hierophantasm I believe you gave your group a freebee. The Hindsight spell states that it is a 60ft radius emanation centered on the caster. You mentioned Darl and the party were 100 to 150 feet away which I believe would have prevented the caster from seeing the party.
Also I take it the wizard was at least level 17 with a high intel to cast two ninth level spells back to back or is this because of the Diviner specialty?
With that being said, your Diviner came up with a very good plan and changed the odds drastically. I would probable give your Diviner a 10% experience bonus.
Please excuse my clumsiness in hitting the return key instead of the shift key. Anyhow, as I was mentioning...Hierophantasm I believe you gave your group a freebee. The Hindsight spell states that it is a 60ft radius emanation centered on the caster. You mentioned Darl and the party were 100 to 150 feet away which I believe would have prevented the caster from seeing the party.
Also I take it the wizard was at least level 17 with a high intel to cast two ninth level spells back to back or is this because of the Diviner specialty?
With that being said, your Diviner came up with a very good plan and changed the odds drastically. I would probable give your Diviner a 10% experience bonus.
Hmm...my player described the spell as being one that allowed him to determine whether Darl and his buds had been to Harrowdroth's lair yet, which I had surmised would have been a no. He was, at least I think, trying to determine what Darl's status on his attempt to unlock the Library of Last Resort was. Our diviner spotted Darl as a gaseous entity--with his friends--after finishing his spell. (In truth, I probably should have checked out the spell in detail.)
As a matter of fact, he was 17th level, a diviner, and had an Intelligence of 28 (w/a +6 headband of intellect, all four stat points allocated, and an 18 to start). Actually, it should have rung some bells for me when he cast so many 9th level spells. Of course, he has taken levels of Master Specialist from Complete Mage, though I haven't taken too good of a look at it.
As for the experience, I have to agree that the fight was practically a freebee...so, extra experience, might've been a little too generous. Still, I was hoping he might disjoin the Hand of Vecna. Ooo, the possibilities!