RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Okay, I am currently playing in a Forgotten Realms game where I am playing a Necromancer/Spellsword who is a member of a Sembian mercenary company and has recently been assigned his next mission: to find and bring back several Halruuan mages, dead or alive.
My current levels are Ftr 2/Necro 6/SplSwd 5. My prohibited schools are Illusion and Conjuration. Fortunately, it looks like I'm going to be able to take these mages on one at a time but I'm a little worried since I happen to know approximately what I'm dealing with. One of the mages is a level 13 Enchanter (prohibited schools Evocation and Necromancy), another is a level 12 Illusionist (prohibited schools unknown). There are also three other mages between levels 9 and 12 who I believe are not specialists. My character had the advantage of being given dossiers on the targets and they don't necessarily know that I'm coming for them.
I'm effectively a 9th level caster for the purposes of spells per day and thus can cast up to 5th level spells. I took Practiced Spellcaster from the Complete Arcane, so I'm technically a 13th level caster for spell penetration and damage dice. I also took Sudden Maximize from the same book for one more dirty trick up my sleeve. Because of the storyline and the character's backstory, I have almost no cash on hand and very few magical items. My most significant possession is a +1 keen ghost touch bastard sword and a suit of +1 glamered breastplate armor that I can comfortably cast spells in (thanks to Spellsword). I also have a lesser rod of metamagic (Extend) and that's it for magical gear. My reason for posting this thread is this:
What are some suggestions for taking down these spellcasters at my level, by myself, with no money to purchase additional magical items or hire NPCs to help? I believe I have included enough viable information here to let everyone know what the character is capable of and I do have Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in Necromancy if that helps anyone's decisions. I have no stealth capability and no access to spells like invisibility or teleport to help me out, but I do have divinations like locate creature and scrying to give me an idea of where to find them. I only have names and vague descriptions to go on, however, so that's not terribly useful (especially considering the fact that these casters likely have more magical equipment than I do and are certainly on their guard since they know that they are hunted criminals).
Just looking for suggestions on how to approach this, really. It's gonna be a tough fight for sure. Thank in advance for the input!
Well, your a necromancer; am surprized you didnt take any undead enhanceing creation feats; just make an army kick some butt; you have an unexhaustable supply most everywhere; do the zerg meathod to use up any enemies spells for combat and healing. You should be able to find some decent undead allies also and perhaps command a few into service.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Well, your a necromancer; am surprized you didnt take any undead enhanceing creation feats; just make an army kick some butt; you have an unexhaustable supply most everywhere; do the zerg meathod to use up any enemies spells for combat and healing.
The problem with animate dead however, is that it costs 50gp per HD of the creature to be animated for the material component. I don't have that kind of cash.
25. It's 25 gold per HD. Still somewhat expensive for something that could actually be of use to you, but only half as much as what you were calculating.
Otherwise, I've got nothing else to contribute at the moment.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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25. It's 25 gold per HD. Still somewhat expensive for something that could actually be of use to you, but only half as much as what you were calculating.
Otherwise, I've got nothing else to contribute at the moment.
Ah, okay. Yeah, still a bit too pricey for my needs, especially considering I've got to take on FIVE mages and bring them all the way back to Sembia. Even if I could get an army of undead going, the first mage I went after would nuke them to pieces with fireball and lightning bolt. Sure, I've used up his combat spells and can proceed with the asskicking, but my army is dust and I've got 4 enemies left. Then what?
Most of my use of Necromancy focuses on vampiric touch and ghoul touch channeled through my sword (Spellsword ability). I am also a big fan of enervation and my Sudden Maximized cone of cold. Scorching ray also sees a lot of use. These are my main attack spells, but I'm plenty capable with no magic at all (+10 BAB). The big problem I'm facing is the fact that I'll be dealing with things like greater dispel magic, globe of invulnerability, and people who can use dimension door and teleport.
If I can nail one of them with blindness/deafness early on, that'll give me an upper hand (50% miss chance or 20% spell failure on them) and bestow curse will definitely help (if they manage to fail the Will save... unlikely). That's kinda my plan thus far. I could really use a bit more to complete my strategy.
Director of Narrative
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Know your enemies. Unless you are on a schedule, once you find them, watch them for a while. By "a while" I don't mean a few hours. More like a few days. Heck a week or two if you can pull it off.
Make friends with people who might not like one or all of the wizards. Buy those people drinks. Learn as much as you can about their daily habits.
Add all of your intel together and find the best place/time/spell list to achieve your task. Isolate them from each other if at all possible to take them on one on one. Treat it like an assassination.
Maybe these wizards don't even get along. Exploit this. Try to turn one or more of them against the others and then just clean up the aftermath.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Know your enemies. Unless you are on a schedule, once you find them, watch them for a while. By "a while" I don't mean a few hours. More like a few days. Heck a week or two if you can pull it off.
I don't have a strict schedule per se, but I imagine that the more I pry, the more likely the mages are going to figure out that I'm onto them.
Make friends with people who might not like one or all of the wizards. Buy those people drinks. Learn as much as you can about their daily habits.
Unfortunately, the character is a very dour fellow (Necromancer, after all) and has a Charisma of 8 with no ranks in Diplomacy, Bluff, or Gather Information. The social aspect is probably not the wisest approach.
Add all of your intel together and find the best place/time/spell list to achieve your task. Isolate them from each other if at all possible to take them on one on one. Treat it like an assassination.
This was the idea that I had. If I happen to catch more than one of them at the same time, I'm pretty much screwed. Fighting them in groups is right out of the question unless I can get the drop on them with a maximized cone of cold and just kill the lot of them before they get a chance to prepare. Again, though, unlikely with my complete lack of stealth ability.
Maybe these wizards don't even get along. Exploit this. Try to turn one or more of them against the others and then just clean up the aftermath.
This is something I hadn't really considered. I'll have to check the dossiers to see if these wizards have any bad blood between them. Maybe I can frame one of them somehow and get some in-fighting started. Good idea! Thanks!
hmmmm, an interesting problem. First off, I wouldn't suggest direct confrontation with any of these guys. They are just too high of level.
Now, you are going to have to play a war of attrition with these guys. Keep in mind that a wizard's power comes from his spells and that he needs a full night's sleep to prepare new ones. Make sure he never gets the chance. Harrass him inccessantly. Alert city guards that there is a dangerous criminal in their city, lead wild animals to his camp when he is on the road, tip of local bandits or theives guild members that this guy is a potentially hot mark or anything to keep the guy on his toes. None of these ideas are going to bring him down, but you should be able to make him use up valuable spells and prevent him from getting enough sleep to prepare new ones. Only once he is low on spells, HP and exhausted do you make your strike.
It could be a bit ticky to pull off, but it sure beats facing a fully prepared high level caster.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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hmmmm, an interesting problem. First off, I wouldn't suggest direct confrontation with any of these guys. They are just too high of level.
Now, you are going to have to play a war of attrition with these guys. Keep in mind that a wizard's power comes from his spells and that he needs a full night's sleep to prepare new ones. Make sure he never gets the chance. Harrass him inccessantly. Alert city guards that there is a dangerous criminal in their city, lead wild animals to his camp when he is on the road, tip of local bandits or theives guild members that this guy is a potentially hot mark or anything to keep the guy on his toes. None of these ideas are going to bring him down, but you should be able to make him use up valuable spells and prevent him from getting enough sleep to prepare new ones. Only once he is low on spells, HP and exhausted do you make your strike.
It could be a bit ticky to pull off, but it sure beats facing a fully prepared high level caster.
I love this idea! It will certainly be difficult to pull off as the mages in question are an established presence in the city I'm headed to but I don't know whether they have the local guards under their thumb or not. The only problem with involving guards is that I'm a mercenary. My client wants me to bring the wizards to him, dead or alive. If the guards get ahold of them, they'll throw them in jail and then it'll be a real problem trying to get them out.
Transporting 5 dead bodies over a thousand miles by boat is going to be a chore all by itself, but I'm pretty sure gentle repose and shrink item should make it manageable. I've basically given up trying to take them alive at this point. The client didn't offer any more money for live ones, so I don't see any reason to go through the extra effort.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Try to get them separately. If you can get close enough, use Sudden Maximise with Ray of Enfeeblement, that'll give a -11 penalty to Strength for 13 minutes (26 with the Rod). Then grapple the badguy into unconsciousness; the PC can then tie him up or kill him as you desire. Ray of enfeeblement doesn't allow a save (unlike Bestow Curse), and they can have Globe of Invulnerability up for only a short time.
Oooh... I like this plan. I can slap some chill touch on there to drain the Strength down even further until they hit zero! Once a character is at 0 in any stat, we all know what happens. :)
Globe of invulnerability lasts for 1 round per caster level, so that is definately a concern of mine. 13 rounds is plenty of time for a 13th level wizard to ruin my day. I'm really worried about a disintegrate spell. Even though my Fort save is +10, a successful hit and failed save will take a big chunk out of my 95 hp.
are they looking for apprentices? if so and you have time act like a "novice" mage looking for help from the masters, keep your weapons and armor in a secret, yet easy to reach location and sometime in the night... yup those pillows shure are fluffy. I wonder if a mage can do the vocalization through them.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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are they looking for apprentices? if so and you have time act like a "novice" mage looking for help from the masters, keep your weapons and armor in a secret, yet easy to reach location and sometime in the night... yup those pillows shure are fluffy. I wonder if a mage can do the vocalization through them.
While certainly an amusing idea, I point back to my earlier note that the character has an 8 Charisma and no ranks in Bluff or Diplomacy. I would be as transparent as crystal.
charisma? who said an apprentice has to be charismatic... you could do the entire interview without a single bluff, after all you are weaker than them and may be looking for a master also if your dm is realllly nice mayb they could teach you some things before you offed em
That's true. So long as you don't actually lie, there is no need for a bluff check. The Maximized Ray of Enfeeblement combined with the grapple sounds like the best idea to me. If you could get the drop on them before they had time to prep, it would be easy, but you mentioned not having any stealth abilities. Even the highest initiative won't help you if you can't get close enough to use it.
you just had to choose illusion as a barred school didn't you? :) You do realize how much invisibility would help you here? You could still get a potion or two of it, mixed with a scroll of fly. To my knowledge, the subject of a fly spell makes no noise while moving (or not much, and Listen is cross-class for mages!), and you can still take the potion of invisibility to give yourself more of a chance at stealth.
Gaseous cloud is another route you can go to get close before they know you're there.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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you just had to choose illusion as a barred school didn't you? :) You do realize how much invisibility would help you here? You could still get a potion or two of it, mixed with a scroll of fly. To my knowledge, the subject of a fly spell makes no noise while moving (or not much, and Listen is cross-class for mages!), and you can still take the potion of invisibility to give yourself more of a chance at stealth.
The potion of invisibility is certainly a viable option. I think I might have enough cash for that. I have about 300gp total that could get spent. As for the fly spell, I can cast that on my own (it's Transmutation). No need for a scroll.
The enervation early on is certainly a viable option for taking out the caster's ability to cast 6th level spells. I could Sudden Maximize it to make sure that I take out their highest slots. Then we're on an even ground for spellcasting and I have the upper hand with melee skill and hit points (unless they hit me with enervation too... which would suck).
A Sudden Maximized scorching ray would almost certainly kill one if they didn't have any defenses up and all three rays hit (72 damage versus 13d4 HD). I do have the Silent Spell feat... I could memorize it as a silent scorching ray, Sudden Maximize it from under the veil of invisibility and they would have NO CHANCE to counterspell me. I kinda wish I had gaseous form as that would make getting into their sanctum much easier, but I don't. I don't even have passwall... but I DO have blink. That could be risky, but it might work. Something else to consider. Keep the ideas coming, guys! I've got until this weekend to come up with something.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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* Consider using command undead to gain shadow or wraith allies.
This is certainly a good option. I'm not sure what the duration on that spell is, though. If it would last for numerous days it would be viable. Now the only problem is finding shadows and wraiths somewhere in Halruua...
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Command undead lasts 1 day per caster level (and it's a 2nd-level spell !!).
Hmm... that means I could use my lesser rod of metamagic (Extend) on it! I could have them under my control for nearly an entire month! This is great! Now, if I could just remember the HD restrictions on the spell... I believe I can control up to double my HD in undead at any given time? What are the typical hit dice on shadows and wraiths? Like 4 or 5 each, isn't it? Wraiths are a little higher, I think. Hmmm... I definitely need to find some of these lying around.
The option with enervation and other stat draining spells, combined with grapple is an excellent option. Think also, that a caster can't cast tied up and gagged, especially if you catch him in his sleep. If you have access to the book Shining South, there are spells that help cause paralysis and other nasty little side effects.
300 gp to spend right?
a 12th level warrior costs 36 sp to be hired for 1 day
now... get em all assembled... hand out pay... and bang almost 100 mercenaries on your beck and call
or buy off 1500 1st level warriors for a day, either works even if its only to take the zerg method (send 100 at a time)
the prices are from 3.5 dmg
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Shadows have 3 HD, wraiths have 5 HD. Having just looked at the spell description for you, HD limits aren't mentined, so don't appear to apply (only with animate undead and create undead spells). Of course, you have to find them first- and you probably don't want them to fail the saving throw... ;-)
Actually, I probably *DO* want them to fail the saving throw as succeeding at the saving throw means they come after me. Not that I'm terribly worried about incorporeal undead. I'm a Necromancer with a ghost touch bastard sword and Fortitude is my highest save. 5 HD undead? Not an issue.
The option with enervation and other stat draining spells, combined with grapple is an excellent option. Think also, that a caster can't cast tied up and gagged, especially if you catch him in his sleep. If you have access to the book Shining South, there are spells that help cause paralysis and other nasty little side effects.
Catching them in their sleep is unlikely. I fully expect them to have magical traps and wards all over their sanctums. As for the Shining South, I sadly do not have access to that.
300 gp to spend right?
a 12th level warrior costs 36 sp to be hired for 1 day
now... get em all assembled... hand out pay... and bang almost 100 mercenaries on your beck and call
or buy off 1500 1st level warriors for a day, either works even if its only to take the zerg method (send 100 at a time)
LMAO! While this approach is certainly amusing as hell, I doubt it will work because I know the DM and he's very similar to me with his opinions on these things. *I* wouldn't allow something like this and I doubt he will either. If this were the case and ANYONE with a mere 300gp could pull this off, you'd be fighting armies of warriors at every turn because the BAD GUYS would do the same thing.
Think of it this way:
PC: "Okay, here's your 36 silver. Now, what I need you to do is attack this powerful wizard with everything you've got. He's going to start throwing fireballs and all sorts of craziness at you and, honestly, I expect a lot of you to die. Your lives are only worth 36 silver, right?"
Warrior: "...."
PC: "Okay, IF you die, I will gladly take back your 36 silver from your body, place an onyx in your mouth, and reanimate you as one of my zombie minions to serve until you are utterly destroyed. Sound good?"
Warrior: "...."
PC: "Excellent! CHARGE!"
...yeah. No. Funny, but definitely no.
while I admit it was an odd if not stupid suggestion (sorry)
I must refute that everyone would do it. after ll thats only for a single day, Its around 90 grand for a year and few people need 1 shot soldiers
and I like your little commentary =)
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I must refute that everyone would do it. after ll thats only for a single day, Its around 90 grand for a year and few people need 1 shot soldiers
I was thinking more along the lines of:
-evil wizard uses scrying on the party to locate them.
-evil wizard hires 100 lvl 12 thugs for only 300gp
-100 lvl 12 thugs UTTERLY ANNIHILATE the party of lvl 8-10 adventurers
-game is over
here are some "serious" straight forward tactics:
Stony grasp to grapple him in an area of natural ground (CA)
Another Sell from CA is burning blood dealing 1d8 fire and 1d8 acid damage per round for 1 round/level. also any rpound in which they fail their save they may take only a single move action.
Touch of Idiocy (PH) is an increadible mage take down spell as there is no saving throw and it deals 1d6 damage to Int, Wis, AND Cha.
Hold person as always is a save-or die much of the time, the downside being that its a will based save
A combination of a successful bestow curse to Int and maximized touch of idiocy is another possible game ender (-12 Int)
or assuming you really get the drop... maximized touch of idiocy (-3 Spell levels possibly, -3 Will saves), then curse (-4 saves) they now have -7 to will save, Curse (additional -6 Int) Assuming it all goes according to plan they are now down 6 spell levels and have horrible will saves so finish up with something like charm person or hold person
To counter mind controll "wear" a protection from evil
To reconnoiter use scrying and arcane eye
Expeditious retreat to get there fast
Gaseous form is Trans btw and I think it costs 300gp to "learn" into a spellbook
NEVER fight them in an open area, a dimension door could ruin your da in an area without walls to hide behind.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Awesome suggestions, Rhavin. Stony grasp and burning blood are not spells I currently have, but I do have touch of idiocy. The curses are only marginally liable to succeed. My save DC for bestow curse is 20 and the wizard's base save at those levels is 7 or 8 plus 1 or 2 (most likely) from Wisdom. A roughly 50% chance to succeed. Still though, probably worth a shot.
What I'm hoping for is to get in quick and smack 'em with a ghoul touch for paralysis and then a coup de grace. It's a Fortitude save and my save DC is 18 for that spell, so the wizard will likely have difficulty making it unless they manage to get a globe of invulnerability off or happen to have an item that grants freedom of movement somehow. I've given thought to maybe casting the ghoul touch in advance and then holding the charge until I can get next to them in the streets or something before unleashing godawful death on them. The problem with this idea is that I'll be murdering someone in full view of everyone around me. This would lead to problems I would rather like to avoid.
hmmmmm... that would work If the guards knew that the wizards were evil and also werent in their pay. as such you could make an arrangements with the city wach to turn a blind eye
thats not likely though
and I made an error... the ToI and Curse endows a possible -12 spells levels rather than -6, enough to stop all but the most intelligent of mages. And you forget the -3 to will saves from the -6 Wis imposed by a Max ToI
The ghoul touch could still work however, do you know their possible defences including henchmen, traps, and magical items?
As always, battle plans only last untill the first round of engagement.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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The ghoul touch could still work however, do you know their possible defences including henchmen, traps, and magical items?
Not yet. The dossiers I received only has information about the wizards themselves as well as their locations. Any reconnaisance will have to be done on my own. Although, the dossier notes that the Enchanter does have a minion that follows him around. The DM has hinted very strongly at the fact that this guy has levels in the Thrallmaster (I think that's what its called) PrC, so its possible that I might be dealing with this guy's 'pet' as well as him. Thankfully, I know his prohibited schools are Evocation and Necromancy which means he won't be counterspelling most of my really nasty stuff.
The illusionist is going to be a real pain in the ass. I just hope one of his prohibited schools is Abjuration... but I REEAEAALLY doubt I'm that lucky.