Is the Sage available?
Some background, P37 of the PHB 3.5 under Wild Shape states "The new form's hit dice can't exceed the character's druid level."
ok; all fine and well but, on pg 59 of Complete Adventurer there lists the prestige class Master of Many Forms that has the improved wild shape ability; hence my question, does this class also follow the restriction of hit dice of character druid level or druid level + master of shapes level and if so, why is the shapechange to dragon, the 10th level ability even on there. I looked through all the dragons and the only possibilites for say a 5 level druid and 10th level MoS is wyvernm, psuedo dragon, young or juevanal dragons; and the half dragon and possibly the half dragon celestial naga or some such. With the number of hit dice these dragons have the druid or MoS could never really play a dragon that is even equal to their own power level. Most giants are also out of reach in this manner. What is the intent of this ability and does the Master of Shapes have the hit dice limitiation; please clarify; thanks much.
Additionally, is there any plans to add magical beasts or outsiders to the master of shapes list; perhaps for epic shapechanging?
Before you delve too deep into figuring this one out... have you seen the errata that came out a few months ago about shapechange/wild shape? Basically, the divorced it from the polymorph spell chain and instead made it work off the Alternate Form ability in the Monster Manual. Then, they made alterations to Alternate Form as well.
To catch all the changes, you'll need to download the errata files from WotC's site for both the PHB and the MM.
hmm; how do I find the erratta; and no I had not heard this; the current issue of Dragon had some stuff about polymorph and my q seems to fit; but is nice that it is divorced from poly as that opens up new opportunities; am still hoping to get a rules answer.
ok; I read the erratta for the PHB 3.5 and the CoA and it says that the levels for druid wildshape or any wildshape adds with the Master of Shapes level. It seems to apply that their is still a level limit which makes this ability tree totally stupid unless the silly designer thinks that becoming a psuedo dragon or wyvern or young adult dragon at 20th level; totally wimpy and useless except for flying around as your speed isnt to bad; better to take the feat in races of stone to become a bulette; or use willowisp to fight mages; but the dragon part is not well though out. I dont know how many of you out there have 40th level characters; but that or more is what it will take to be a dragon worth a spit.
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ok; I read the erratta for the PHB 3.5 and the CoA and it says that the levels for druid wildshape or any wildshape adds with the Master of Shapes level. It seems to apply that their is still a level limit which makes this ability tree totally stupid unless the silly designer thinks that becoming a psuedo dragon or wyvern or young adult dragon at 20th level; totally wimpy and useless except for flying around as your speed isnt to bad; better to take the feat in races of stone to become a bulette; or use willowisp to fight mages; but the dragon part is not well though out. I dont know how many of you out there have 40th level characters; but that or more is what it will take to be a dragon worth a spit.
The master of many forms prestige class eventually grants the shapechanger all of the extraordinary abilities of the forms they assume. Even if you're changing into a young adult dragon, that still gives you acid breath which can certainly come in handy. Add to this the fact that your wild shape takes only a move action and you've got a nasty combination. Take the spring attack or fly-by attack feats and you can do all kinds of horrible things to people. Even if the damage doesn't 'stack-up' because you can only become a 20 HD dragon, let's keep in mind things like armor with the 'wild' ability from the DMG (revised to 'beastskin' in Complete Adventurer, I believe). Add all that dragon natural armor to your +5 wild leather and you've got some serious AC. Plus breath weapons, spell immunities (polymorph, sleep, etc.), and a rather good fly speed, you've got a rather nasty opponent with the ability to cast 5th level druid spells to boot (assuming druid 10/master 10)! Just because you can't become a great wyrm does not mean that the ability to turn into a dragon is useless. Learn to think outside the box and all the dreadful things you can do with just the abilities that come with simply BEING a dragon. Frightful Presence, anyone?
All very good and true points, Fatespinner, I just had a pre-game vision of turning into an elder worm of the day sunning myself on the cliffs above a village that lived back to nature lest I disrupt their lives; sigh, is there life after epic? has anyone played a game long enough to become 40th or 50th to attain the aspect of this great creature? I have a dream....
btw; i dont really think the breathweapon at that level is very much to crow about though; I dont think it keeps up with caster damage of the same level, though I may be wrong; and the dc is not very high so saves will be common.
I personally wouldn't even take levels in the Master of Many Forms PrC.
A way better one (for the wild shaping druid) I think is the Shifter, found in the Masters of the Wild book...Way better Wild Shape options.
And since I play a druid, I have looked at the MoMF several times, weighed the differences with the shifter and I found the shifter way better.
Also with the dragon improved wild shape ability in the MoMF...guess why they make the Dragon Wild Shape and epic feat...
The DH
like armor with the 'wild' ability from the DMG (revised to 'beastskin' in Complete Adventurer, I believe).
Another thing with the shifter is that you can choose which armor or rings or necklaces or other various items to not "meld" into your form, and then they resize to fit you so that you can just choose to have your Ironwood Full-plate with greater electricity resistance not to meld in with your dragon form so that you just death all the other enemies...(not that you would need it though...lol..._
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A way better one (for the wild shaping druid) I think is the Shifter, found in the Masters of the Wild book...Way better Wild Shape options.
Masters of the Wild was a 3.0 book. The Shifter was rewritten into the Master of Many Forms in the Complete Adventurer because the Shifter was overpowered. :P
As for Vale's comment about the breath weapon damage and DCs not keeping up with casters, you're absolutely right! If you were a caster, you could do much more damage with much higher saves... and you would be stuck in one form with d4 hit dice and little to no armor. This is why you are a druid with d8s and leather with the ability to shapeshift into giant eagles to fly away as a move action which cannot be interrupted by damage (unlike spellcasting). The classes are balanced. If you want big damage, be a wizard or sorcerer (or god forbid, a warmage). If you want versatility and combat control, be a druid/MoMF. :)
Personally, I dont think that the ability to change into a dragon is much of an ability and see many other more preferable creatures. As always, I think the game has made the dragons far to wimpy; perhaps, in most peoples worlds I dont think there are many dragons anyhow; the dragons in the book as given would be good if you had whole lands and areas populated by dragons; but if you world only has a few; I would think they would be much tuffer or would all have been killed by groups of epic characters.
hehe I forgot what I was gonna say; sheesh getting old and more blonde.
Oh yeah, The book for master of shapes doesnt say and it doesnt even imply this; but some of my friends think a master of shapes should only be able to change into forms that he has personally seen. This limits the class a whole lot; anyone know what the class creators were thinking; any thoughts on this? The class implies that at various levels you can turn into various types of creatures; would suck to get a new power that you cant use because you have never met that particular monster. Would a knowledge of monster lore suffice? or study or whatnot? Any thoughts?
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Oh yeah, The book for master of shapes doesnt say and it doesnt even imply this; but some of my friends think a master of shapes should only be able to change into forms that he has personally seen. This limits the class a whole lot; anyone know what the class creators were thinking; any thoughts on this? The class implies that at various levels you can turn into various types of creatures; would suck to get a new power that you cant use because you have never met that particular monster. Would a knowledge of monster lore suffice? or study or whatnot? Any thoughts?
That strikes me as a particularly unnecessary limitation on a prestige class that's already less than stellar to begin with. I can see the "logic" in it, but it's not very compelling. This is the same line of reasoning that leads to the questioning of how wizards or sorcerers learn new spells without ever having seen them cast.
That being said, I suppose if you really wanted to do something like that, you could have the character make an appropriate Knowledge check to see if they've heard of the creature into which they want to change. Requiring that the PC actually have seen the monster strikes me as far too limiting.