Just wondering what everyone's thoughts were about the new Player's Handbook II.
Personally, I thought that the material as presented was well done and mainly balanced, though I haven't inserted any of it into my campaign to be sure. I thought the Knight class was particularly well done and the inclusion of the new spells was more of an "eh, whatever," though a few were nice.
I like the *idea* of retooling a character; changing your ideals and goals as the character progresses through the ranks is only natural after all, but what's to stop a character from just leaving the group and creating a new one?
I like that the book was more of less aimed at the newer player, of which I have 4 in my group. I have no doubt that the 2 other, much more experienced players, will find useful things in the book as well, but reading the book from cover to cover (or just those sections that apply to them, for that matter) should greatly enhance the other player's awareness of the game, and thereby enhance their gaming experience.
I like the new feats. I think they're really interesting, and a few are quite innovative. There are a number of feats that seem "better" than many of the feats we've seen published recently, but I don't think they're unbalanced or unfair - they seem to be designed so that higher-level characters will have some really interesting choices and options.
The new classes seem equally well thought out. My only dissatisfaction is that the Spell Compendium spells were apparently avoided for the two classes that got new spell lists (other than three "Sudden" spells, but those are easy to explain without reprinting). I understand why it happened, they don't want to force someone to have the Spell Compendium in order to use those classes, but I'd like to see at least a web enhancement that says, "If you want to use spells from the Spell Compendium, add these..."
Most of the Substitutions for the core classes seemed not-too-interesting to me, but I guess that's better than if any were no-brainer, everyone-must-do type options. I'm still trying to decide what I think about the Druid Shapeshift option.
I've not yet read through most of the rest.
I am eagerly awaiting this book. I flipped through it at Barnes & Noble and some of the concepts intrigue me. When I get it, I'll probably post a more in-depth review of it. The section that intrigues me most is the "retooling" - it may have use in my current campaign.
I haven't seen the book yet, so this is an uninformed opinion, but this seems like a familiar tactic for Wizards...just another excuse to sell a book and/or appeal to the munchkins who always want better powers, better skills, a better class, etc, plus it's more hassle for the DMs trying to keep up with everything. Oh, I'm sure there's probably some neat stuff in there, but enough 'quality' stuff for another expensive hard-cover book? Probably not would be my guess.
I disagree. I find that any book out there that helps to define the way some player wants to play is benificial to the whole pencil and paper RPG community. I am not a munchkin, but I am a DM that is vastly interested in having my players find ways to emmerse themselves into the world that I've created.
And, even though I've only read through about 3/4th of the book, I can see using much of it. Maybe I've just lowered my expectations over the years so I am happy with whatever WotC puts out, but I do think that much of their published material is worth it (I don't buy the stuff that I don't think is worth it, nor those books that don't interest me). Based on their sales, I'd say that other folks think WotC has some good stuff, too.
I haven't completely absorbed the book yet, but overall I'm very impressed. I was expecting another piece of crap like DMG II, so maybe my low expectations are to blame.
I thought most of the classes were great (I especially like the Knight, while the Dragon Shaman was so-so). I liked the alternate class features and the character concepts. What I've read of the feats and spells seems pretty good.
For some reason the element that most sparked my interest were the affiliations. Honestly I thought most of the example affiliations were lame, but it's a ood concept. I like the idea of characters connected to something other than the party, and even if I didn't most clerics and paladins almost come with a built-in affiliation. Until now the only crunchy representation of such things were the occasional prestige class... after reading the associated classes in the FR books, the last time I had an NPC Harper approach the party they told him where he could stick his pin. I thought this was a great alternative; hopefully we'll see more affiliations in the future.
i really like the new feats. lots of them have a high prerequisite (+12 base attack etc) so will be more usefull to high level characters than a +1 on weapon focus etc.
no major spells that i had to add to my groups spell lists like i did the day after i got the spell compendium bt im sure one or two will make there way into the campaign. the altenate class features are ok for a little flavour and i know the ranger pc in the group is gonna take distraction because he and the party thief have a double team shortbow thing going. this is gonna make them super effective.:)
I only skimmed through the PHII, but I focused mostly on the 4 new classes. The Knight pc class will make for some excellent roleplaying experiences. IMO the info on the Knight alone is worth the purchase. I also enjoy the artwork. I will have to admit, I buy almost everything WOTC publishes. Even if the content is of no interest or just plain poor, I still love the artwork.
Utak
The Affiliations also sparked my interest as well, simply because I have a player who's started his own adventuring guild, and this provides an easy way to incorporate it and how others react to it. It will also add to continuity, when the palyers make characters for later campaigns who've joined that guild.
CONTINUED SUPPORT for the other classes offered in the Complete Series is also a big winner in my book; don't let those fall by the wayside! I love anything new that's published about my warlocks, and I'm sure a large percentage of people feel the same way about their pet classes from the series.
I just got it yesterday, and liked it a lot. While I felt it really scraped the bottom of the proverbial feat barrel, the new classes look interesting and I like the idea of substitute abilities for the old classes. Options, options, options - that's what 3E is about. In any case, I thought it was much better than the DMG II.
I'm about halfway through the book, and I'm very impressed so far.
I really like the new classes (although I'm worried that, between the Warmage and the Beguiler, the Sorcerer is now obselete). I really don't like the new, more verbose format for classes, though. If a class is so narrow that it can be described adequately using this format, then it's too narrow to be a base class, IMO. (On the other hand, I like the expanded format for PrCs, which should be quite narrow. Of course, that doesn't apply to this book.)
I like that the book doesn't have any PrCs!
I really like many of the alternative class features, although I won't be offering them as alternatives in my games - either all members of a class will use an alternative feature, or none will. I really dislike the Druid shapeshift stuff (more on this later), don't like the Warmage option (since that class needs to be narrow for the Sorcerer to be at all worthwhile), and felt that the Fighter options should just have been recast as feats.
The feats were excellent.
Spells are spells. I have plenty. I really dislike the polymorph changes, and don't use the errata in my games. Therefore, the spells in the polymorph subschool from this book will not be featuring in my games. Other than that, I don't mind these spells.
That's as far as I've got, although I have read through the appendix. Much of what's coming up sounds like things I won't use - I already know I don't use Teamwork Benefits, and the rest seems aimed at fairly new players. If this is right, then the material might be good, but it won't be for me. The chapter on rebuilding the character sounds like an unnecessarily complicated system to do something that the DM and player should be able to work out informally amongst themselves. Certainly, I dislike the concept of rebuilding quests - if you want to play a completely different character, why not just retire your existing character and introduce a new one?
The appendix seemed like something that is nice to have, but something I will be strongly encouraging my players not to use (or even read through), as it will lead to the generation of fairly cookie-cutter characters. It's fine if you need a character in a hurry, but otherwise...
Much of this post has been about the things I don't like about this book. However, it should be noted that I do actually really like the whole. It's one of the best books WotC have produced in a good long time (although 2006 seems to be a strong year for them so far), and much of the material will be seeing use in my games.
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I absolutely love this book, myself.
I, as the DM, have not fully read through the character concepts/backgrounds/ player advice sections yet, but I'm pleased that they are in there and I'm sure they will be of great benefit to both my new and experienced players.
I have to say that I am generally not a "feat freak," but it appears a great deal of thought when into their design, and at least half allow players to expand upon feat trees and themes from the Core book, many of them available only at 10th level or higher (addressing the issue that the PHB lacks strong feat choices for 11th+ characters).
Examples: A set of feats expanding upon Spring Attack, allowing the PC to essentially gain multiple attacks (albiet vs. multiple targets) in an iterative fashion.
A bevy of feats for the fighter class (beyond Greater Weapon Specialization) that make a "pure" fighter very palatable, especially as one focuses on a specific type of weapon (bludgeoning, slashing, piercing) and eventually gains true "Weapon Mastery" with a single weapon--this feat is for the 18th+ fighter and gives at least 4 potent benefits.
A wide array of feats based on Combat Reflexes.
Feats to allow for ranged weapon characters to handle large groups and for ranged rogues to gain sneak attack without invisibility.
Shield-focused feats for the defensive warrior.
Additional two-weapon fighting feats
And more.
The spells seems moderately to strongly original, especially the dual school spells (Conjuration + ____, where part fo the spell ignores SR and the rest does not).
The support (as others have said) for members of the Complete classes is most welcome and I find some of the variant features to be quite interesting- a method for rogues to aid their allies against constructs and undead by knocking them off-balance, clerics spontaneously casting from their domain, a hp threshold-based rage variant, the mount-less paladin, etc.
Lastly, the quick NPC creation guide is great for providing stat spreads for each covered class (including revised spreads for druids and monks), as well as a purchasing guide for their equipment, making it much easier to handle the "random NPC" encounter. Of course, these guidelines are also good tools for helping players apply stats and make purchases when making higher-level characters-- it was a real boon when I had 4 people making 5th level PCs a few days ago.
So yea, my take on the book is if you've been playing at high levels or just been playing for many years, take a look at this supplement. It is full of fresh ideas, that do not reek of munchkinism, and stylish fluff (nice artwork) to aid any gaming group.
This book is the holy freaking grail!
I remember one of my first posts on this board was a fistacuffs with Great Green God over whether D&D was genuinely a dramatic roleplaying setting or just dungeon-crawly square-hopping pseudo-wargaming. He mentioned that yeah but there's like maybe a half page written in the books on actual roleplaying whereas there's fat thick sections on combat. I just sighed heavily.
With this book I feel vindicated. The whole thing is fat with roleplaying drama. Half the things in this book are pure story value with no mechanics at all--they feel more like the Natures and Demeanors from the old (pre-blowup) World of Darkness. I love it. The feats and classes that are added bring real flavor with them and I really like a lot of the new ideas added. I hope the book sells like gangbusters, cause this is the direction I would love to see WoTC start heading in with the pedal to the floor!
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I was vacillating on either buying the PHB II or buying lunch for the next six or seven days, and I think Grimcleaver just sold me on the RPG book diet plan.
Think I'll go down to Borders this Saturday night and library it until they kick me out for freeloading. Which is never. Which is why they get so much of my money.
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I was vacillating on either buying the PHB II or buying lunch for the next six or seven days, and I think Grimcleaver just sold me on the RPG book diet plan.
Think I'll go down to Borders this Saturday night and library it until they kick me out for freeloading. Which is never. Which is why they get so much of my money.
I have only gotten to page 94(the beginning of spells) and I love it! It is all about adding flavour to your character. There is a new feat/combat option in there where you use your cloak in combat situations to hide attacks, deflect blows and such, that just screams of good ol' fashion swashbuckling.
This book is way better than the DMG 2 (minus Saltmarch, which is absolutely wonderful). I hope the rest of it is as good as the first 94 pages.FH
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I looked at that DMG II and saw this big Vegas casino-looking temple in the middle of Saltmarsh which from ancient U1 history was this little 16th century English fishing town in my mind. Ever seen the Scientology Temple in Clearwater, Florida? But maybe I'll look at the DMG II some more; don't know.
Feats is always good eatin', sezz oye. So I'm off this weekend to the Borders library.
Okay, I've had a chance to sit down and do a preliminary skim of the book. The things I liked the most about this book is the practical tips (such as using different colored dice depending on the damage type) as well as the larger emphasis on roleplaying (as opposed to "roll-playing"). The roleplaying emphasis was refreshing as well as very needed, especially for novice players. There's a special section for "Being A Good Player at the Table" - should be required reading for all newbie players!
I was hesitant at first at the crunch in this book - after all, how many more classes, feats and spells do you need? My hesitancy is gone though. Despite the plethora of crunch out there, the classes presented are intriguing, the feats managed to impress me and the spells have an interesting team theme throughout it (regroup, for example, teleports your allies to adjacent squares next to you). The section on rebuilding your character is very interesting and may alleviate the headaches caused when you choose a feat that perhaps didn't work the way you expected, or as an opportunity to redo poor or too many class selection.
For DMs, the Appendix is on "Quick PC and NPC Creation," something I know many of us have struggled with, especially with the demands on our time that we all have. It's pretty varied - it's not the same as building an NPC from scratch, but it'll do in a pinch.
They've managed to strike a balance in the book between content for new players and veterans alike. Some of the concepts may be old hat for long-time players/DMs, but it's presented in a refreshing way.
Also, the cover art warms my heart - that gem-eyed idol brings back memories. :-D
Both the DMG II and PHB II are invaluable assets to my personal gaming Toolbox - they both go hand-in-hand with each other.
Got the New PHB II yesterday from the husband, and I’m really digging it, I like the team working stuff, and feel that the Quick PC section is going to make my life as a DM so much easier. Rebuilding your character section is nice, (since it’s come up twice so far in my game- guidelines are nice). LOVE Affiliations, section going to be spending some time today and tomorrow writing up several of these for my GH game.
But Go questions about the new Polymorph Subschool. On pg 95 it says Target retains his own hit points. But Dragon Shape and Troll Shape List Temporary hit points, and as far as I ca tell those are the only Poly spells in the book. Guessing (please correct me if I’m wrong) but the idea is now each shape is it’s own spell?? And if so some guild lines on creating (blank) Shape spells would have been nice. If anyone has suggestions on how those guild lines should work would be glad to hear them.
Some excellent points in these reviews and I have little to add. I also think the "Good Player" section should be required reading for all players, vets and noobs alike. I remember not too long ago, busting out the illustration of gimble the bard in his rockstar mode to underscore a problem I was having with a player's constant need to engage me (the DM) even during other people's turns.
He looked at the picture and said "That's cool! That's me!"
I said "read the caption"
He said "Oh..."
I said "read the section"
a few minutes later he sheepishly looked up and said "I do that?"
I replied "you are doing it right now"
He has been much better at avoiding hogging the spotlight ever since.
I also like the section on party composition and non-traditional parties. The backgrounds are great, as are the personality traits. I feel like I have a similar problem as mentioned earlier in this thread, namely that my players need prodding to role play, and these allow even the most inexperienced role player to add a few masterful flourishes to his PC's persona.
The new core classes are allright (I have used some as NPC's already to nice effect), and the spells and feats new and interesting without being overpowered or redundant. I especially like the dual school spells, and have incorporated the concept into the weave of my current campaign.
All in all, I felt I got more out of the sections not dealing with game mechanics than any of the classes, feats, etc., but I can see how a lot of people would really appreciate those parts of the book too.
And you can't dispute that the cover is an homage to the way things were, and I for one appreciate that in the very least.