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Hey all.
I was thinking it might be useful to have a thread to discuss the roles of some characters that just don't seem clear. I'm wondering if some of them might have been more obvious in the magazines, but I don't want to read through all of that in addition to the hardcover to find any missing bits.
So, first of all, what about Adrick Garthun? I know he is minting coins for the Last Laugh, but what's the point? The coins aren't really discussed as far as I remember? Is this a tax evasion scheme?
He doesn't appear in the magazine, some npc were added in the hardcover.
I'll have to go back and reread the HC, but I believe they were using this to "launder" jewelry and other metallic loot; they took all the jewels out and sold them separately, then melted down the gold, copper and silver and minted counterfeit coins (which is much easier to do in a world where magic works, by the way...). The coins aren't exact copies, and probably aren't as pure metal as the official coins.
good idea to start this tread
He doesn't appear in the magazine, some npc were added in the hadcover.
I think he features in Lords of Oblivion, in House Rhiavadi. He made an appearance in both the mag and the HC, although the first mentions little more than his name.
On a related note:
I've been twisting my brain around what the individual members
of the cagewrights have been up to as the AP progresses.
On a related note:
I've been twisting my brain around what the individual members
of the cagewrights have been up to as the AP progresses.
My understanding is that the Cagewrights very much stay hidden and unnoticed throughout the AP until they attempt the ritual of planar conjunction. Throughout the AP, it constantly mentions how they work through proxies and removed from the threat of being discovered.
I've had no problem reconciling the fact that the PCs should have no real clues about the Cagewrights until it's almost too late - Thifirane Rhiavadi is their 'face', and only Embril Aloustinai is as public a figure.
If you were about to succeed at something you had been working towards for centuries, wouldn't you go out of your way to not draw attention to yourself it's done?
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The Cagewrights
Dyr'ryd - Leader of the Cagewrights
Apprentice - None
Embril Aloustinai - Head of Temple of Wee Jas
Apprentice - Ike Iverson
Freija Doorgan - Item Creation
Apprentice - Thirifrane
Gau Kleeoch - Chief of Security
Apprentice - None
Alurad Sorizan - Torturer & Interrogator
Apprentice - None
Ardeth Webb - Advisor & Historian
Apprentice - None
Kyan Winterstrike - Sniper & Explorer
Apprentice - None
Nulin Wiejeron - Assassin
Apprentice - Grehlia Cairnis
Shebeleth Regidin - Religious leader
Apprentice - Decrihni Baiul
Ssythar Nahazir - Caretaker of Shatterhorn
Apprentice - None
Thearynn Louvel - Expert on the Planes
Apprentice - Xarthyx
Viirdan Daraqor - Alchemist
Apprentice - None
Xokek - Scout
Apprentices
Ike Iverson - Caretaker of the Temple of Wee Jas in Embril Aloustinai's absence. He features prominently in Chapter 7 and likely dies there.
Thirifrane - Noble in Cauldron
Features prominently in Chapter 8 and likely dies there.
Grehlia Cairnis
One time leader of the Ebon Triad and creator of the soul cages
Decrihni Baiul
Doesn't even get mention in the official cast of characters. The PCS find him in Chapter 10 playing the organ before (hopefully) slaughtering him
Xarthyx
Also not mentioned in the cast of characters. Quasit found with Thearynn Louvel in Chapter 10. Trying to drive Thearynn Louvel insane (and succeeding).
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I agree that the Cagewrights don't do much.
My personal plan is to involve them earlier.
Nulin Wiejeron might have killed the clerics of Pelor. He could also be added to the assassination attempt in Chapter 7 (either of in place of or in addition to one of the assassins there). He might also target Maavu if he survives the mob scene in Chapter 5.
Kyan Winterstrike is supposed to be an explorer. I'll probably have her "out and about" and the PCs might run into her in the Amedio Jungle while seeking out a Spell Weaver ruin.
I don't really have suggestions for introducing the others earlier. I might reduce the total number of Cagewrights so the PCs have stronger feelings about each enemy from before they have a chance to strike against them.
I agree that the Cagewrights don't do much.
My personal plan is to involve them earlier.
Nulin Wiejeron might have killed the clerics of Pelor. He could also be added to the assassination attempt in Chapter 7 (either of in place of or in addition to one of the assassins there). He might also target Maavu if he survives the mob scene in Chapter 5.
Kyan Winterstrike is supposed to be an explorer. I'll probably have her "out and about" and the PCs might run into her in the Amedio Jungle while seeking out a Spell Weaver ruin.
I don't really have suggestions for introducing the others earlier. I might reduce the total number of Cagewrights so the PCs have stronger feelings about each enemy from before they have a chance to strike against them.
I agree with you and Chef here. There are just too many villian in the Cagewrights to do them all justice. So concentrating on a few 'leaders' seems the only plausable method of ensuring the players feel some sort of accomplishment when they final defeat the organisation the whole path has been leading to.
What I am thinking of attempting is to include some of the Cagewrights in earlier adventures. I can not recall if their needs to be all 13 present when the ritual occurs but if this is not the case then I will move 2 or three into Foundation of Flame and even earlier side treks to at least give them a presence.
Shebeleth (sp?) I have used the Fetors secret leader/mentor/master who in my campaign is also thearch bishop of my clerics order. Thus should provide a great surprize.
I would like to do similiar things this with many of the others so any suggestion here and ideas other have used in their games I would love to pinch ;)
Great thread
Delvesdeep
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After brainstorming a little last night and considering the list of characters, I've decided to redefine their characteristics.
Instead of using the mystical number 13, I'm focusing on 6 three times. Thus, I have 6 Cagewrights, 6 Apprentices, and 6 Allied groups. The number of the apprentice corresponds to the number of the master.
Cagewrights
1) Dyr'Ryd Leader
2) Freija Doorgan Magic Item Creation
3) Alurad Sorizan Torturer & Interogator
4) Shebeleth Regidin Cleric
5) Kyan Winterstrike Explorer
6) Viirdran Daraquor Tactician
Apprentices
1) Embril Aloustinai Leader of the Temple of Wee Jas
2) Thirifrane Public Face
3) Gau Kleeoch Oversees defenses
4) Decrinihni Baiul (may be mixed with Ardeth Webb, but the pipe organ bit is staying in)
5) Xokek Scout
6) Nulin Wiejeron Assassin
Allies
1) Vhalantru - Defacto ruler of Cauldron
2) Nabthatoran - Demon ruler of the Demonskar
3) Ssythar Nahaziz - Leader of Shatterhorn & yuan-ti
4) Ti'Rok & the FlameWarders
5) Ebon Triad
6) Necrocants
Vhalantru will also have some special allies including:
1) Last Laugh Thieves Guild (to a degree)
2) Zarn Kyuss (the Blue Duke)
The groups that will fight against them I thought should number 7 because of it's celestial connotation.
1) Temple of St. Cuthbert (Jenya & Alek)
2) Celeste
3) The Chisel (Maavu)
4) The Striders (Meerthan
5) Nidrama
6) Skylor Krewis (town guard)
7) The PCs
And that still leaves a host of neutral people, like Kaurophon (who helps the PCs), the Stormblades, the Temple of Kord, etc.
So, I'm still figuring out how to introduce some of them earlier, but I haven't picked out 3 or 4 additional adventures I'd like to pull from Dungeon as sidetreks.
This thread is great. I have also wanted to involve the Cagewrights right from the start as I feel the AP presents them as just a bunch of singular combats in the last few chapters.
I want the PCs to hate these guys but wihout giving too much away about their real motives. If I have them pop up every now and again, even if it's just in a conversational sense, the players have much more stake in their involvement.
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I have a question about a few people in Appendix 4 I don't recall seeing in the text.
(As an aside, I'm trying to determine any casters that might have the ability to craft magical items since my players are likely to seek such people out).
Kennock Brage - Male Human Sorc 10
Finch - Male Halfling Rogue 5/Sorc 6
Chorlyndyr - Male Human Sorc 4
Velasia - Cleric 7 (Wee Jas)
Zaenna Quaspin - Rogue 3/Cleric 7 (Vecna)
Where do these people appear?
Chorlynder is the is one of the NPCs in Drakthar's Way sent to keep an eye Drakthar. Don't know about the others.
Kennock Brage - Male Human Sorc 10
Finch - Male Halfling Rogue 5/Sorc 6
Chorlyndyr - Male Human Sorc 4
Velasia - Cleric 7 (Wee Jas)
Zaenna Quaspin - Rogue 3/Cleric 7 (Vecna)
Kennock Brage - Male Human Sorc 10
Finch - Male Halfling Rogue 5/Sorc 6
Chorlyndyr - Male Human Sorc 4
Velasia - Cleric 7 (Wee Jas)
Zaenna Quaspin - Rogue 3/Cleric 7 (Vecna)
Kennock,Zeenna and a half orc are assassins. Finch is part of last laugh. In our campaign he is Jil's boss. Velasia (she and her crew hunt and slaughter good outsiders) is a random encounter in the outer planes. Chorlyndyr was just released from a death sentence in our campaign thanks to the Blue Duke's appearance.
I have foreshadowed both Grehilla and Fish Weijohn thanks to Skavens notes. The Veiled Lady, thifirane, has also been foreshadowed twice. She was the Ebon Triads "contact in the city". They used her to get supplies. "Fish" checked on their progress and of course Skaven and the Ebon Triad consider Grehila a betrayer.
Many of the Ebon Triad are working in Carceri. Preparing their allies for the invasion and secretly checking on their lord and master, Adimarchus.
The PCs have already tangled or rather succumbed to Embril in our campaign. She is one PCs mother. Ike was the players cruel father.
So my players know enough of the cagewrights to kill anyone associated with them.
I think it is best if one finds a way to at least foreshadow or hint about the activities of the villains before the player characters confront the villain. For example, before the characters confront Adrick Garthun at House Rhiavadi in Lords of Oblivion, you can have the following:
Life's Bazaar: While investigating the disappearances of the orphans and others, the heroes hear rumors about coins with a jester being minted by the Last Laugh.
Flood Season: During the festivities of the Flood Festival, Adrick Garthun is spotted flashing his gold toothed grin and his bodyguards amongst other important personages in town. Any one with Knowledge (local) or Gather Information can learn that he is a wealthy merchant (perhaps exiled from his clan before making it big in human society) and that he imports luxury items and is a big rival of Maavu Arlintal.
Zenith Trajectory: When the heroes investigate the umber hulk attack, they learn that the owner of the warehouse where the attack started is Maavu Arlintal. Perhaps someone suggests to them Garthun is involved, since he is a big rival of Maavu.
When the heroes visit the Cusp of Sunrise, Garthun is amongst the rich and powerful socializing with Vhalantru and Taskerhill, again with his bodyguard nearby. He briefly engages the heroes in conversation and is perhaps slightly condescending (enough to annoy sensitive PCs without provoking a fight).
Lords of Oblivion: Perhaps among the tidbits that Fario has learned about the Last Laugh is that Garthun is the one behind the minting of the Last Laugh's coin, and that is among the guests gathered now at Lady Rhiavadi's estate. Then of course, when the heroes crash Rhiavadi's gathering of villains, the party finally gets to confront the Garthun.
In my campaign, I added an additional twist, as the minting of coins did not seem enough to rile up my players against the dwarf villain. So I made him out to be a conniving and challenging villain in the realm of business. When the heroes want to buy a piece of property to make into their headquarters, Garthun is there bidding up the price.
In my campaign, Garthun is also working with Vervil Ashmantle. Garthun will occasionally help finance a caravan with another merchant's or nobles' valuable crops or mine output to send to Sasserine, but will have his guard poison the food while the caravan is in the middle of no where to put the travelers to sleep. Then Vervil's men, tipped off about the caravan, kidnap the people for his slave trade and quietly sell them to slave ships in Sasserine. Garthun, for his part, takes advantage of the financial ruin caused to the noble or merchant by the loss of the caravan goods which mysteriously disappeared, foreclosing on his loan to take over the noble or merchant's plantation or mine.
One of my players wanted to be a noble, and I had his family plead with him to send them money from his adventuring gains to help pay off the mortgage to Garthun (at a point when he couldn't hope to pay it off) so they lost their property to Garthun. Hopefully that will make it more rewarding to take Garthun down.
I forgot to mention, in my campaign, Garthun foreclosed on Alek Tercival's parent's properties as well. When Jenya tells the player characters about Alek's history after the tax riot in Demonskar Legacy, she told them Alek would sell much of his adventuring loot to Tygot Myspas because he is trying to raise the funds to buy his ancestral lands back from Garthun.
Yea I forgot Garthun. IMC he is suspected by the PCs of setting up Maavu. I also have a PC noble whose parents have begged the charater for money to "maintain their lifestyle". I think that I will have Garthun foreclose on the property next session. Thanks :)
There's too many anonymous villians and too many villians in general for my taste at the end of this campaign. I think foreshaowing is critical, but I also think reducing the number of bad guys is critical as well.
Todd Vandeborean and Zachary Aslaxin have become evil in my campaign. I'll use them as the assasins at the start of Soul Pillars.
I'm removing all of the hired assasins at House Rhiavaldi and replacing them with a couple cagewrights. V becomes a cagewright as well. Lords of Obilivion will probably have the meeting at V's house, skipping Rhiavaldi.
I'll be combining Thirteen Cages and Shatterhorn and greatly reducing the number of villians. All of these villians wil be cagewrights whihch the players will know in advance due to research.
The Rhivaldi house IMC is a combination of the cathedral of blood (wee jas) and the leaders of the last laugh thives guild. the pl;ayers will have heard off or met in person almost all the npc's by the time they gather at Rhivaldi's house (the exeption is Mhad who is Khron bonesworn's mate). I will also include a beefed up Kazmojen, who had gotten away in the first adventure. I really cant wait.
I should state that it was DelvesDeep demonskar ball notes that led me to introducing many of the NPC's to the players. If you are running SCAP and havent made it to chapter three yet you should really check out DelvesDeep notes. i think a bunch of them are hosted on RPGenius.com or some such place.