After about 4-5 sessions so far, the game has finally entered the Malachite Fortress.
But that isn't the problem, just an idea of where we are.
The problem is that most of the group isn't having fun with the big dungeon crawl. I talked with them extensively after last session and we've determined that the majority of the group care more about the Roleplaying and story elements of the game, not the rules extensive side of the game.
I was wondering if there is any possible way to salvage the game to keep everyone interested.
Any way to make the rest of this adventure more Roleplay then ROLLplay. THere is a lot of combat in this campaign, which is where all the Rollplay is from.
I don't want to quit running this campaign, but I want to make sure everyone is having fun as well.
Any help will be appreciated.
I think the answer is to get them out of the dungeon. :)
Last Sunday I finished my 5th session and they confronted Kazmojen and finished the final battle in the Malachite Hold.
But as far as time not being spent in the dungeon, the entire first session was spent above ground, at St. Cuthberts then the Town Hall looking for Lord Valhantru, then the Orphanage, then Ghelve's Locks.
Out of the four remaining sessions they came up out of the place three or four times to get healing (at St. Cuthberts AND the Temple of Pelor) or rest of the night. Each time they had some roleplaying going on with Jenna or the town guard or even among themselves as they decided on a name for their group.
I think a really important idea is to make sure that each of your players has a link to an NPC in the campaign. That way the character has more invested in the overall story. Now that the battle with Kazmojen is over I anticipate that the entire next session this Sunday will actually be nothing but "roleplaying" versus "rollplaying". I'll be advancing each of their story lines with the NPCs I have paired each of them with and bringing them together with Lord Vhalantru who will be approving their adventuring charter.
SC has a lot of room for "roleplaying" I hope you don't give up on it before you get those oportunities. Maybe you need to have them run into something or someone down below that is not just out to kill them. Maybe the town guard or some escaped slaves that are trapped. That would give them an opportunity to roleplay versus rollplay.
Thanks for the responce. We've had almost the same amount of interaction as you have.
I have given them NPC's they know:
The Dwarven Fighter/Rogue who is also a weaponsmith knows the local smith in town;
The Elf Ranger knows Tygot, as he is looking for a friend of his and Tygot was supposedly the last to see him.
The Local Human FIghter knows Srgt Krewis.
The Elf Wizard is acquanted with Felian and Fario and knows of Meerthan. He is attempting to find them in town.
The Half-Drow fighter knows Shensen.
The Elf Warmage...I can't really remember without my notes near me. But she might have known Jenya.
The first session detailed them investigating at the Temple, the Orphanage, and Keygan's shop. THey also began to explore Jzadirune. They've gone up top once, when one player was down, and they were almost out of Potions. There is also no Cleric in the group. They took care of some shopping while up top, mostly paying to remove the Clumsyness curse from two of the characters.
So maybe I should probably introduce Fario and Felian then, to give some Roleplaying.
Anything to try and keep things fun for everyone?
Jazidrune is a *Massive* dungeon. It has more than 60 rooms, and most of those rooms have an encounter in it. (either a monster, a trap or a puzzle). That's about 50 encounters in all. After a while, that's bound to get a bit tedious, even for the most fanatical dungeon crawlers.
I would sugest making the dungeon as dynamic as possible. If the party clears out a room, the creatures in the nearby rooms are going to find out and respond to it. Some will flee, others will band together to defend their home. A few might negotiate with the party.
Jazidrune has a very distinct ecology. There's the monsters in the west and north of Jazidrune (such as the Choker, the Grell and the Ragamoffyn). You have the skulks and dark ones in the south-east of Jazidrune, and you have the hobgoblins in the elevator room. Just figure out how each of these groups will react to the party's presence in their part of the enclave.
Of course, bringing in the two striders may also cut down on the duration of your combat, which means you can have more encounters per session.
I'm sorry, I just reread your post. It seems my advice is a bit misplaced... you're allready past jazidrune.
The malachite hold is completely different from Jazidrune. The party should be able to clear the entire dungeon in a single session. Facing Kazmojen is the most interesting part of the adventure, so make sure you have plenty of time to run it well. If nescesary remove some of the encounters, such as the stone spike or the mass of chains.
I'm sorry, I just reread your post. It seems my advice is a bit misplaced... you're allready past jazidrune.
The malachite hold is completely different from Jazidrune. The party should be able to clear the entire dungeon in a single session. Facing Kazmojen is the most interesting part of the adventure, so make sure you have plenty of time to run it well. If nescesary remove some of the encounters, such as the stone spike or the mass of chains.
The opportunity to negotiate with Kazmojen is a very real possibility. Opportunities for roleplaying encounters exist in almost every dungeon in each chapter. Read way ahead, and set up the encounters to best challange and entertain your group.
1 - The fighter that knows Sgt Krewis should here the story of Triel before flood season, in my campaign he was romanticly envolved with her. The party may be able to redeem triel?
2 - Remember to play up the statue of Zeinith and the fact that Zeinth was the commander of the Malachite Fortress. Capturing him alive could envolve roleplaying. Also in Zeinith the party meets the Dragon-Father. An encounter with one of his off spring prior to his appearnace may be something to consider. It adds credence to his appearnce there, more than the later encounter in SotSP.
3 - I feel an encounter by Alek Tercevil prior to Demonskar is a good thing as well. In my game it was a simple passing encounter at the flood festivel / hero's feast in the parties honor. This helps set up another roleplaying enocunter at the end of the Demonskar dungeon.
Oh well just some ramblings.
The upcoming Flood Season is full of roleplaying opportunities. My group spent 4 full sessions doing nothing but roleplay, no combat at all.
After that though it's back to a dungeon. And then another dungeon.
SC has lots of roleplay POTENTIAL, but the adventures themselves are mostly dungeons. You might want to find ways to shorten the actual dungeon adventures so that you can get back to the roleplay that occurs between them.
This is a very interesting thread for me, because I just ran my first SCAP game. Naturally, it did include lots of RPing, with first Ruphus then his boss Jenya; the next morning the PCs visited with Gretchyn, the headmistress of the orphanage; lastly, they did a great job getting Keygan Ghelve to 'fess up.
After that, they explored a few areas in Jzadirune before we ran out of time. It was thinking about the dungeon since the game that I came up with some in-dungeon RP ideas I want to spring on them. In particular, since they seem to be heading that way, there is the dark stalker Yuathyb. Yuathyb has the Vanishing, so I'm going to play him as willing to provide the PCs with information in exchange for a cure. I'm curious to see if the characters will deal!
Soon, they'll need to exit, and I have their initial meeting with Alek Tercival planned, who basically will just introduce himself and use his Lay On Hands ability if they need it (which seems likely).
As for future stuff, thanks for the suggestions!
I don't know how side-treked you want the campaign to be, but I've played in a Shackled City campaign where my DM (Chairborne Ranger on these boards) ran a higher level version of "The Devil Box" between "Life's Bazaar" and "Flood Season."
I've not read "Drakthar's Way" yet, so I don't know what kind of dungeon crawling that entails, but I can attest that "The Devil Box" was a perfect diversion for us.
Wow, thanks for all of the helpful suggestions. These will all help a lot.
I think another problem we have is that we switch off campaigns every week. We do mine 1 week and then another player runs one the next week, and we alternate. In the case of the last session we had, it had been alomost a month since we last played mine so everyone forgot was going on, except they know they were looking for kids.
I don't mind alternating weeks, as it gives more time to work on the campaign outside of school work and having to go to work.
I just have to work on the roleplaying side of the game a little bit more. Although, I have to admit that is the area I am least experianced when running a game.
So, I am going to need to work on some RP encounters for the players, specically with their contacts in town, when they finish the adventure. Also thinking of having a little celebration at the town hall in their names. Congratulating them for their Heroism. There they get to meed the Lord Mayor, Tereson, Alek Tercival, Lord Vhalantru, and possibly other important people.
Thanks again. If there is any more help anyone can offer, I am all ears.
Oh I also forgot to mention that we've already had our 1st PC death. The Ranger, against everyone's objections, wondered ahead as they enter the Malachite Fortress. Pretty much, after 2 hits from the Stone Spike, 1 being a Critical Hit, he was paste on the floor.
And the way I understand it, he will be coming in as a...Fighter...sigh...
We understand though, that he is isn't the brightest bulb out there, and has a hard time understanding all of the complex abilities other classes gain. The Fighter is the best class for him.
So pretty much the Party is a group of 3 Fighters, a Fighter Rogue, a Wizard, and a Warmage.
I'm facing the same thing, running the game online. In a three hour session, it's unlikely we get through more than two or three rooms/encounters.
I'm hesitant to solve the PCs problems for them though, but at the same time, I don't want them bogged down in something that begins to look like a never-ending crawl, especially when I know what lies in wait for them, with some of the big crawls coming up in future chapters.
I'd love to hear some ideas about how to speed up the dungeon, without losing the main points of interest, or softening them up too much.
Those ideas already posted are great, but I can't force the PCs to use diplomacy with Kazmojen, or to flee from the animated chains, etc.
They've just struck a deal with Yuathyb, and killed the grell, losing one of their own in the process. Now armed with information about the location of Starbrow AND the door leading into the Malachite Hold, trhings should start ripping along.
I'm afraid of one thing though. There are enough hobgoblins below to turn the thing into a lengthy war of attrition, in the Malachite Hold; assuming they put the guards on alert, which is pretty likely with this group, and the obvious encounters that happen right up front i.e. The hobbie guyards on the elevator aren't going to stick around and wait to be killed by a powerful and hostile group (once the secret door to the elevator is opened) I can't see them doing anything other than flipping the switch, and getting down to warn the others about the problem. They might spend a round hurling javelins, but once they get a taste of some of the more powerful members in the group (the psion will likely melt one of them, which should cause a classic 'advance to the rear' reaction) they will flip the switch, and descend, putting the whole guard on notice, and forcing the members to either climb down, or wait for an attack group to come back up.
Even if it doesn't play out this way. Stealth is going to be lost on this group, and I hate to play the hobbie guards too smart, as it will really drag things out; BUT if the group doesn't come up with something on their own, I certainly dont plan on holding their hands through it.
Remember that the elevator descends slowly. That will be a great scene as the players decide whether to jump after the retreating hobs.
Yep, the fight in the Malachite Hold will be a big, huge, long battle. Given the speed you're playing at, I'm guessing you're typing your chat. The best way to speed things up would be to move to a voice chat system. I'm using Ventrilo and it's working well.
I don't know that I would speed up the Malachite Hold. The fun here is the big, massive running battle. The pulverizer and mimic could be dropped for later.
i have been playing SCAP for the last year almost. we are at the tenth chapter and we play almost every week. i clearly remember that my party was also struggling through jzadiruna and was kind of reliefed when they found out that the malachite fortress wasnt that as big as the earlier dungeon.
big dungeons just get boring... this is a plain fact, which i think the creators of the 3rd series of adventure path should keep in mind.
if they ever read this :)
One way to speed up the 'Hold' is to let them wander in and take on the Stone Spike, the 'Ogre' and then the animated chain so they can study Zenith's statue (even make a knowledge check here perhaps using your dwarf to recall some of his story) and then hit them.
They will have a lot of combat but it will be done very quickly. The hobgoblins can stream out of the main area conveniently leaving the way open and clear to the slave bazaar and attack them.
The other option is to use the 'guided method'. Fred make a listen check. You hear the soft murmuring of conversation behind the iron doors. I move closer to listen.
You get the idea - lead them to the main action and roleplaying/plot points.
But honestly, my players and I love to roleplay but in the end D&D is designed for combat. You are doing yourself an inservice if you try and take away the majority of it from your campaign. I agree that the first dungeon is too large and probably there are too many low level 'mooks' (read hillfolk and alleybashers here) in the Kopru Ruins (Flood Season) but all in all it is not too combat intense.
Revealing secrets and clues to the overall plot line helps to keep the players interested and on task. They then see the combat (rightly so) as a means to an end and if they have fun during the encounters this is a bonus.
Drakthars Way seems like a typical dungeon but having Drakthar doing hit and run tactics on the party changes this. One hint here - try not to let him die too early.
Flood Season - Play up the carnival, events, the ball and the rivalry with tyhe Stormblades. Reduce the mooks in the ruins and in the Lucky Monkey (players get bored when they fight the same type of monsters endlessly).
Zeniths - good as is but beware the Hydra in the pit of Seven Jaws. A little too tough for the average (or unlucky) party. Probably get rid of the first dragon too - there are too many dragons in this adventure for my liking.
The Demonskar Legacy is great the way it is.
Anyway just some ideas and advice if you choose to use it. Don't feel disheartened yet. The AP has just begun and probably the players grumbling has more to do with getting used to new characters and a new Dm than the campaign itself. Give them and yourself time. When flood season arroves they will be crying out for more rollplaying ;)
Delvesdeep