RttToEE advise please

[Ragnarock Raider]

Hello everyone,

I was reading the earlier thread about NPCs in the party and realized I have this very same dilema:
I am about to start a very small group of players in the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil module. There are only 3 players (but they begged for THAT module), and i'm a worried that that's not enough (without giving any spoilers away...anyone who's played it will know what i'm talking about).
I have already upped their starting level and given them better gear, but i was wondering what else anyone would advise (without making 3 more NPC characters in the party)!
Any advise would be welcome...interesting to see what peoples takes on this will be...thanks in advance...and once again sorry for almost hijacking a thread earlier!

Be safe all.

[Zherog]

I'm fairly sure my post is spoiler free - mostly because I'm old and can't remember details of the adventure. ;)

Talk to the players; inform them up front that the adventure has a chance to be a meat grinder, and they might lose characters. They shouldn't get too attached to any given character. Trust me when I say this - there's plenty of places within the adventure to introduce a new PC. :)

Make healing magic a little more available compared to what you do normally. It can be fairly easily justified in game, too. As a cult dedicated to an evil god, they can't spontaneously cast healing spells - so they need to get them from elsewhere. Extra potions are good; you could also consider dropping a wand of cure light wounds on most of the clerics.

Encourage the players to use stealth and hit-and-run tactics. My group that went through was 7 PCs (including cohorts from the Leadership feat), and they had a tough time with a frontal assualt. A group of 3 might find it suicidal, especially once you reach the Crater Ridge Mines.

Provide them a safehouse in that little town outside the Crater Ridge Mine (I can't recall the name of it). Make an NPC in that town who is sympathetic to their cause, but won't adventure with them. This gives them a place to rest, heal, and so on.

Don't overdo the extra gear thing too much; they're going to get a metric ton of stuff from the adventure - stuff they'll either use, or convert to cash for buying all the cool toys they want. Also remember that as a group of 3 PCs, they're going to level a bit faster than the adventure expects; that's OK - eventually, that sort of thing has a way of levelling off and balancing out.

There's a few things, anyway.

[VedicCold]

For groups smaller than the usual four, my preference is for using above-average ability score generation methods. Considering the module (indeed, a meat-grinder at times), I would even recommend the Gestalt variant and/or Action Points from Unearthed Arcana if you have access to it. Otherwise, I think you're on the right track with the level increase. The Zherog makes some very good suggestions as well. Also, I'm considering doing this one for a pair of players myself, so I'd love to hear updates about the game and how it's going, what adjustments you made, etc. Thanks, and good gaming!

[Sebastian]

The tips above are good, particularly about healing magic being readily available.

I've given small groups a +1 ECL race/ability before to help smooth things out also.

The biggest challenge for smaller groups is that things snowball really quickly when one player goes down. In a party of 4, you lose 25% of your strength when a character is taken out of a fight (whether held, ko, or worse). In a party of 3, you lose 33% of your strength. Watch out for effects that remove a party member from the battle because they can quickly decimate the group.

[Locke1520]

Action Points are an outstanding idea (I use both the Eberron rules as well as the Unearthed Arcana rules-which gives players a couple of extra options as to what action points can do). Also, you might think about the Reserve Point option from Unearthed Arcana. It increases the power level of the PCs over the long haul but does little to help on single encounters.

[Ultradan]

I would try just running the normal game. As stated above, since there are only three players, their characters will level up more quickly.

Tell them that the adventure was made for four players, but you'll run it with only the three of them... You'd be surprised how some players adapt well to overwhelming odds.

Ultradan

[Tatterdemalion]

Make one NPC, no more -- minimal work and you fill in a (probably big) gap.

I can't envision a party without all the basic roles filled being successful (killer/Ftr, sneak/Rog, healer/Clr, artillery/Wiz). What role(s) does your party lack?

Jack

[Ragnarock Raider]

First off...thank you all for the input and great advise. I think I'll use a combination of most of what was suggested.
Secondly IF there is enough interest I can start a campaign log (or better yet, get one of the Players to do it for xp) in the relevant section. It will be slow though, as we game once a week and alternate DMing (so in essence this mod will run once every 2 weeks).
Lastly this is what the players are playing:
1) Human Fighter 2/Cleric(Kord) 3
2) Dwarf Rogue 5
3) Human Wizard 5
Here are the modification I am using:
I bumped them to level 5 (instead of the module's level 4), gave them above average stats (using a modified point buy system), will equip them with slightly more gear than their level should allow (incorporating mostly Healing stuff, because with a 3 cleric as their only healer they will certainly need it). And they all know the brutal reputation of the module (although none has ever seen it...and you should have seen their reaction when they saw it in my collection...sigh, its days like THAT which make this hobby what it is!!), and expect many deaths (in fact everyone has TWO backup characters ready LOL...but I think I just scared them there).
The MAIN problem I see though is that despite our talks about combat not being the ONLY option...this group just likes to hack! Its the aspect of the game they enjoy the most. While it may not be MY cup of tea, as a DM my only goal is to ensure they have fun. If its hacking they want...hacking is what they'll get LOL!
Thanks for all the support out there, and wish us luck...first session is tonight (and I'm excited...as my wife would say...what a geek! LMAO!)!!
Be safe all.

[Thanis Kartaleon]

I recommend a support class. The bard is the most obvious choice, but the marshal (Miniature's Handbook) works very well also. Another good support class is the artificer (Eberron Campaign Setting).

Alternatively, the party can't go wrong with another arcane spellcaster or rogue. I would not suggest a cleric or fighter, as such an NPC, if single-classed, could easily outshine the multiclass character in one of their areas of expertise.

Since your players want nothing more than hack 'n slash, I suggest googling "Ted the Enabler" on the WotC forums. Actually, I'll look that up now...

[Thanis Kartaleon]

Here it is...

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=175652

Enjoy.

[Amaril]

Ragnarock Raider wrote:

First off...thank you all for the input and great advise. I think I'll use a combination of most of what was suggested.

Secondly IF there is enough interest I can start a campaign log (or better yet, get one of the Players to do it for xp) in the relevant section. It will be slow though, as we game once a week and alternate DMing (so in essence this mod will run once every 2 weeks).
Lastly this is what the players are playing:
1) Human Fighter 2/Cleric(Kord) 3
2) Dwarf Rogue 5
3) Human Wizard 5
Here are the modification I am using:
I bumped them to level 5 (instead of the module's level 4), gave them above average stats (using a modified point buy system), will equip them with slightly more gear than their level should allow (incorporating mostly Healing stuff, because with a 3 cleric as their only healer they will certainly need it). And they all know the brutal reputation of the module (although none has ever seen it...and you should have seen their reaction when they saw it in my collection...sigh, its days like THAT which make this hobby what it is!!), and expect many deaths (in fact everyone has TWO backup characters ready LOL...but I think I just scared them there).
The MAIN problem I see though is that despite our talks about combat not being the ONLY option...this group just likes to hack! Its the aspect of the game they enjoy the most. While it may not be MY cup of tea, as a DM my only goal is to ensure they have fun. If its hacking they want...hacking is what they'll get LOL!
Thanks for all the support out there, and wish us luck...first session is tonight (and I'm excited...as my wife would say...what a geek! LMAO!)!!
Be safe all.

The Dwarf Rogue will definitely see action beyond just hack. The Crater Ridge Mines are littered with Search DCs as well as strong opportunities for the player to role play his race.

In all honesty, the increased ability scores and action points alone will suffice. Anything beyond that is overkill. My players (a party of 6) went through the encounters like a hot knife through butter with a 32 point buy for ability scores and the use of action points (I even made the encounters higher challenges). Also be sure to play the creatures as intelligent combatants. Don't just have them stand in the center of everyone and get slaughtered.

For more information regarding this adventure (campaign, really), check out Monte Cook's forums. There are dozens of DMs who have run or are running the module.

http://p222.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm17

If you want some file resources, including a community made 3.5 update/errata/FAQ document, check out the RttToEE file archive.

http://www.zansforcans.net/archive/

[Ragnarock Raider]

Thanks guys for the advise and especially for the links....i'll definetly be using them!

We had the first session last night and it went relatively well...only what would have been one character death (but the player opted to use a fate point, so technically no deaths)...yay!

I emailed the campaign log and xp tally to everyone today, and am just waiting to hear back from the group...i can only hope they enjoyed it as much as i did.

Once again thanks all, and be safe.