Hi all,
I have nearly finsihed the WC with my group and we are due to start TFoE this weekend. I have told them about Dragon Chess being a big part of the gambling scene within Diamond Lake and i have a feeling some might want to play for cash..... I have in response told them, they may take 'Dragon Chess Playing' as a skill, ie it would work like all other skills and they would need to make a better check than their opponent to win. I would like to know if anyone else has done this, or any thoughts on this being a good idea or not??
Thanks
DM Shane
I think limiting it to one game would be too restrictive. Perhaps gaming as a skill ? This could only apply to games not purely based on chance and luck, of course (if you play them the way they are intended, anyway :-) " Is this a game of chance?" " Not the way I´m playing it.")
Gaming would only apply to games having an element of strategy, if you play poker (without cheating) you need bluff more than strategy.
Stefan
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We made it a skill in our AoW campaign with intelligence as the relevant ability. The differences (& difficulites) between mastering chess & most of games of chance are arguable, but after watching the World Series of Poker, it seems that chess is a much more difficult game to master and merits being a single skill, unlike poker which, as already pointed out, depends on charisma as much as intellect.
My PCs actually met at the monthly dchess tournament. Not much you can do to actually represent the game - I just let the NPCs use their level as a bonus (represents experience) and let the PCs use their INT bonus in a d20 rolloff. Not very exciting, but a good place to meet NPCs.
I think its suggested that you use Profession (gambler) as the skill of choice. I'm dying for someone to come up with a board and rules for this game, maybe using D&D minis as the pieces.
Wraith428
I think its suggested that you use Profession (gambler) as the skill of choice. I'm dying for someone to come up with a board and rules for this game, maybe using D&D minis as the pieces.
Wraith428
In which issue is Dragonchess described? I haven't been following the AoW path (been too busy with work to stop by the FLGS and purchase the last year's worth of mags) but it's sparking my curiousity.
The rules for Dragon Chess can be found here...
http://www.chessvariants.org/3d.dir/dragonchess.html
That's an awesome site. Much fun to be had for chess junkies like myself.
Also, if you're looking for another chess variant, there's one called "Papal Chess". The idea was to have a stationary piece in the center of the chess board and your goal is to surround said "Pope" with your pieces. Replace "Pope" with whatever powerful political figure in your game, especially one that's not well liked, and insta-flavah to your campaign. It's Capture the Flag, really. :-D
This is an actual historical chess variant that was outlawed by the Church - punishment was death (I'm not making this up...)
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Hi Everyone,
I gave the following to one of my players who was interested in Dragonchess. It's an augmentation of the rules given in Dungeon 124. Considering that it is such a game of skill, it would seem strange that a novice could actually expect to beat a master occasionally. I've just tightened a few things up so that the game relies more on skill than luck. In addition, since it is played by wizards, it seems strange that all the synergy bonuses are in cross class skills for them. As such, I've expanded the system of bonuses.
***Dragonchess
Dragonchess is a game popular amongst wizards and the elite where opponents match wits orchestrating the two sides of 42 pieces over three 96-square (12x8) boards representing the Sky, the Earth, and the Underworld. Pieces include the griffon, the sylph, Oliphant, basilisk, hero, thief, and paladin amongst others. Scholars claim the game is a metaphor for the celestial struggles of fundamental law, chaos, good, and evil. While this may be the case in the heady world of the scholarly elite, in Diamond Lake, it’s principally another justification for gambling.
A game of Dragonchess takes a full hour to play (longer for "big" games) and is played conversationally. Many casual players prefer the discussions to the game and play accordingly. Others dedicate considerable passion toward memorizing strategies and perfecting surprise traps and feints. It is said that you can learn more about a person in an hour of Dragonchess than you could spending a year otherwise - the game perfectly reflects a player’s personality. To resolve a game of Dragonchess, one must gain control of all three boards - Earth, Sky and Underworld. However, the Underworld board is pivotal in achieving this dominance being of greater importance than the Sky board which in turn is greater in influence than the Earth board.
The base skill for Dragonchess is profession (gambler) with skill checks based on the player’s profession [gambler] modifier. If the player has no ranks in profession gambler, they can still play but are considered to have a +0 check (modified by their wisdom bonus/penalty) with a possible -2 circumstance penalty if they are not basically conversant with the rules - for example if it is their first game or they have not seen a few games being played.
However this base check may be modified by the following circumstances:
+2 bonus for 5 or more ranks in bluff
+2 bonus for 5 or more ranks in diplomacy
+2 bonus for 5 or more ranks in intimidate
+2 bonus for 5 or more ranks in sense motive
+2 bonus for 5 or more ranks in concentration (the ability to concentrate is pivotal whilst dealing with the varying distractions that surround the game)
+2 bonus for 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) (those with an understanding of magical and mysterious things can apply this knowledge to the game of Dragonchess in subtle ways)
+2 bonus for masterwork playing pieces (Masterwork pieces are usually individualised making it easier for that player to remember the myriad of special skills of each individual piece)
+2 bonus if the player has levels in wizard (the flow of the game is similar to that of preparing to cast arcane spells making all wizards naturally adept at the game)
+2 bonus if the player has control of the Earth board
+4 bonus if the player has control of the Sky board
+6 bonus of the player has control of the Underworld board.
A player with control of the Earth board may add their intelligence modifier to their skill check as a circumstance bonus
A player with control of the Air board may add their wisdom modifier to their skill check as a circumstance bonus
A player with control of the Underworld board may add their charisma modifier to their skill check as a circumstance bonus
Note that it is not essential for a player to include a bonus upon a skill check. In fact, in casual or friendly games, it is normally considered impolite to use skills such as bluff and intimidate. For some though, not using particular bonuses is a key element of sharking an opponent. Any sharking attempt can be discovered by an opponent using the usual bluff/sense motive opposed roll. In a serious game, sharking is considered poor form (particularly if spectators have also placed wagers upon the outcome).
The first opposed checks are made to decide which player gains control of the Earth (starting) board. Opposed rolls are made until a player wins two checks in a row. This player gains control of the Earth board. The player then chooses the next board to play for (Sky or Underworld). Again checks are made until a player succeeds twice in a row.
This player then chooses another board to play for and likewise, opposed rolls are made until a player has succeeded twice in a row.
This continues until a player controls all three boards and is thus the winner.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
Dragonchess
Hey Herremann, just wanted to let you know that I used your rules at my session tonight and it was a hit! Thanks! Very cool rules. I think my players are all going to invest in dragonchess pieces ASAP.
TK
In fact, in casual or friendly games, it is normally considered impolite to use skills such as bluff and intimidate.
Hm... on the surface this seems accurate. However, I would point out that bluff and intimidate need not be solely verbal, or even physical. To use an example in actual chess, a player can feint, appear to sacrifice a good piece while really setting your foe up for a checkmate in six turns.
Intimidate is similar. By forcing your opponents piece in between the king and your queen, he starts thinking irrationally. "I've got to take out the queen. That'll make everything OK. This is an example of Intimidate.So I'd just exclude that rule. but otherwise, it does look very good.
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In fact, in casual or friendly games, it is normally considered impolite to use skills such as bluff and intimidate.Hm... on the surface this seems accurate. However, I would point out that bluff and intimidate need not be solely verbal, or even physical. To use an example in actual chess, a player can feint, appear to sacrifice a good piece while really setting your foe up for a checkmate in six turns.
Intimidate is similar. By forcing your opponents piece in between the king and your queen, he starts thinking irrationally. "I've got to take out the queen. That'll make everything OK. This is an example of Intimidate.So I'd just exclude that rule. but otherwise, it does look very good.
Thanks for that, I'm glad your players enjoyed. :)
I have one player who has maxed out his profession (gambler) skill and had the annual Greyhawk Dragonchess Tournament the week before the Champions Games (he came third against some very tough opposition).
However, you know all the figurines throughout the different tombs, I've added in a few extra and he is trying to collect the "set". I've made these out to be the "original" dragonchess set, or what all other sets have been based upon. He is looking to have this complete by the tournament next year for a further bonus.
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As for Bluff and Intimidate, I can see where you are coming from in terms of a chess analogy - although I think intelligence and wisdom are suitable attributes to represent aggressive styles of technical play. My aim behind these skills however is based upon the "social" aspect of the Dragonchess game. Because Money, Pride and even Status are on the line when two serious competitors meet, I thought the social skills of Bluff and Intimidate would come into play in a strange sort of way. In this way, it gives charismatic types a possible edge over the purely "intellectual-ivory tower" style players.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
I think that, if you play chess, you will find that if you don't try to trick the player, or scare them, they simply plow right through the defenses.
Although I do see your point. In a "friendly" game of dragonchess, you would not bring the full force of your bluffing and intimidating skills to bear. In a serious game of dragonchess, I could see a cunning rogue say, "Oh no, actually you can't move there," then citing an obscure "rule" which throws off the other player.
Oh yes, I believe you forgot the part about bards. How should their bardic knowledge be incorporated?
Dragonchess became a fun, interesting diversion in our game, but in truth, I would have liked to flesh it out a bit more. Thanks to Herremann the Wise for the mods. In the next AP, if dragonchess is still in vogue, I'll try to apply it.
Though it might have been more appropriate to use Profession (gambler), I opted to substitute it for a "Knowledge (gaming)" skill--appearing on Brd/Rog/Wzd class lists (which worked out nicely for our party of arcanists).