Ever found a rule, ability, or spell or any combination of these that could be really powerful out of context of what the spell could be for?
If so please post here.
For example huge amounts of cash can be obtained from using summon monster IV, Summon a lantern archon and have it use it's continual flame spell like ability on as many torches as possible, no cost whatsoever and each everburning torch generates 55 gold selling at half price
Also I realize that as a DM i would never allow something like this but I constantly comb through spells, magic items, and abilities looking for obscure and powerful combos to use on my players, and (when I'm not DM'ing) for my characters to use. I just love it when I find oversights like this one.
For example huge amounts of cash can be obtained from using summon monster IV, Summon a lantern archon and have it use it's continual flame spell like ability on as many torches as possible, no cost whatsoever and each everburning torch generates 55 gold selling at half price
You could make even more money selling your services.
A 7th level caster can charge 280 GP for a 4th level spell.http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spellcastingAndSer vices
I guess because the lantern archon lasts 7 rounds, you'd make 385 GP from the everburning torches. It's a little more cash, but you might have to convince the lantern archon (or more precisely, the DM) to do it for you.
Supply and demand would drive prices down very quickly. How many NPC's in any town can afford or would want to pay that much money? Paying attention to and knowing the basics of economics would take care of that really quickly.
Magic items, scrolls and spells are a luxury niche market which 99.9% of the population won't buy into because they can't afford it. Once you've sold your two continual flame torches to the two guys in town who can afford them and want them, you're stuck trying to unload 45 torches in liquidation sales.
Not sure i agree with the MORE money aspect. for instance Summon monster VI summon 1d4+1 lantern archons each pumping out a torch per round min of 11 rounds so thats 11 torches per archon 22 to 55 torches per casting ..... so thats 1210, to 3025 gold a spell to outfit a fairly good sized town with streetlamps
On second thought, I'm settin' up shop.
Rob's everburning torches.
My costs: Summon Monster IV = 280 GP
My sales: 7 everburning torches x 110 GP = 770 GP
Farewell2Kings is right, though. You can only do it once a month or something, and only in a big town.
Still a good living for a merchant.
if you allowed the use of this spell in this fashion in the first place you probably wouldn't be the first spellcaster to try, with supply and demand the campain world itself would be flooded with everburning torches and their worth would be nill,
all valid points though, apllying some logic keeps the spell from amassing a fortune but it still remains a spell that generates money. In a metropolis perhaps a good chunk.
Wether it creates 100 or 10,000 i would still never allow a spell to be used to get free magic items. That said does anyone else have discovered loopholes to discuss.
I don't know, I think this is where Role playing comes into play. Either the archons are going to start refusing your requests, or perhaps you might even attract the attention of a more powerful being associated with the archons that shows up and says, "you are tying up my servants that are made available to fight the agents of evil in your world for what?"
Heck, a non-lethal curse and a ban from being able to summon said type of creature may not be entirely unreasonable in this manner.
Would the torches remain everburning after the summon monster spell ran out?
As Sexi Golem pointed out, if the DM even let you do this, you're not the first person to try, so it would be a moot point. You'd have to go to the trouble of controlling markets like diamond dealers do, and all over long-lasting torches? Not worth it. Sexi Golem already pointed that out.
Good insights, F2K, although in my campaigns (I'm Sexi Golem's DM), I have a bit more wealth floating around in the general population than the stereotypical campaign.
All of that's moot, however, since Sexi Golem's real interest here was to see if there were any funny loopholes in the RAW that other people had found.
BTW, the continual flame wouldn't fade with the summons, since spells keep their duration no matter what happened to the caster, and the achons couldn't refuse him- it's not a calling spell, it's summoning. Although I'm not above using the curse on him... >:)
Loopholes… Hmmm. I’m not sure these are loopholes exactly but I thought they were clever. Most of these assume you’re playing a Wizard.
Telekinesis: Forget fireballs and lightning bolts. Get yourself a big iron ball as heavy as you can lift with the telekinesis spell (25lbs per level). Then cast shrink item and permanency on it so you can carry the thing around (with permanency you can shrink and grow the thing ad nauseum). Then cast greater magic weapon on it. Let’s say you’re a 9th level wizard. You can lift a 225lb iron ball, that’s 9d6 damage. You have to roll an attack to hit with it but you get to use your intelligence modifier (lets say its at least +4) and its magic (9th level greater magic weapon = +2) so probably looking at a +10 bonus which is not too shabby. Why all the trouble? No Spell Resistance and 9d6 damage! Now you’ve got a weapon against those pesky golems and elementals and such.
Bestow Curse: This spell is permanent, can’t be removed with dispel magic and forces a save vs. a fighters worst save bonus. If your DM is open to the line in the spell description that states “You may also invent your own curse, but it should be no more powerful than those described above”; you should be cook’in with gas. Personally I like “Shrinking” curses.
This is a kind of smoke and mirrors trick: First of all you’ll need to find yourself a host body for a magic jar spell. I’ve developed ways of doing this so that the party remains unaware of my actions (pesky do gooders). An ideal method is through the use of a “Shrinking” curse; although Baleful Polymorph could work too. Get yourself something fairly tough hit point wise (trolls and giants are nice but take what you can get). When you’re ready (i.e. the other players aren’t in a position to complain about necromantic evil ways) do the following. Use a Charm Monster Spell on your captive to get it good and compliant. Change its shape to match your own. This is the loophole; I used a Bestow Curse. When you weigh the pro’s and cons the Curse isn’t really any more powerful than the penalties listed under the spell but it acts like a permanent polymorph; hence, the loophole. Clear this with your DM ahead of time. Mine was cool with it (he figures that anything I can do NPC’s can do back – caveat emptor). Now, Curse yourself with a shrink curse and get yourself into a little cage you hang on your familiar’s collar. You are now a charm bracelet. If you’re high enough level a Statue Spell is good about now. Lastly, use Magic Jar to possess your charmed doppelganger. Now you have an expendable adventuring body. Follow around with your familiar to stay within range of the Magic Jar spell in case some crafty enemy hits you with a successful Dispel Magic but keep out of harm’s way (say, the radius of a fireball spell).
I’ll leave it there for now.
Cheers,
C.
Is it a loophole if you have to rely on your DM's approval?
Good call on the Telekinesis. I once used the spell against some giants as a retaliation for throwing stones at us. I threw 'em right back! Heh.
Is it a loophole if you have to rely on your DM's approval?
Well, its a loophole in the sense that you can do with it what no other spell allows. In the change to 3.5 polymorph other was changed to baleful polymorph which only allows transmutations into harmless animals. The use of curse in the way I suggest doesn't exactly render the subject harmless but it does allow a shape change that doesn't currently exist anywhere else.
Cheers,
C.