I tried to submit this once and it disappeared, so if this ends up being a duplicate - Paizo housekeeping is welcome to delete it.
Anyway, I'm sure this topic has come up before so I apologize for the repost but the issue of intoxication just reared its head in my campaign. I looked through the PHB & DMG for the various editions without success. Can someone clue me in to the game mechanics for drinking? What effect does one non-magical alcoholic beverage have on a character - what about two..six...a dozen? What are the chances for addiction? I bought the recent Dragon magazine specifically for its advertised article on drinking and D&D only to be vastly disappointed. If there are no official rules to adjudicate this issue (and IMO, there should be), I'd be just as willing to accept personal techniques fellow DMs might have developed.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Remember, fellow adventurers... Don't drink and RIDE.
Ultradan
Can someone clue me in to the game mechanics for drinking? What effect does one non-magical alcoholic beverage have on a character - what about two..six...a dozen?
Page 32 of the Arms and Equipment Guide addresses this issue.
Basically(almost word for word), every time a character consumes an entire alcoholic beverage (glass of wine, tankard of ale, jigger of any spirit), make a fortitude save at no penalty, with the DC determined by the type of alcohol (Common wine-DC 11, Dwarven ale-DC 13, dangerously strong spirits-DC 15; etc.).
The 1st drink an hour imposes no penalty on the fortitude save (you're trying not to get drunk). The second drink consumed imposes a -1 penalty, the 3rd, -2, the 4th, -4, and so on.
If you fail a save, you take 1d2 points of temporary wisdom and dexterity damage. A character who reaches 0 wisdom passes out. A character who reaches 0 dexterity collapses into a drunken wreck but remains in a blurry state of consciousness.
If both scores reach 0, the character could suffer the effects of alcohol poisoning. This requires a fortitude save with the DC for the type of beverage consumed. On a failure, the character takes 1 point of temporary Constition damage every 10 minutes until death occurs, unless you, well, puke. Either that, or have a kind soul cast neutralize poison (though the sage says this doesn't help with the hangover).
Hope it helps,
LG
What I think most people don't realize is that during the dark ages the beer was weaker. Everyone, child and priest included, had to drink beer. And that most beer should be flat. Beer was cheap and about the only drink available (water was usually unhealthy, milk and fruit juices were seasonal...). Also beer would be considered unspecial at least the normal stuff.
I believe ENWorld published some good drinking rules in their PDF "Tournaments, Fairs, and Taverns". Don't have it at work right now, though.
What I think most people don't realize is that during the dark ages the beer was weaker. Everyone, child and priest included, had to drink beer. And that most beer should be flat. Beer was cheap and about the only drink available (water was usually unhealthy, milk and fruit juices were seasonal...). Also beer would be considered unspecial at least the normal stuff.
I usually just run with Fortitude saves.
Being a homebrewer myself, here's what I gotsta add about drinking and brews and such:
Beer was not necessarily weaker - length of fermentation has a lot to do with how strong a beer is and how the fermentable/unfermentable sugars break down. Beer was drunk more often than water because water was unsafe - the alcohol levels in the brew usually killed off most bacteria. Beer was seasonal as well - beers styles that were brewed in winter are QUITE different that summer beers. (FYI, most popular beers today are lagers or pilsners - fermented at a cooler temperature). Fermentation was done by wild yeasts - not a safe option these days. Wild yeast fermentation results varied, but many brewers would be able to re-culture yeasts from the leftovers from previous batches (yeasts also have an impact on how a beer tastes).
Hops are the preservatives in beer, but hops are relatively new. Before that, a variety of herbs were used to preserve beer for long trips. In England, people refused to drink the European mainland's hopped beer, preferring their unhopped ales. (In an ironic twist, British troops shipped IPA - India Pale Ale - with an insane amount of hops in order to survive shipment to India).
A lot of factors would make a beer special, just like today. If you were going to make a special beer for your campaign world, think about if there are any special holidays or events. Here's a quick breakdown on fermentation times (these are modern time frames, FYI):
Beer - (barley malt, water, hops, yeast) - 3 weeks
Fancy Beer - (same as beer, but with more ingredients added) - 3-6 weeks
Cordials - (hard liquors combined with herbs and/or fruits) - 1-2 months
Wine - (fruit and/or herbs, yeast) - 6 months to a year
Mead - (honey and yeast) - 6 months to a year
That's just the basics, but hopefully it fuels someone's imagination. :-D
Yeah . . . good old Arms & Equipment Guide drinking rules . . . my player's cleric was the undiputed champion after drinking both the dwarf and the half ogre under the table, with the only price being that his wisdom was so low that he couldn't cast clerical spells.
Alas, this all ended when the barbarian came into the group. It was a good run while it lasted.
Thanks everybody! And Lillith, your post was particularly interesting - thanks for sharing your unique perspective. Now does anyone want to put a guess on the DC to avoid addiction (alcoholism)?
Thanks everybody! And Lillith, your post was particularly interesting - thanks for sharing your unique perspective. Now does anyone want to put a guess on the DC to avoid addiction (alcoholism)?
If you've got the Book of Vile Darkness or the FR supplement Lords of Darkness, they each have rules for addiciton to drugs (a little fuzzy about Lords of Darkness, certain on BoVD). Just pick whatever addiction level seems most appropriate to you for whatever kinds of ale/spirits you have in mind and you're in business. Can't be more specific about the mechanics... I think my supervisor would give me funny looks if I carried around my BoVD at work with me. I'm sure you can find a summary of the rules online somewhere.
Thanks everybody! And Lillith, your post was particularly interesting - thanks for sharing your unique perspective. Now does anyone want to put a guess on the DC to avoid addiction (alcoholism)?
I would have to say it would vary on the type of alcohol and ingredients in said alcohol. Here's my two copper (following my format from above):
Beer - DC 5
Fancy Beer - DC 6
Cordials - DC 6
Wine - DC 5
Mead - DC 6
Hard Liquor - DC 7
(All Fortitude saves). I would add a +1 modifier for every "Exotic" ingredient, maybe a +2 if said ingredient was in itself addictive.
I would start out low, then add circumstance modifiers depending on the occasion. Three failed rolls in a row could indicate the first level of addiction, six for the next, nine, twelve, etc. Alcoholism is a very complex addiction and there's a lot of factors that go into it (just beyond the drinking of the alcohol).
The way it was handled in Rifts (from Palladium) was that if you were an alcoholic and don't get your drink, you get a penalty on all your saves, skill, attack and damage rolls. Here would be my suggestion
Minor - -1 penalty
Moderate - -2 penalty
Major - -3 penalty
Chronic - -4 penalty
I think the higher level addiction you are, there might be long term or permanent penalties, such as Constitution damage (representing the break down of the liver to do its job). Recovery would be another case entirely.
(And on a side note, for the love of everything that's good, those that drink, please watch your drinking. I had an uncle die recently because of alcoholism. It's not pretty.)
Lilith,
Thanks for the addiction hints - didn't want to have to buy the whole BoVD just for one or two pesky questions.
On your personal note ... I hear ya! My Dad suffers from alcoholism and I know what a painful condition it is for everyone involved. In the fantasy world, we try to keep its darker aspects downplayed and view it a bit more light-heartedly.
Oh, something I forgot to add in my "history lesson" post:
Scotch whiskey is made from scotch ale.
Monasteries often traded their beer for goods - many great beers today are made in the tradition of those monasteries. (A pope okayed this - being an Italian pope {at that time} and used to wine, he declared that anyone drinking such a bitter concoction was surely seeking penance.)
...I'll add more when I remember it.
Lilith,
Thanks for the addiction hints - didn't want to have to buy the whole BoVD just for one or two pesky questions.
No problem. The rules in the BoVD are a little different, I may have to look them up for my own edification and summarize here.
On your personal note ... I hear ya! My Dad suffers from alcoholism and I know what a painful condition it is for everyone involved. In the fantasy world, we try to keep its darker aspects downplayed and view it a bit more light-heartedly.
Indeed. I like realism as well, but there are some areas that must be tread carefully.
Watching something on the History Channel about making bourbon and whiskeys:
First, you make the base - a fermented grain of some sort. (Potatoes, corn, wheat or oat, for example). This is the infamous moonshine/white lightning/white dog. Depending on how long you let it ferment, it will be about 135 proof (65% alcohol).
The next step, storing in wooden barrels, is what makes a bourbon. Barrels are made with a particular kind of wood, which varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. (Jim Beam uses white oak, for example.) The insides of the barrel are charred, which will impart a particular flavor and color to the "shine". The "shine" will become whiskey/bourbon in about 4 years. A longer aging time will create a smoother, less harsh whiskey while also imparting more aroma and flavor.
Bourbon is at least 51% corn and is made in the US. The word "whiskey" comes from the Celtic word "uisge beatha" - "water of life."
A little more background to make those special brews more interesting in your campaign world.