I have a group that comprises two players that are often looking for odd and unusual ways to do things, or come up with less than realistic solutions to things. Some time ago, during a run of (unintentionally) VERY short campaigns, I was thinking aloud (as it was very late at night, maybe earlier morning and I was tired) and said, "Well, normally you could make it to the dungeon in two days, but with the gnome, it will take you three."
At this point, the frenzied berserker's player looked over at the gnome's player and said, "How much do you weigh, total?" The weight was well within his weight capacity, so he just picked the gnome up on his shoulder and said "problem solved."
I thought this a bit strange, but went with it. Unfortunately, the party now wants to carry all small characters around on the medium characters' shoulders. They're not all Master Blaster from Thunderdome, but I'm a little confused about what I should do to return the small characters to walking on their own two feet.
I don't think there's a huge problem with their solution actually. It makes sense that they would want to speed up travel times a bit. I would make them roleplay it out a bit though. It should be fun for character building. Also, it should take a round for the gnome to get on level ground and able to fight in combat, unless he takes falling damage or makes a jump check. Additionally, the barbarian should have a negative balance modifier in combat and Ac until he rids himself of the distraction.
Just some thoughts,
Rooster
I did impose combat penalties while the gone was riding, but the barbarian had an 18 Str and didn't care so much about them. Plus, the gnome liked sitting on top of him like a magical turret. The campaign didn't last long, and I didn't have a problem with it happening with one character, or even being infrequently repeated. I just want to stop them from carrying every small character they make like that.
Even the "little" people have dignity - if you've got good roleplayers, the concept of a gnome or halfling being picked up and carried like a child should be enough to raise their head and say "I'm no kid, and I'll get where I'm going on my own two feet, thank you!"
hey, the gnome could feel empowered by the situation! Using those taller than him as nothing but a pack horse could be a very positive experience.
hey, the gnome could feel empowered by the situation! Using those taller than him as nothing but a pack horse could be a very positive experience.You want to find something to put a stop to it? To quote the title of Chris Perkins' adventure in #63, "Gnome Droppings".
Nuff said.
LOL!!!
I like the idea, as long as you keep things in perspective. (People get on horses all the time to increase land travel right?) The biggest problem is weight, (which you took into consideration) followed immediately by height. A simple solution would be to take 1/2 the height of the smaller character and add it to the bigger character if the smaller character sits on the shoulder, full height if he stands.
You might be able to walk around in some dungeons that way, but you might have a problem with most dungeon doors and lintels, which might be a bit short for the two to comfortably go through in that configuration.
There is a third problem, staying on the other person's shoulder. Not sure how to handle that, off the top of my head other than with ride checks. I can just see the gnome failing his check and suddenly grappling the barbarian around the eyes to keep from falling off, as the now blinde barbarian steps into the pit of ultimate suffering.
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I am currently playing a 7 ft 300lbs half-orc Barbarian, and it isnt unusual for him to pick up the gnome for one reason or another. Heck, last campaign, i lifted him over my head to peak over a 10 ft wall. The campaign before, i had to save him by hucking him some distance. Yes, he took damage--but he lived. My only suggestion is to play your character according to class/race/aligment. My guy doesnt volunteer to carry his sorry little bum, but from time to time, he does--hesitantly--help the little guy out due to his respect for the abilities the gnome brings to the party. My 2 cents.
Thoth Amon
I am currently playing a 7 ft 300lbs half-orc Barbarian, and it isnt unusual for him to pick up the gnome for one reason or another. Heck, last campaign, i lifted him over my head to peak over a 10 ft wall. The campaign before, i had to save him by hucking him some distance. Yes, he took damage--but he lived. My only suggestion is to play your character according to class/race/aligment. My guy doesnt volunteer to carry his sorry little bum, but from time to time, he does--hesitantly--help the little guy out due to his respect for the abilities the gnome brings to the party. My 2 cents.
Thoth Amon
I think this is perfectly all right, and would encourage it. My problem was constant overland travel, but I think I've convinced them to stop now. I also like the thought of the gnome grabbing the barbarian's eyes and causing him to fall into the pit. I can see my group doing that....
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It's not a bad tactic, but I don't think it should be used without some sort or repercussions. Just from a real-world stand-point, my 3-year-old daughter is about gnome sized (well, not quite as heavy, yet, but approximating) and speaking from experience, I can carry her around on my shoulders for about an hour and a half before my shoulders and neck starts feeling it. Now, admitedly I in no way am approaching a 18 in either STR or CON, but I think that the comparison is somewhat valid...
After about 2-3 hours of travel I would think some kind of fatigue penalty would be applicable (say -1 on to hit and skill checks that derive from STR or CON) which increase every hour after that (2 hours with a saving throw, perhaps). Even nicer roads could be uneven or rutted, and leather boots don't provide nearly the shock absorbtion of our spiffy rubber soled Nikes. Just a thought.
It's not a bad tactic, but I don't think it should be used without some sort or repercussions. Just from a real-world stand-point, my 3-year-old daughter is about gnome sized (well, not quite as heavy, yet, but approximating) and speaking from experience, I can carry her around on my shoulders for about an hour and a half before my shoulders and neck starts feeling it. Now, admitedly I in no way am approaching a 18 in either STR or CON, but I think that the comparison is somewhat valid...
After about 2-3 hours of travel I would think some kind of fatigue penalty would be applicable (say -1 on to hit and skill checks that derive from STR or CON) which increase every hour after that (2 hours with a saving throw, perhaps). Even nicer roads could be uneven or rutted, and leather boots don't provide nearly the shock absorbtion of our spiffy rubber soled Nikes. Just a thought.
That's it! I'll use the rules for a forced march, with the first save required after only one hour of carrying the small character.
I think this is perfectly all right, and would encourage it. My problem was constant overland travel, but I think I've convinced them to stop now. I also like the thought of the gnome grabbing the barbarian's eyes and causing him to fall into the pit. I can see my group doing that....
I had sudden visions of Yoda..."ConcentrAAAAYte!"
And what happens if the barbarian forgot about his added height?
Thwack!
"Ouch!"
"Sorry!"
Thwack!
"#&%*#!"
"Sorry!"
Could be a problem in some dungeons.
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It's not a bad tactic, but I don't think it should be used without some sort or repercussions. Just from a real-world stand-point, my 3-year-old daughter is about gnome sized (well, not quite as heavy, yet, but approximating) and speaking from experience, I can carry her around on my shoulders for about an hour and a half before my shoulders and neck starts feeling it. Now, admitedly I in no way am approaching a 18 in either STR or CON, but I think that the comparison is somewhat valid...
After about 2-3 hours of travel I would think some kind of fatigue penalty would be applicable (say -1 on to hit and skill checks that derive from STR or CON) which increase every hour after that (2 hours with a saving throw, perhaps). Even nicer roads could be uneven or rutted, and leather boots don't provide nearly the shock absorbtion of our spiffy rubber soled Nikes. Just a thought.
Here's an idea: have the gnome pay for passage(carried).
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I think this is perfectly all right, and would encourage it. My problem was constant overland travel, but I think I've convinced them to stop now. I also like the thought of the gnome grabbing the barbarian's eyes and causing him to fall into the pit. I can see my group doing that....I am currently playing a 7 ft 300lbs half-orc Barbarian, and it isnt unusual for him to pick up the gnome for one reason or another. Heck, last campaign, i lifted him over my head to peak over a 10 ft wall. The campaign before, i had to save him by hucking him some distance. Yes, he took damage--but he lived. My only suggestion is to play your character according to class/race/aligment. My guy doesnt volunteer to carry his sorry little bum, but from time to time, he does--hesitantly--help the little guy out due to his respect for the abilities the gnome brings to the party. My 2 cents.
Thoth Amon
<laughing>
I don't know, I have a 5 year-old son that I've carried on my sholders for hours on hikes. I put a towel around my sholders to protect me from his little boney butt, but other than that it isn't really that difficult. Now I wouldn't want to try doing anything other than walking with him up there, but if your PCs dismount the Gnome to fight, climb or jump on a trampoline, then I'd say that as long as the gnome and all his gear didn't over encomber the mount PC let it go. You could use a rule that the Gnome, like Heavy armor causes the penalties associated with heavy armor just due to its bulk.
ASEO out
I don't know, I have a 5 year-old son that I've carried on my sholders for hours on hikes. I put a towel around my sholders to protect me from his little boney butt, but other than that it isn't really that difficult. Now I wouldn't want to try doing anything other than walking with him up there, but if your PCs dismount the Gnome to fight, climb or jump on a trampoline, then I'd say that as long as the gnome and all his gear didn't over encomber the mount PC let it go. You could use a rule that the Gnome, like Heavy armor causes the penalties associated with heavy armor just due to its bulk.
ASEO out
Well, the Con checks for forced march start at 10 and go up by 2 every hour, so the barbarian would be able to carry the little guy for quite a while before sucumbing, but probably not the whole day. Another way to stop this would be give the whole party mounts (but my group often doesn't go for that for some reason). The speed boost negates the gnome's little legs, although he'd have a smaller, slower mount than the others. But, he isn't going to ride the barbarian's shoulders while the latter is on a horse without some interesting rolls!
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Playing Devil's Advocate, a halfling or gnome will fit into a Heward's Handy Haversack. The Haversack is in a backpack configuration and acts as if it weights only 5 lbs, no matter how full. Throw in some comfy pillows and gnomes and halflings can travel in comfort and style, letting the big guy do all the walking or getting saddle sore.
Now, the real question is - why do you NOT want them to do this?
If you are trying to correct them assuming that all short people want to be carried, just have the gnome (or halfling) be offended and refuse (as suggested in an earlier post).
If you are trying to make the trip last longer, just make the distance farther or the terrain rougher.
If you want some realism in your fantasy game, use the forced march rules you pointed out. This lets the players know there are down-sides to their solution without specifically penalizing them for creative thinking. It also explains why this is not a more common occurance in your world.
If it offends your sensibilities, you are having a personal problem - lump it. Travel time is generally a minor consideration and rarely worth agonizing over.
Playing Devil's Advocate, a halfling or gnome will fit into a Heward's Handy Haversack. The Haversack is in a backpack configuration and acts as if it weights only 5 lbs, no matter how full. Throw in some comfy pillows and gnomes and halflings can travel in comfort and style, letting the big guy do all the walking or getting saddle sore.
Now, the real question is - why do you NOT want them to do this?
If you are trying to correct them assuming that all short people want to be carried, just have the gnome (or halfling) be offended and refuse (as suggested in an earlier post).
If you are trying to make the trip last longer, just make the distance farther or the terrain rougher.
If you want some realism in your fantasy game, use the forced march rules you pointed out. This lets the players know there are down-sides to their solution without specifically penalizing them for creative thinking. It also explains why this is not a more common occurance in your world.
If it offends your sensibilities, you are having a personal problem - lump it. Travel time is generally a minor consideration and rarely worth agonizing over.
Realism-ish. I can't think of the last time I read in any fantasy book about someone carrying a smaller race, and while parents often carry their children on their shoulders, it's not usually for that long (of course, most parents, as pointed out earlier, are somewhere in the average range of strength, not a barbarian's). I've never heard of players having the small characters carried (as part of normal travel) before on any of these boards. I just figure that there is a logical reason for this.
My plalyers have thrown wierd ideas at me before when I was tired and couldn't think (I believe they mean to do this), and they have some nice Bluff checks, and often talk me into okaying rules to make the game go on. Rules I later realize are stupid and have to scuttle. So I'm hesitant to approve some of the wierder things they suggest, but I don't like to just say "no" (except to the halfling mounted on a human mounted on a hill giant, all cavaliers- that was a no brainer, and yes, they seriously suggested it). I like to see if there's a logical reason to point out why it wouldn't work first. If I really can't find one and it doesn't unbalance the game too much, I'm generally all right with it.
My plalyers have thrown wierd ideas at me before when I was tired and couldn't think (I believe they mean to do this)Do they read the boards here? If so, might I suggest the gnome start carrying a lance so he can have the barbarian charge opponents? (sorry, I shouldn't encourage them)
No, luckily, they don't.
Have you ever seen Willow? Mad Martigan carried Willow on his shoulders when they were inslaved by the evil army.
I'd definetly go with the force march thing for overland travel. If they tried to use the tactic in combat I would stare blankly at my players until they realized I was not cool with the idea. At the very least I would require the Mounted combat feat, an exotic harness specialy made (have fun convincing someone to design and make a barbarian sadle), as well as a sub rule similar to armor check penalty/max dex bonus for bearing the sadle+gnome+gnomish gear arround in a fight. Then, considering I would imagine most opponents the party would be fighting to find this incredibly odd, they would have tendencies to target the gnome with ranged attacks/spells.
Though I might not sound like it, I do like the idea, and intend on one day running a pair of goblins (more than likely it'll be one goblin riding a half goblin half something else) who ride into battle, one on top of the other. I saw a drawing of a character who was cut from some barbaric fighting video game way back when I subscribed to GamePro which gave me the idea.