I have been gaming with more-or-less the same people for fifteen years. We’ve always agreed that we have a really strong group at the core—-similar play styles, similar interests, even similar politics—-we’ve weathered a lot of tough times over the years, and we’ve stuck together thanks to our mutual love of the hobby. But lately the fire seems to have gone out.
Long gone are the mad weekend-long sessions of our early 20’s, but for almost ten years we’ve been playing weekly. During that time we’ve mostly had long-running (1-2 year) campaigns, with a sprinkling of one-shots for flavor every now and then. In the past year and a half out campaigns have grown shorter and shorter—never ending with finally beating the recurring villains, but rather when people complain they are bored with their characters. During this time our gaming frequency reduced to a few weeks of play, followed by a week or two off.
When our last game fizzled out, I suggested we remake a group of characters we played a few years back that we always talk about, who never really got to a decent level. Folks seemed excited about the idea (one player wasn’t with the group during the original campaign, so she was neutral). By this point we were playing every other weekend or so. At the start of a campaign I always insist of three uninterrupted sessions to build momentum, and I suggested we try playing 2 out of 3 weeks. Everyone agreed and we made our plans.
The first and second sessions went great. Then the next week had to be canceled. Then we played again. Then we found out that the next seven weeks were out because one party had plans every weekend (legitimate things like weddings, bachelor parties, and a trip out of town). The rest of us were not pleased, but we understood.
After the long break, I made sure everyone was ready to go, and was assured that no further problems were expected. We played once, and then the same party canceled for the following week. They then announced they had to leave in the early afternoon the week after that, so we got together in the morning so we could actually get a full half session in. Then they told us the week after that was booked too. The week after that another member of the group told us we’d have to do a half session again, because something came up, and he would only be free for a couple of hours the week after that. And now the couple that has canceled so frequently may have something the 3rd or 4th weekend of the month, but they won’t know for a while.
I’m pretty annoyed with a certain couple, but I’m really trying to keep my cool. I sent an email around, asking everyone to please check their schedules and see if they saw any other problems coming up. I pointed out we’ve played 6 out of the last 16 weeks.
The response I received said: “maybe we only game every two or three weeks... If that's not cool with someone, then we should stop because the likelihood of endless available Saturdays is nil.”
I have fought off the urge to respond, because my response would almost assuredly be one of anger. At this point I’m seriously considering moving on, maybe taking the other player or two who seems—albeit less so than me—annoyed by all this. But I really hat to walk away from all the years of history we this group.
Advice would really be appreciated.
I have been gaming with more-or-less the same people for fifteen years. We’ve always agreed that we have a really strong group at the core—-similar play styles, similar interests, even similar politics—-we’ve weathered a lot of tough times over the years, and we’ve stuck together thanks to our mutual love of the hobby. But lately the fire seems to have gone out.
Long gone are the mad weekend-long sessions of our early 20’s, but for almost ten years we’ve been playing weekly. During that time we’ve mostly had long-running (1-2 year) campaigns, with a sprinkling of one-shots for flavor every now and then. In the past year and a half out campaigns have grown shorter and shorter—never ending with finally beating the recurring villains, but rather when people complain they are bored with their characters. During this time our gaming frequency reduced to a few weeks of play, followed by a week or two off.
When our last game fizzled out, I suggested we remake a group of characters we played a few years back that we always talk about, who never really got to a decent level. Folks seemed excited about the idea (one player wasn’t with the group during the original campaign, so she was neutral). By this point we were playing every other weekend or so. At the start of a campaign I always insist of three uninterrupted sessions to build momentum, and I suggested we try playing 2 out of 3 weeks. Everyone agreed and we made our plans.
The first and second sessions went great. Then the next week had to be canceled. Then we played again. Then we found out that the next seven weeks were out because one party had plans every weekend (legitimate things like weddings, bachelor parties, and a trip out of town). The rest of us were not pleased, but we understood.
After the long break, I made sure everyone was ready to go, and was assured that no further problems were expected. We played once, and then the same party canceled for the following week. They then announced they had to leave in the early afternoon...
I've had similar situations. Try to keep the friendship, but let them know that your interest and amount of time available for the game has not lessened. Look for some new gamers (even newbie gamers) to inject some new blood and life into your games and you'll not only gain some new friends, but also get a lot of the waning excitement back. Sometimes that's what it takes.
Enthusiasm can be very contagious. New players bring fresh perspective, interesting new personality quirks (some good, some bad), and can add the spark your fading players needed to find (or make) more time in their lives for it.
Some groups have a hard core members only club mentallity and don't want to bring new people they don't know into their group. Perhaps it's fear of disturbing a vibe the group has? I don't know. Whatever the case, if a new player isn't meshing simply tell him/her so and uninvite the person.
Anyway, that's my best advice for you. It's worked very well for me once I got over my own "ruining the vibe" mentality and allowed some new blood in to my long running campaign and had to uninvite some long time gamers that couldn't commit to playing regularly. About once a year I still look for a new player or two to mix into the group to shake things up a little.
Welcome to the world of gaming as you get older TPK.
It gets hard sometimes, and it tends to get even harder as time wears on ... people get married, have kids, move farther away, etc.
I recently began a new 3e campaign with a bunch of old-timers, and the first thing we did was to meet (a non-play night) to look at the calendar. One guy works in another state, another has two young children (and a decidedly non-gamer wife), a third is busy almost every other weekend -- it's tough.
Don't be afraid to set a schedule and meet even if one or two people cannot attend. When people realize the game proceeds without them, it tends to encourage participation (unless they really don't care to begin with). It sounds like much of your trouble is with one couple; it would be a shame to let the campaign falter because it sits low on their priority list (if this is the case).
Sometimes too, it's best to let the field lay a season -- take a 4 or 6 month break, play boardgames or poker or whatever, and before you know it, folks will be clamoring to play. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, after all.
Some really good advice already. I'm in the same boat longevity wise with all the people in our gaming group being veteran gamers...and all being veterans of only gaming with the same people for the last 15+ years.
Injecting new blood into the game by introducing newbies is a good idea, but often newbies are totally dominated by the veteran group and either quit gaming or fall in line with how the group acts in order to fit in.
If enough of your veteran gamer friends are on the verge of dropping out, just cancel the campaign and start a new one with just newbies...and the old veterans will want to show up again on a more consistent basis.
There's nothing wrong with shorter sessions. We all enjoyed the 12 hour mega games of our youth, when we had no responsibilities, but life goes on as Scylla said. Just play whenever you guys can.
In my group, if someone can't show up for a while, they just turn their character over to another player or the DM. If the character is available for the game, the character gets played (albeit at a "reduced" role-playing role) and still gets XP (and could also die).
My other policy is that if more than 2 people don't show up, we'll play a board game or a side trek with different characters.
...but I do think that a couple of your players will be non-gamers within a few months. It's okay, let them know that you'll still be there whenever their schedules allow them to come back.
Side game ideas: have a little back-up side trek planned. We use the D20 modern system. My side games have included:
Texas Revolution 1836--fight alongside Davy Crockett at the Alamo!
Secret Agents get teleported to D&D world--take out Red Dragons with heat seeking SAM missiles. (my players' perennial favorite)
Trapped in Corregidor in 1942 as the Japanese Army closes in!
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Hey TPK (and others),
I had a similar situation a while back. We got in a rut, played infrequently, and players were unhappy and not having fun, not to mention how I felt. Here's what I did to solve these very same issues:
1) I switched from gaming on infrequent Sunday afternoons to Thursday evenings. I found a 3-4 hour session every week was better than an 8 hour session every 2-3 weeks. Now, by changing the schedule of when gaming night was, it changed who could attend, but change was good for the group as a whole.
2) We changed game systems (actually, we changed to D&D3), which got the group out of its rut. The game system really does help set the tone.
3) As the DM, I focused less on the epic campaign (which carries its own unique type of baggage) and more on the adventure (with a definite beginning and end). This seemed to engage my players more, and suddenly they started showing up more regularly. It is possible (no insult intended), if people are frequently bored of their characters, or aren't able to make it, they aren't having fun. The game you are laying out in front of them might not appeal to their tastes. This is worth talking over with your players. Ask them what you can do to make things more enjoyable.
4) We have a group that fluctuates between 5-7 players. I've ruled that if two people can't make it, we play anyway. No point in spoiling the evening for everyone else. If three can't make it, we have a board game night. Players leave a copy of their characters in the game room, and the other players get to control them. They still get experience, they still have the chance of getting gacked. That being said, if the players are not in the middle of a dungeon, extraplanar rift, etc., if its convenient we do dump characters of absent players in a tavern, their home etc, and keep them out of play if possible.
Hopefully some of these ideas help you. I'm having more fun now than before with my old group, and I've kept them all as friends. I hope you can turn all your efforts into some enjoyment!
I agree with what has been said. I never penalize players for being abscent (especially if the reason is school or job related). I have presently five players. We still play if one is missing (he becomes an NPC wich I or another player will play). With two being abscent, we usually agree to play something else (like poker or boardgames). With three abscent, we just cancel. If the same person is constantly missing games (we ONLY play once every other week), I ask the player if it's okay to "write off" his character for a while, until he's more available and he could join back anytime if he wants too. That way I keep a good friend and the game goes on. Even if the game is very important to us, friendship will always be above everything else.
Ultradan
When both me and a second player moved away, my group was special enough to keep going (three out of five of us were DMs and we're all in our 30's & 40's); we maintained the game that we had going by reducing the sessions to once per month, pre-scheduled well in advance, and meeting at the home of the person who lived most central to all of us.
This became the 'secondary' game while I rebuilt a 'primary' game in my new city for weekly play.
M
I have to second the Epic Campaign comment by Farewell2kings. My group never seemed to plug in properly anymore as we got older to an epic campaign; with work, school and kids it was hard to invest as much energy in a campaign.
I broke the game down into mini story arcs, and though some characters may re occur, the definite beginning and end was helpful.
Also, sometimes you have to do the hard thing; let some people go or tell them to change. My group has one or two people who seemed to be the disruptive ones with enthusiasm and scheduling, and so they were asked to change or ship out. So far they have changed for the better.
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Ive been playing off and on for nearly 30 years (i'm 38)and have seen alot of changes. I find limiting a campaign to one weekend a month works well for 'longing makes the heart grow fonder.' Thats not to say i dont have other campaigns running on other weekends. This is how i usually run campaigns and keep things interesting:
1) Run one 3.5 once a month
2) Run a "classic"(1st or 2nd edition--you know the ones) once a month. For example: T1-4, A1-4, GDQ1-9?. Should bring characters to a pretty respectible level. Besides, one can never go wrong with the classics. I'm in S3 now and everyone in the party had never played it. Wild!
3) Lets not forget DM Round-Robins: Where everyone takes turns each game day to DM. Always fun.
4) Allow friends who could not commit to a steady schedule to come in and play NPC's. It is a game, after all.
5) Variation to #4: bring in other players to play the monsters. Gets pretty intense on the gaming table when a live person/s are playing the monster/s that are trying to kill you. This is also a great idea for the unfortunate player that was killed in your campaign. This allows him to stay involved with the campaign for the rest of the evening. Or he can play any applicable NPC. Of course, next game day he will bring in his/her newly rolled up character to start anew.
6) Change up the location of game play.
7) Advanced: Allow ANY and ALL D20 system characters, races and spells to add surprise to your campaign. If you're an experienced DM, you can make just about anything work, and keep things in balance, just the same. At least, i have never had any complaints. People love my campaigns for just that reason: Mystery. Just make sure they all bring in their Players Handbook and their applicable handbook for their specialized character, race, etc. Really, really adds enjoyment to the game, to the players, and to the DM.
8) ALLOW PSIONICS. God, i have no idea why so may DM's disallow that character class. We refer to narrow-minded Dm's as "Clucks." Ha!
9) Coolest thing of all: Write down your characters adventures every month and one day soon you have a/the coolest heroic fantasy book ever, and one you completely relate to. You should easily get 10 or more pages per session. When you read it it brings back those very feelings you/your character had when experiencing his/her adventures. I have books written for characters level 1 to 20+( or up to the point of their unfortunate demise), and they are hundreds of pages long. Being able to write well isnt a prerequisite. But it is the coolest thing. I still open up books ive written from old campaigns from 20 years ago and relive the emotions page by page. AWESOME, truly AWESOME!!!
Hope that helps.
Thoth in So. Cal.
The philosophy at our house is "game on!"... regardless of who shows up... and they all know it. Game runs every Saturday afternoon. We cancel every once in a while, 'cause there's times when you just have to or everyone just needs a break, but those times are few and far between.
Some people on the boards have talked about letting other players run the PCs of missing players. We don't do that as we really feel a person's PC is their own. Instead, We always have players do up some "extra" chars. When everyone is present, they take one each. When players are missing, the remaining players run two PCs. If necessary, the DM will use NPCs to balance out the group due to missing players.
We divide treasure at the end of each session, and players that miss sessions don't get XP for those sessions. When they come back and hear about all the cool stuff the rest of the party got while they were gone, or the drama they missed, they're usually there the next week.
Usually, the "alternate" PCs get enough play that they don't lag behind in level too much, or the players will opt to swap them out when arc stops and another begins to keep them comprable. Also, for the tougher sessions, DM will let the players take two apiece even if everyone's there, so it balances OK.
The last thing I would suggest is, if your players are getting bored, ask THEM what they would like. I don't know how much story-line / background you use vs. hack-and-slash, but the story is what's kept the old-timers in our group playing consistently for 15 years. And it's the story that keeps them coming back.
Lots of great suggestions here, thanks everyone.
A lot of folks mentioned getting some "new blood" in the group. This is something I've alawys been in favor of. Over the years we've had several new additions, unfortunatly a lot of them didn't work out (admittedly farewell2king's comment about veteran domination usually rings true here, but once it was a trio of brothers who dominated the rest of us--but that's another story), which has made some folks leery of recruiting. The couple in question met when I invited a co-worker to join our group a couple of years ago. I think it's a great idea, and I hope to do this soon.
In the past we tried soldiering on when a player couldn't make it, we'd try to come up with a logical reason they wouldn't be involved. Then there was a run where a particular character had to visit his dying mother, then got locked up, then came down with the flu, then appencicitis, then bone cancer, before making a miraculous recovery once school let out, we decided no mas. Perhaps it is time to revisit this. I imagine I'd have another player take over the absent character, but visions of Mark the Red from the Gamers make me nervous.
To make matters more difficult, this couple insisted we start gaming at their house (she said my place has bad "fung shei" he explained that meant it was too "ghetto"), so all the minis, props, mastermaze, and a lot of the books are over there.
I have always attempted to be sensitive to the needs of my players, and I try to keep a good mix of action and story. I often ask what people liked and didn't like, sometimes I can't keep everyone happy ("I didn't like the part where my character died," "quit making the bad guys so evil."), but I always try. When I broached the subject to the group, I asked if there was something that people didin't like about the game or their characters, but I didn't get any real feedback. I suspect at least one person really doesn't know what they want.
The messages I get from this particular party are pretty confusing. For example, after canceling 7 straight weeks she wanted us to get started as quickly as possible so she could get her "fix." But she must have gotten it pretty quickly because an hour later she was was surfing the web and playing games on her laptop rather than paying attention to the game.
1 - In the past we tried soldiering on when a player couldn't make it, we'd try to come up with a logical reason they wouldn't be involved.2 - To make matters more difficult, this couple insisted we start gaming at their house (she said my place has bad "fung shei" he explained that meant it was too "ghetto"), so all the minis, props, mastermaze, and a lot of the books are over there.
3 - I often ask what people liked and didn't like, sometimes I can't keep everyone happy ("I didn't like the part where my character died," "quit making the bad guys so evil."), but I always try.
I numbered some point you made for my own reference in answering. Your quote section got cut off before getting to the player who websurfs on her lap top came up, so we'll make that #4.
Geez! Have YOU got a problem group. I don't envy you one bit. Here's how we've handled some stuff like this in the past / what I could see myself or any other DM in our group doing:
1 - I know there are lots of groups that feel the need for a logical reason for PC absences, and maybe yours is one of them. For us, we suspend disbelief. DM usually cracks some joke about "Crimson must have made a wrong turn at that last tunnel, hopefully she'll find the rest of you later.... Couldn't get Talon out of bed at the inn so you decided to teach him a lesson by leaving without him..." or whatever is appropriate to where the group left off and moves on. Next session when they're back... they're simply back and it's another crack as to why "the replacements" are gone. It's that simple.
2- Explain to the couple that while gaming at their house has been cool, their inconsistency in being available is affecting the whole group. So.. to make life easier on everyone, you're moving the location until their time frees up more. Get your stuff out of their house and host it at yours if you can. If you can't, find out who of your consistent gamers can host. If there are others in your group equally frustrated by all the cancellations, they'll be HAPPY to help and likely grateful that you're taking steps to ensure the game continues.
3- So after you slap them upside the head for such idiodic comments, you can explain to them the difference between an RPG and Pokemon on a gameboy... and tell them to decide which they prefer and stop wasting your time.
4- Our players don't have computers at the table, but I guarantee you that if one gets distracted by the TV in the background or whatever else is going on a doesn't pay attention, ANY of our DMs make sure they don't do it again. That PC suddenly becomes the subject of a trap / wandering monseter/ stray spell / blue-bolt-from-heaven and has to react to something WITHOUT having the benefit of the DM repeating what they are supposed to be reacting to. And the rest of the table usually throws their dice at the offender.
As a DM, you put an inordinate amount of time into creating the gameworld your players are going through. You should be HIGHLY offended at what is quite frankly childish, selfish, and downright RUDE behavior on the part of your problem players. And... if they are allowed to continue... your serious gamers will start getting discouraged and frustrated. You are the DM. You set the tone of what is expected at the table. Respect for ALL sitting around it should be the first thing on the list.
Well, this weekend's game fell apart too, and it looks like the same for next weekend. We're having a group meeting tomorrow night. Hopefully I'll have good news to report.
Wish me luck.
I recently quit DMing my gaming group of 14 years. As a long time DM I have to state how much work goes into running an adventure, even a pre-made one! A couple of mediocre players can ruin the mood of the evening...as my players can attest, there is nothing worse than an annoyed DM. Fortunatly we have another player who runs games and has recently agreed to start DMing his campaign for us again. It;s a good thing, too...I was getting the urge to start trolling the waters looking down dark alleys for a new, exciting gaming group! My cheatin' heart!!
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Good luck, stay strong.
Remember: the only irreplacable person in your campaign is you (you've got all the game notes after all), but everyone is replaceable in a game group.
If people have to be dropped from a game group (temporarily or permanently) because the real world has bigger demands on their time, there is no shame in that for anyone.
So we had our meeting.
My personal take on the discussion leading up to our agreement really reinforced the idea that one member of the group in particular had little regard for gaming in general. It seemed that she was looking for a game that had no strings attached, that was available when she felt like it. Her husband was in favor of trying to work things out, but seemed adamant that no blame whatsoever be laid on either of them, constantly saying that “everyone” has had to cancel at one point or another, even though two of us never had, and the other guy only twice. They also spent surprising amount of time pointing fingers at those who had been late to the game in the past. Needless to say this didn’t start things off too well.
I suggested we start by having everyone indicate how frequently they’d like to game, using either long (6+ hours) and short (3-4 hours) sessions. One vote for one long and maybe one short per month (guess who that was). One vote, surprisingly from the other half of the disruptive couple, for long sessions every week (there we looks that make me wonder if that remark might not lead to later argument, but I digress). One vote for weekly long sessions, with the occasional short session sprinkled in for 3-day weekends (gasps and eye-rolling for that one). One vote for two long and two short sessions per month. I voted for 3 long sessions per month (mostly because—a—I knew I’d never get weekly sessions—and b—because if I ever had to cancel for any reason, I’d never hear the end of it).
In the end we compromised to 2 scheduled long sessions per month, and 1 scheduled short session per month, with the option of another floating short session on a different day than we normally play. If that actually happens I’ll be pleased as punch, because it is more than twice as much as we’ve gamed in the past several months. For one brief moment I thought it would all work out, and then we tried to work out the schedule for the next eight weeks… 3 weeks with (probably) no game, 3 weeks with short sessions (one of which is my fault: I have to work one Saturday every 2 months, but I made it clear that I’m willing to quit), and 2 long sessions. I’m no math wiz, but that doesn’t seem like what we agreed to.
I bit my tongue and decided to see how it goes; I really want to make this work. But at the same time, I’m not going to let one or two people ruin things for the rest of the group. Isn't it enough that I have a dysfunctional family, why must I have a dysfunctional gaming group too?
So we had our meeting.
So, who's hosting (as in... did you remove it from the disruptive couple's house), and did you set it up in such a way that the game can go on if the disruptive couple continues to be, well, disruptive?
So, who's hosting (as in... did you remove it from the disruptive couple's house), and did you set it up in such a way that the game can go on if the disruptive couple continues to be, well, disruptive?So we had our meeting.
Just to be safe, I'd look for another meeting place, as well, especially if your disruptive couple continues to be...disruptive!
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Y'know TPK Jay, if your group continues to have non-gaming sessions, why don't you (and any salvagable players who want to play as well) so play some one-offs in the RPGA? You aren't betraying a group that can't get together?
Heck, find out when an RPGA night is near you (www.rpga.com) and invite *everybody* ... those that show, show. Those that don't, don't.
Your meeting sounded, well, chaotic. This would drive me nuts as a DM.
Just like Tiger Lily; The game goes no matter what. (Except for 1 session when it was just me (the DM) and 1 player. Then we played a boardgame.)
WaterdhavianFlapjack