I've got a problem that I've never had to face in 25 yrs of DMing...
Two of my players have started dating and have begun to leave the session early, every week...specifically, if we start PLAYING (after the initial greets, snacking and BSing is over and dice start falling) at 8:00 pm and end at midnight, they usually leave at 9:45 pm, give or take 15 minutes - which is just under halfway through the night's session.
At this rate, they are playing their generated characters LESS than 50% of the time, leaving me to NPC them or have other players run them...
Can I get some opinions from the DMs out there as to how they would handle this?
- Ask them to commit to the game better or leave?
- Run the characters without complaint?
- Assign other players to run them each week?
I'm curious as to how this should go; I'd like to resolve this before it becomes more than an annoyance for the other players.
M
I have had to deal with this problem in the past. Granted, my current group has not experienced this issue, but I recall it in previous groups.
I would talk them to seperate from the game. It allows you to address the issue without embarassing them in front of the other players. See if there is an issue that would prevent them from staying the whole session and let them know that you spend alot of time planning the game and you would hope they would have the same commitment about playing the game.
Hope that helps...
Neomorte
I've got a problem that I've never had to face in 25 yrs of DMing...
Can I get some opinions from the DMs out there as to how they would handle this?
- Ask them to commit to the game better or leave?
- Run the characters without complaint?
- Assign other players to run them each week?I'm curious as to how this should go; I'd like to resolve this before it becomes more than an annoyance for the other players.
M
First time in 25 years...luck bastard ;-)
Having been DMing in the military community, I am very familiar with erratic schedules amounts my players. Here are some of the things I have done
1. If you have enough players, you can go with the commit to the game or leave. Or maybe have them play a reoccurring "Guest Character". I'm currently doing this with Greg Vaughan in my game. He is able to make a session every now and then. He plays a wandering Bard character that crosses paths with the party (Sometimes in the strangest places, but he is a bit of a crazy character, and always looking for a new tale to tell). He'll adventure with the party for the session, then wander off, or otherwise be worked out of the game at the end of the session. This works fine for a single character/player when you have an otherwise standing party.
2. I ran a campaign once where the PCs were all low level members of an adventure's guild. They even had guild tattoos. Whenever a player missed a session (which with field training and scheduled missions happened fairly frequently) or left a session early, their character would just vanish. "Poof". Only to re appear later (when the player returned). There was the added whole mystery of what was happening to these characters when they were gone, and sometimes (when a player moved away, something fairly common in a military community) the character would never reappear. Sometimes characters would reappear wounded/fully healed/or with some item they didn't have before, and they would always have no memory of the time they were gone. "What the hell is happening" became a continual side plot...What was happening was that higher level guild members had the ability to summon lower level guild members with scrolls and the like to do jobs for them kind of like a summon monster spell. A wizard might summon a fighter to stand watch while he studied spells in a dungeon. A Fighter might summon a thief to pick a lock, or whatever. The summoned character was compelled to do what the higher level guild member commanded. Some of the kinder guild members would heal the PCs or give them some sort of payment, the crueler ones would not. ...Would the PCs eventually figure out what was happening? Would they them selves become higher level guild members with the power to summon underlings...would they embrace that ability or fight against the guilds' abuse of initiates?
This one worked will with a large group of players that weren't negatively impacted by the loss of a single character for a session or two.
3. In my current game, if a player misses a session or has to leave early, they usually just let another player run their character. I have become fairly deft at removing and reinserting PCs into a campaign over the years though so hopefully when I do that it doesn't seem weird in the over-all story.
4. Sometimes I just run a side session with other characters. Players in my campaign each have about 5-7 characters that are at various levels and locations within my campaign world. If I'm down to two players and at a point where that branch of the campaign will suffer because of the lack of attendance, they I'll often just run a side session for the night for a couple of the characters of the players who are there. It is kind of like the non story line episodes on Star Trek or the X-Files. It also lets the players experiment with other characters and keep all their characters close in levels should they want to switch characters between adventures.
ASEO out
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Well, i would talk to these guys in private and would try to find a solution that is allright for everyone.
As a GM i'd try to explain to them how much work it can be to prepare a session for the group and that it is kind of demotivating to see two players leaving regulary after half the session. If i'd be you, Marc, there'd be no long discussion about this topic. I'd just let them decide if they still want to play with me and the group or not.
Well, i'm not a kind of despot at the gaming table and if a players have to leave early i'd be the last one to blame them, but if this happens regulary, i'd view it as an insult towards the game and the other players and would try to find a solution quickly.
I don't know how often your group meets, my group plays weekly or once every two weeks and so it should be possible to keep at least one evening in 14 days free for gaming if there's really interest in this.
Sure, there are exceptions, but in general i think this has to be possible. And a 4 hour session isn't that long, hmm? We are playing for eight to ten hours at each session.
And there are always good ways to solve situations like these as long as the group is large enough (as it seems to be the case with your group). Many of my gamers are studying and sometimes have a lot of stress because of important tests or similar things and we always find ways to explain why their characters are not present for some weeks and an empty slot in the gaming group is always a nice way to introduce new people to the hobby.
ASEO, I really like that adventuring guild idea...I might have to borrow that.
My players that do not attend or have to leave early are responsible for finding a willing substitute player for their character, or they don't get the XP.
If you halve the XP awarded to these characters based on their player's lack of attendance, then they'll have to make a decision.....nookie or XP? I know what my decision would be. D&D is fun, but....well.....
I would talk them to seperate from the game. It allows you to address the issue without embarassing them in front of the other players. See if there is an issue that would prevent them from staying the whole session and let them know that you spend alot of time planning the game and you would hope they would have the same commitment about playing the game.
Hope that helps...
Neomorte
The one time so far that the issue was discussed, these are the reasons:
- One lives across town; the other lives with parent(and step-parent) and must get home before severely late hours to avoid disturbing the peace and causing friction.Considering that the circumstances are unavoidable, their early departure must be either dealt with or the players asked to leave the game...
ASEO's idea seems cool, but I would have to get the party involved with an organization (probably their related church) with the capability to move them in/out of the group, especially since the point where they're at right now isn't amenable to typical traffic (the ruins of Karran-Kurral)...
My concern is that some of the other players are annoyed at the burden on the group the early departues cause - not to mention the self-serving nature of the players themselves; I've never explicitly asked anyone to ever leave one of my games, but if need be, there's always a first time...
M
Some of it depends on whether you can afford to lose players.
Another thing to discuss with them is the time of game play. Maybe start a bit ealier. I usually run sessions from 2 pm to 8 pm every other saturday. That seems to get the kitchen passes for the dads in the group. Some of it all depends on how often you play and how long, and how fast you want your game to move. It took my group three sessions to play Sunless Citadel, and 5 to do Forge of Fury. If we are doing a play test, We'll sometimes start earlier or play longer, but then we usually take an extra week off to let those that need to accumulate brownie points.
We also don't always play the full 6 hours. If we come to a good session finishing point before 8pm, then I end it there, and everyone can use the remaining time to BS, help clean up, or update character sheets.
ASEO out
Some of it depends on whether you can afford to lose players.
- After peaking at 14 players and currently running 10 of them (two just had a newborn, one had surgery and two have short term scheduling issues), I can afford to lose some...easily.
Another thing to discuss with them is the time of game play. Maybe start a bit ealier. I usually run sessions from 2 pm to 8 pm every other saturday. That seems to get the kitchen passes for the dads in the group. Some of it all depends on how often you play and how long, and how fast you want your game to move. It took my group three sessions to play Sunless Citadel, and 5 to do Forge of Fury. If we are doing a play test, We'll sometimes start earlier or play longer, but then we usually take an extra week off to let those that need to accumulate brownie points.
- We play 7pm until 11 pm or so every Wednesday, because that's the one best night of the week that everyone agreed upon to play; 7pm allows everyone time to arrive on a weekday - the most common delay is waiting up until 7:30-7:45 for at least 75% of the players to arrive and/or to eat, myself included.
I have four players that are married, but two out of four have their spouses in the game with them (myself and one of the players, whose wife is a player also - but they just had a baby and are on sabbatical anyways, so...) The other two have no issues with the game day or time - the ones who do are all single and childless - their issues are domestic.
We also don't always play the full 6 hours. If we come to a good session finishing point before 8pm, then I end it there, and everyone can use the remaining time to BS, help clean up, or update character sheets.
ASEO out
- We'll end early if there'a an encounter looming around the corner, and there are times we'll play late if a hot battle is still in progress and I have at least 50% of the players present (the record is 4am...on a weeknight...). I've tried to avoid calling off a game night, but I'm out of town next week, so it's going to happen soon for only the second time.
M
Hmmm I can see where late starts and early deaprtures would cramp you game. If you can do it without losing friends I'd say nix those that regulary get less than 3 hours of play in your 4 hour session.
Another option is have those who are not around enough to play a PC run the monsters or a perticular villian for you. I've never played a villian as visciously as I've seen them played when I gave a player a chance to run one against the party. This is also good practice for a player aspiring to be a DM.
If I recall correctly, you game has a fairly high mortality rate. Maybe if you limit your party to closer to 4 characters, you won't have to beef up the encounters and characters will last longer. That might also save you on prep time.
I guess a final option would be to split you group, and play with each set every other week. That way you could possibly adjust the time for those who always have to leave early so that it doesn't impact the other players on those nights.
How do your players who can make the whole session feel about those that are time impared?
ASEO out
14 players???? Holy Half-Fiend Cow!!! I say definitely institute something that penalizes their early departure by making their PC's fall behind on XP...they'll make the decision to leave for themselves.
Hmmm I can see where late starts and early deaprtures would cramp you game. If you can do it without losing friends I'd say nix those that regulary get less than 3 hours of play in your 4 hour session.
- One option...
Another option is have those who are not around enough to play a PC run the monsters or a perticular villian for you. I've never played a villian as visciously as I've seen them played when I gave the play a chance to run one against the party. This is also good practice for a player aspiring to be a DM.
- Considering how much they enjoy the misfortune of the other players, that's an option...but one I'm not thrilled to take, as an 'old-timer' DM who likes to keep 100% creative control of the game...
If I recall correctly, you game has a fairly high mortality rate. Maybe if you limit your party to closer to 4 characters, you won't have to beef up the encounters and characters will last longer. That might also save you on prep time.
- True...but most of my group I see outside of game...which could be awkward if I ditch half of them.
I guess a final option would be to split you group, and play with each set every other week. That way you could possibly adjust the time for those who always have to leave early so that it doesn't impact the other players on those nights.
- I actually got one player to start his own game as an alternative to bringing in three or four new novices; he instead started up a beginner's game on a different day. If not for that, I may have been up to seventeen players (in theory).
How do your players who can make the whole session feel about those that are time impared?
ASEO out
- The grumbles started up last week...about three weeks after the early departures became noticeably regular, as in, more than twice in a row; it's become a regular thing the past month or two, now.
Thanks for the opinions...
M
Slip a saltpeter mickey into their frappuccinos.
Saltpeter is like... the anti-ruffie.
No engorging, no more game interruptions. ;)
"And peace returned to the valley once more..."
Slip a saltpeter mickey into their frappuccinos.
Saltpeter is like... the anti-ruffie.
No engorging, no more game interruptions. ;)
"And peace returned to the valley once more..."
Honestly...I don't think they're going somewhere just to boink before heading off to their respective, 'sex-averse' domiciles...
Although, if they were, they'd be bounced in a second for being so inconsiderate to a dozen other people..
M
Honestly...I don't think they're going somewhere just to boink before heading off to their respective, 'sex-averse' domiciles...Although, if they were, they'd be bounced in a second for being so inconsiderate to a dozen other people..
M
lol.
They have six other nights a week to get dey swerve on. So, of course they're not leaving to bump uglies. Then again, what if the passion you bring to your DMing puts them in the mood?
::dry heave::
Perhaps switch to the Ben Stein deadpan approach to descriptions.
"Yeah... there's a swarm of beetles coming at you. It doesn't look good (sigh). No... not good at all."
BTW, 14 players at a time? Wow. I can't even imagine the dynamic. I've never played more than six myself.
as a player in the group it can definatly be a downer, we can be right in the thick of battle as we were this past week with a Barbed Devil and they up and left, now they were not adding to the fight really anyways but still, I put so much time and effort into my character and his actions and his personallity usually shows, I was the warlock Stroud in the evil group and Now I am the Noble Pious Saint of Herionious, wow what a change :) I have been playing going on 15 years and I am fully capable of running multiple characters but I feel I cheat mine when doing so or that it takes a little somthing away, and its hard to play their characters when one is a druid another a wizard and I don't know if either had spells memorized it seemed they were pulling what ever was usefull at the time out of the book, but thats another issue, ok I have went on enough for now :) cheers all
as a player in the group it can definatly be a downer,
Then take it player to player. "The DM puts a lot of work into this game, and you guys leaving early really leaves us holding the bag (having to play your characters and all) and detracts from the whole game."
Or just refuse to play their characters in their absence.
Or, maybe the whole game takes place in The Matrix, but none of the characters knows that. When the player unplugs, the chaacter just vanishes.
Or give out Xp at the end of the session "Must be present to win" ;-)
For me I guess I'd rather go with a small consistant group than a large erratic one.
ASEO out
Really, I think in-game changes should not be the first priority.
Staying the whole game is a matter of respect; a matter of respect for your DM who wrote the adventure, the players who agreed to show up, etc. Most people are aware of the game time before hand. Would you take a job if you couldn't make the shifts? Would you take a class you couldn't show up for? No.
Talk to them. If they can make it, try to reschedule the game if everyone else can, otherwise I would let em go. I would rather have a small group that was very dedicated than a large group of slackers.
I personally had a 9-12 player group, and a lot of slackers and half-assers. I didn't care for that game as much as the two-man game where my players were dedicated.
Trying to fix the game for someone is not as good; if they knew they were going to have to leave early, THEY should have made arrangements.
You've got a lot of great tips here, Marc. Personally, I'd uninvite them kindly, meaning "When you all can stay for the entire session, I'd love to have you back."
Since you've never "uninvited" a player and the fact that you have FOURTEEN PLAYERS tells me that you have a strong aversion to having to perform the ugly, uncomfortable deed and probably have a hard time turning any players interested in your game away.
But in the interest of maintaining the quality of your game, you gotta do what you gotta do. So get it over with ;)
PS - My first time was with a very good friend that had some anger management issues and his flare ups in-game was about to send all of my other players packing because it just wasn't fun sitting around and watching the guy have a meltdown every time something bad happened to his PC. Since then, it's become much easier to ditch bad players. I'm happy to say that my current group is probably the best I've had.
Don't be afraid to implement some quality control in your game, especially if you have FOURTEEN PLAYERS!
Since you do have so many players, maybe you could, if you have time, split them into two groups for different nights. They could share the world and even occasionally cross paths. This may help the players that are leaving early.