Ok, I hate to be one to start a thread like this, but I'm curious...
What are people's favorite Necromancer Prestige classes in the following categories?
1. Arcane
2. Divine
3. Best for creating legions of undead followers
Please include comments and source document for the Prestige Classes.
ASEO out
1.) True Necromancer
2.) True Necromancer
3.) True Necromancer
:-)
In order for it to be really effective, you have to have levels in sorcerer/wizard and cleric.
Anything out of Libris Mortis is fantabulous. I have an NPC (who's on the player's side, fortunately for them) that's maxed out in True Necromancer and has the Necrotic Cyst feat for a truly nasty character.
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Hey, here's an idea. Why not just skip the prestige class and stick with a simple wizard who specializes in..gasp..necromancy! In the words of Mr. Reeves...Whoa!
Interestingly enough the True Necromancer (which is not just a wizard focusing on Necromancy spells) actually seems to fit the flavor and power that necromancers are often displayed as having. Necromancers as we often seem them portrayed are able to do things beyond just summoning a few undead. The truly twisted acts that can come from a devotion to the secrets of death are really well portrayed by the True Necromancer PrC.
Hey, here's an idea. Why not just skip the prestige class and stick with a simple wizard who specializes in..gasp..necromancy! In the words of Mr. Reeves...Whoa!Interestingly enough the True Necromancer (which is not just a wizard focusing on Necromancy spells) actually seems to fit the flavor and power that necromancers are often displayed as having. Necromancers as we often seem them portrayed are able to do things beyond just summoning a few undead. The truly twisted acts that can come from a devotion to the secrets of death are really well portrayed by the True Necromancer PrC.
Except at 13th level you've lost 5 full levels of spell progression from arcane and divine spells. The Fighter in the party has a cohort that casts more powerful magic than you.
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I would have to say divine spellcasters. That is if you want undead minions. You get animate undead, the create undeads, the power to rebuke/command undead, various feats to empower undead you create or add more to the undead you can controll, and some PrC that let you summon undead as a class power instead of using spells up (master of shrouds as an example)plus as everyone has mentioned, the true necro class
I have been allowing the necromancer in my game (see the ASEO's Campaign 2001-present thread in the campaign journal section...and pay no attention to the shameless shill making this post) to use the 'Skeleton' and 'Zombie' spells out of Mongooses Necromancer book. Those have been nice. What the player is looking for is a character who is surrounded with undead minions. Things like ‘Ghoul Touch’, and other flashy necromantic spells don't really do it. It is all about raising the dead for this character. ‘Control Undead’ and when the character gets high enough level, various create undead spells will come into play. The character is a Wizard, and has no faith in gods at all, despite seeing their clerics cast spells. Character is a grumpy power-hungry S.O.B set on ruling a realm of undead...and is on his way to doing just that.
ASEO out
I love the thought of the classic necromancer-villain, but for my homebrew, I tend to favor arcanist necromancers over clerics, despite the fact that clerics fill the role better. I'm interested in ways to increase the power of said arcanists over undeath. I was contemplating getting Libris Mortis for a while, but didn't. Now I think I will again.
Topic 1: Rebuke/command undead. Since we're talking about undead hordes, what makes them best, and the fact that the answer is clerics using rebuke/command, how long does command undead last? There is no duration listed in the PHB. I assume it's permanent. It seems that many villain clerics who use it have undead minions permanently enthralled, but it never says. It didn't really matter until I began recently began playing a necromancy-focused sorcerer/cleric of Wee Jas/mystic theurge.
Topic 2: Undead hordes. Since I haven't looked over the Libris Mortis, I'm wondering if the True Necromancer lets one create true armies of undead. Even with commanding undead, animate dead, create undead, ect., it seems that it is difficult to actually create an army of the dead. If the True Necromancer doesn't do it, what does? I thought about making an item that multiplied the number of undead one could control with things such as animate dead. Nothing like that exists already, does it?
I love the thought of the classic necromancer-villain, but for my homebrew, I tend to favor arcanist necromancers over clerics, despite the fact that clerics fill the role better. I'm interested in ways to increase the power of said arcanists over undeath. I was contemplating getting Libris Mortis for a while, but didn't. Now I think I will again.
Topic 1: Rebuke/command undead. Since we're talking about undead hordes, what makes them best, and the fact that the answer is clerics using rebuke/command, how long does command undead last? There is no duration listed in the PHB. I assume it's permanent. It seems that many villain clerics who use it have undead minions permanently enthralled, but it never says. It didn't really matter until I began recently began playing a necromancy-focused sorcerer/cleric of Wee Jas/mystic theurge.
Topic 2: Undead hordes. Since I haven't looked over the Libris Mortis, I'm wondering if the True Necromancer lets one create true armies of undead. Even with commanding undead, animate dead, create undead, ect., it seems that it is difficult to actually create an army of the dead. If the True Necromancer doesn't do it, what does? I thought about making an item that multiplied the number of undead one could control with things such as animate dead. Nothing like that exists already, does it?
To answer "Topic 2", the True Necromancer cannot command huge hordes. And, in my opinion, Libris Mortis was a little bit of a letdown.
WaterdhavianFlapjack
Topic 2: Undead hordes. Since I haven't looked over the Libris Mortis, I'm wondering if the True Necromancer lets one create true armies of undead. Even with commanding undead, animate dead, create undead, ect., it seems that it is difficult to actually create an army of the dead. If the True Necromancer doesn't do it, what does? I thought about making an item that multiplied the number of undead one could control with things such as animate dead. Nothing like that exists already, does it?
There is such an item in Libris Mortis, Rod fo Undead mastery which doubles the HD of undead you can control, from 4xlevel to 8xlevel.
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If you're after legions of undead minions then Liber Mortis has the "undead leadership" feat, which works just like the standard leadership feat except your followers tend to have somewhat slower metabolisms, with these not counting against your normal "control undead" quota.
As for other means of exerting control over hordes of corpses, remember that kings don't tell every last foot soldier what to do -- there is a chain of command to do that. Your necromancer-lord may be served by dozens of junior clerics and wizards who each control a dozen or so undead.
If you're an evil theocracy then low level clerics may abound. For example, if you're one of those lucky folks living in the Empire of Iuz then it's likely that being an ordained member of the church might improve your life expectancy significantly (in some regards at least), and if you're in the army it might be that a level or two of cleric is a requirement to be an officer. In these cases, even if you and your vampire cleric cohort can't command the army of a thousand walking corpses you desire, the less metabolically-challenged members of your staff can pick up the slack.
Personally I'd like to see a little more attention paid to necromancers who aren't (particularly) interested in undead, there seem to be plenty of undead related necromancy PrCs and very few others. Indeed liber mortis was almost entirely undead-related rather than death-related.
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Well "Libris Mortis" was supposed to be a book about the Undead (despite the poor title they choose). Just like Dragons and Abberations got their own book, Libris Mortis was supposed to describe the ecology, pschology, and anatomy (in a sense ;)) of the undead. The fact that necromancers show up in the book is only because of how they often cross paths with the main subjects of the book and thus they are only examined for their undead-related qualities.
I was a little let down by the Draconimicon, and Lords of Madness. That's why I was a bit hesitant about Libris Mortis. On the other hand, I do use a lot of undead, far more than dragons and abberations. So, is it worth the buy or not?
I was a little let down by the Draconimicon, and Lords of Madness. That's why I was a bit hesitant about Libris Mortis. On the other hand, I do use a lot of undead, far more than dragons and abberations. So, is it worth the buy or not?
Well I liked it, but I like liverwurst. So I guess its a matter of taste. Tell me what you liked and disliked about Lords of Madness and Draconimcon and maybe we can get a clearer picture of your tastes.
GGG
Draconomicon: Well, for one, I disliked all the prestige classes in Draconomicon. All the player PrCs felt underpowered, and I really didn't see the need for the dragon PrC's at all, or many of the items listed for the dragons. Some of them were just too powerful, and no dragon in his right mind would go without them, meaning that the party never just fights a dragon. They always fight a dragon with perfect maneuverability (with an item/feat combo), x4 critical on their bite (or something huge like that), and other odd things. Dragons are deadly enough as is. I also thought most of the spells were bad.
I did really like all the knew creatures, and the society/ecology, etc. of the dragons part, as well as the ready-to-play dragons in the back, and the additional rules clarifications about some dragon capabilities.
Lords of Madness: Now that I think about it, I just haven't used enough abberations. I was more impressed with this book than the Draconomicon, except that a lot of the detailed information about abberations given in the front clashes heavily with my homebrew, to the point that I have to disregard a large amount of it. That's just dumb luck, not a fault with the book.
Then there's ceremorphosis. This more or less goes along with my first point, but I'll mention it separately anyway. Was this introduced for the first time in the modern incarnation of the Fiend Folio, or does it go back farther? I really don't like it. I suppose it works as a creepy element, but the thought that all mind flayers are just transformed humanoids, and that they can be reverted, really rubs me the wrong way. I just find it dumb, myself. OTHERWISE... Lords of Madness is fine.
The one time I flipped through Libris Mortis, I didn't have a lot of time, but I believe I saw rules for undead PCs using rules presented in Savage Species. I personally dislike these rules. I don't like creatures "phasing into" their powers. I suppose it makes sense for a juvenile creature, but rules for juveniles of the standard races aren't given. Also, I saw they used this in the Planar Handbook; the one I remember was an avoral. I'm sorry, but I don't have baby angels. Outsiders are born, or more appropriately "made", in their fully formed stage in my campaigns, and you cannot "grow into them". I don't know how widespread this view is, but it seems to be the standard one presented in the core rulebooks to me.
I have the same view on undead. Now, maybe they have an ingame explanation for this? Undergoing a dark ritual or curse and slowly becoming an undead type? I seem to remember hearing about a PrC that did this with half-fiends once. I still don't like it (for undead- I think it's fine for templates, such as the Dragon Disciple giving half-dragon). Is the book largely focused on things like this? Or does it focus more on feats/spells/PrCs/creatures/detailed undead info? I'm not really looking for new rules about undead, just more options for the existing rules, as well as more info for flavor/descriptions.
It should also be noted again that I use undead a lot more than either dragons or abberations! I'm also running AoW right now, which as we all know, has a heavy focus on undead.
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Well "Libris Mortis" was supposed to be a book about the Undead (despite the poor title they choose).
True, I made assumptions originally based on the title; I still keep calling it Liber M. rather than Libris M., and whilst I can appreciate them opting for "L. Mortis" rather than "L. Mortuorum" as it's snappier if a little less appropriate, I can't understand why they chose "Libris M." over "Liber M." which not only sounds better but would be grammatically correct.
For those of you who've managed to avoid latin:
liber mortis == book of death
libris mortis == books of death
liber mortuorum == book of the dead
libris mortuorum == books of the dead
... ummm... I think!
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1.) True Necromancer
2.) True Necromancer
3.) True Necromancer:-)
In order for it to be really effective, you have to have levels in sorcerer/wizard and cleric.
Anything out of Libris Mortis is fantabulous. I have an NPC (who's on the player's side, fortunately for them) that's maxed out in True Necromancer and has the Necrotic Cyst feat for a truly nasty character.
I couldnt find the Necrotic Cyst feat. Perhaps i am blind but could you give me a location? Many thanks. Play on!
Thoth Amon
1.) True Necromancer
2.) True Necromancer
3.) True Necromancer:-)
In order for it to be really effective, you have to have levels in sorcerer/wizard and cleric.
Anything out of Libris Mortis is fantabulous. I have an NPC (who's on the player's side, fortunately for them) that's maxed out in True Necromancer and has the Necrotic Cyst feat for a truly nasty character.
I couldnt find the Necrotic Cyst feat. Perhaps i am blind but could you give me a location? Many thanks. Play on!
Thoth Amon
Necrotic Cyst is a spell in Libris Mortis... A series of spells are based off the cysts, which require having the feat 'Mother Cyst' Page 28 Libris Mortis.
whoever created the "cyst" feats....you poor poor designer...I hope that you don't have any cysts that inspired these spells.
I didn't really like it either. It seemed like a "Screw a player" feat that a DM might give an NPC Necromancer.
ASEO out
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Hey, here's an idea. Why not just skip the prestige class and stick with a simple wizard who specializes in..gasp..necromancy! In the words of Mr. Reeves...Whoa!
Hey man I agree with you, Im going to start playing a Necromancer soon as well and I personally think for a true Pathfinder game ( although there is some really good stuff out for 3.5) but just for Pathfinder that a wizard with the necromancer specialization is the best, that or a cleric, but clerics most definitively have to be evil lol could be fun. I like playing a CN wizard who acts like good old Wraistlin before he was evil and all cold and cynical but still able to adventure with other