Hey every one I'm Gonna be commencing the AP tomorrow night. With only two players. I'm in no way allowing them to run more than one PC. I think with a little boost and a good duo of classes it can be real fun i've ran small groups back in 2e( 1 & 2 player parties) but never in 3 or 3.5e. I was thinking of starting them at second level , also going to be using action ponts. one thing i'm worried about are the two Wind gaurdians. i was thinking of just having one but depending on how they level i might just leave em at two. Any one got advice on adjusting the adventure for a party of two or other Pc configurations. Though on the whole i'm excited about a Duo and I think it will be fun challenging and quite a nice change of pace from the default Healer/tank/nuker/skill user party we all know and love. Oh, I'm a huge F. Leiber fan.
Any help would be super appreciated.
Make 'em creepy twins and give 'em some kind of limited telepathy. It might be a unique fleshing out for their characters.
I wonder how linked minds might add a certain benefit towards team combat?
Eh, just a house rules idea. It doesn't do much to even out the challenges as the path progresses. Any small benefit gained probably won't gain in power despite the characters encountering greater and greater foes. It does add a little color though.
Anyway, good luck!
Well tommorrow night we'll be making characters. I'm gonna let them flesh out there characters backgrounds All that i will be forcing is that they are tied to diamond lake and will suggest likely connections based on their race and class. which will take awhile, I'm hoping we get as far as one of the sub dungeons or the land farmstead. I just want to give em a good boost from what i've read this adventure has some pretty tough encounters for a party of for 1st lvls i can imagine what it would be with just two I'm leaning toward handing them max HP for their hd's each level and starting them at 2nd lvl
Well tommorrow night we'll be making characters. I'm gonna let them flesh out there characters backgrounds All that i will be forcing is that they are tied to diamond lake and will suggest likely connections based on their race and class. which will take awhile, I'm hoping we get as far as one of the sub dungeons or the land farmstead. I just want to give em a good boost from what i've read this adventure has some pretty tough encounters for a party of for 1st lvls i can imagine what it would be with just two I'm leaning toward handing them max HP for their hd's each level and starting them at 2nd lvl
Well, when I have small parties I do the following house rules -
(1) Bring in a concept of "Background" Feats. These are feats that they can only take at first level. They are free and do things to not only help with the "flavor" of a PC, it also gives them a little boost.
Some BG feats sometimes give players access to skills or abilities that they would not normally have. Like for example - The Street Rat Background - Normally gives the player +2 to Slieght of Hand and +1 HP (since living in the streets can be tough).
If in your game I might instead state the Street Rat Background gave the character the ability to search for Traps like a Rogue, and +1 HP. This would be really overpowering in a normal game, but in a game like the above you mentioned I don't think it would be that big of a deal since you only have 2 PCs.
If you don't have BG Feats, well then I would let the PCs make their characters and then give em some perks based on the BG to do that.
Or just give em all the toughness feat for free in addition to the normal feats.
(2) Action Points all the way.
(3) Another alternative is to give them extra skill points. I think that is probably one of the things most lacking in small parties - not having all the skills you need to complete the adventure. I would suggest giving +2 Skill Points per level.
(4) Try to pick classes that can mulituse. I think multiclassing is a bad way to go. Having a party that is F/T and W/C half levels (or similar combos) is going to really blow at higher levels. They won't have the umph. So try to discourage the multiclassing and instead go for interesting variations on the existing Classes. Like Swashbuckler (which has some good skills) over Fighter. Or go for the Rogue Option which get fighter feats instead of sneak attack.
Another Variant on the above are clerics. If I had a two person party I would make it a Theif and a Cleric. Make the Cleric a cleric of Wee Jas with the Magic Domain, and give them plenty of scrolls and wands. While its a poor Wizard Subsitute its better than no wiz at all.
I take back my comment on multiclass - If I was only going to have a two person party I would do a F/T (more focused on T), and a Cleric of Wee Jas or Boccob.
(5)I think that starting at 2nd level loses some of the fun of the adventure. Instead I would scale back some of the baddies in the adventure. Make the Wolves a wild dog that escaped from town and is holed up there. Don't have the mad slasher - just have the beetle swarm.
Keep the elemental and ghoul - just make the cavern not completly submerged. Make the beetles either wounded, weak, or similar to class them back.
I think that should get you through the first part of the adventure.
(6) Get some hierlings! After the PC's get some gold in their hands - have them look for a hierling to fill the gap. The other fun thing is that you can have the hierling screw around with the PCs if things get boring.
Hope some of that helped?
Cheers,
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I might go with a Bard as one of the 2...or a Rogue through about 4 levels, to accumulate some skill points, then Wizard...I would play a straight Rogue through the whole thing, if I were a player...I love Rogues...I never heard of the variant mentioned, where Rogues can give up Sneak Attack, to get extra feats...that would rock
thanks lots of good stuff here. I like your idea of back ground feats and skill points. this should help a bit. Ditto on the submerged area i have it filled 10 ft deep thats allot of water in 20 high room plus the elemental will be free to and will try to drag them under the surface so the underwater suspense will not be lost.
Thanks for the info if anyone else has any other options/advice that would be great. I'll post how it goes
What does Erik think?
I might go with a Bard as one of the 2...or a Rogue through about 4 levels, to accumulate some skill points, then Wizard...I would play a straight Rogue through the whole thing, if I were a player...I love Rogues...I never heard of the variant mentioned, where Rogues can give up Sneak Attack, to get extra feats...that would rock
Grey Mouser:Rouge
Fafhrd: Bard(warrior poet,Skald)worked for them ;)
This is true...I would have to pound alot of skill points in Use Magic Device. Bards have CLW, CMW, CSW on their list, so you would have to make cure wands available...I think those 2 classes would work..might have to take a level in Wizard just to be able to use all arcane wands and scrolls.
MY 2c again - I would say no to the bard!
Bards are great for rounding out LARGE parties. But as an individual they are "Jack of all Trades, and pretty much such at each one".
Thier real niche is not one that really fills out a dungeon crawl or wilderness adventure. They are great supporters, sucky as main doers.
Again my Ideal Party for Two Person Would be:
Rogue or Rogue/Fighter With:
Cleric [specialised like Elven Cleric with War Domain or Wee Jas Cleric with Magic Domain - kind of like having UMD for free for wands and scrolls]
Paladin (interesting combo to justify I admit)
Swashbuckler
Wizard - allow the wizard to make d4 scrolls ahead of the game - consider getting a buckler or shield (you can alsways drop it if you need to have free hand to avoid spell penalties.
Barbarian with Track
Sorcerer - Trick him out with good social skills and let the Rogue bone up on athelic, and trap finding skills.
If you have a wizard go for halfing and load up on daggers, their small size really helps for wizards or go for a gnome - same thing. Dwarven anything are great for two people parties the Con bonus really helps em out, and for a single feat can be tricked out for a pretty good melee weapon.
Anyhoo just some other combos to consider
Note - Bards were not in the above list. Straight Fighters not in the above list. Bards because of argument above, straight fighters cause they are *too* focused.
As a side note in my home campaign I planning to play a solo game. But the adventures are geared to only having one person. I'm interested to hear how it turns out.
Well I have started a PbP with two players. The two classes I have going through the adventure are Ranger and Bard. I started them both at 1st level. I gave each one of them a background feat.
Ranger's Background Feat
Blooded (Background)
You know what it means to fight for your life, and the value of quick wits and quicker reactions when blades are bared and deadly spells chanted. Enemies find it difficult to catch you off guard.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on Initiative and a +2 bonus on all Spot checks.
Bard's Background Feat
Rhythmic Lore (Background)
You’ve learned numerous epic poems, timeless songs, and oral histories, gaining insight into Oerth’s history and magic.
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (arcane) checks. Also, when making a bardic knowledge check, roll 2d20 and ignore the lower result. Add a bonus equal to your bard level plus your intelligence modifier as normal.
I will also be heavily modifying the encounters in the cairn scaling stuff back a bit to help with survival through 1st level. I am also thinking about implementing some sort of Action Point system, just not too keen on the Eberron version.
Hope your game turns out well.
Biggest recommendation: Max hp at all levels. Otherwise the group will constantly be dropping below 0hp, and you as a DM will probably end up doing a bunch of "capture" scenes, or "unlikely rescues" by a random powerful benefactor (deus ex machina), both of which can really old quickly.
Secondary recommendation: Have the players buy hirelings/NPCs, a couple low-life goons who won't steal the spotlight; for example - a 1st lvl Warrior to stand in front like a tank (and die in dramatic fashion), and a 1st lvl Adept to stabilize the PCs when they fall unconscious.
My biggest recommendation is to get a few more players. I've never cared for small parties, personally. I think you need a good mix of characters to meet all challenges. But if you must, then you must... try starting them off at 2nd, or even 3rd level. They might breeze through a few encounters, but as the AP gets tougher, there's not likely much chance that a 2-person party will survive the adventure as written, without some significant power boost.
Start them out as 3rd level.
One should be a Rogue/Arcane Caster (I'd suggest a Rogue 1/Sorcerer 2. This gives you the rogue skills (take the rogue level as your first level) and then adds the magical firepower that a sorcerer provides. Alternatively, take the Warmage from Complete Arcane instead of the Sorcerer and you can wear light armor (IIRC) which will be fine with your Rogue class.)
The other should be a Fighter/Cleric (this one depends on whether you want feats or healing...Cleric 2/Fighter 1 gives you the armor, weapons, and healing. Cleric 1/Fighter 2 gives you the armor weapons and feats. With only 2 characters, the healing might be your better start, you can get that extra fighter level later)
This two party combo will give you the hard hitting, healing tank, and the missile/spell support backup.
Remember they are going to be getting a twice the Ex that they would being in a 4 person party, so they will go up in levels faster. This should keep their multi class levels about equal to what the adventure calls for in a four person party.
ASEO out.
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Start them out as 3rd level.
...
That's right! I have a group of two players as well, though I am not yet playing AoW. I made the experience, that if a level is written for 1st level pcs, my players should be at least second level, or even third to stand a chance and make your life as the DM easier, whitout having to adjust too much!
If no cleric is with the group keep in mind to stock them with potions. But don't make it too easy for them - give them a hint onyl one time, thereafter they should look for potions themselves...
Thanks for all the response on my querry . i feel pretty confident . the duo i'll be playing with is not my normal sunday group of Five. so it'll be a fun challenge from my normal games.
Hmmm. I would just start them off at 1st level, encourage them to multiclass ASAP, and halve all of the ELs and treasure. For example, take out the uber-wolf from the first encounter, take out the mad slasher, etc. Then see how it goes. Since you won't be reducing some encounters (like the CR 1 ones), they should get more experience each than a 4-person party and be a little higher level than a 4-person party would be by the end of the adventure (probably 4th level). Then you won't have to change as much.
You could use the gestalt option from Unearthed Arcana to help the pair function a little better.
You could use the gestalt option from Unearthed Arcana to help the pair function a little better.
I'm missing that book if you could fill me in on what exactly gestalt entails that would be rad. I've heard of it just don't have the book, I figure it may be similar to making the Pc way über
never mind i got the rules off of D20srd.org
Yes, Gestalt would have been my suggestion if someone hadn't beaten me to it. It works enormously well for a two-person party. One character should be a Gestalt Fighter/Cleric while the other is a Gestalt Rogue/Wizard. That would provide perfect parity in overall ability. You might also want to give them better than average ability scores. If you let them roll, do 5d6 (3 highest) or even 6d6 instead of 4d6. If a point buy, give them at least a 32 (although I hardly ever advocate a point buy). Allow them to start with max gold for the highest of either Gestalt class. You may also wish to give them a couple minor magic items to make things easier on them. A wand of cure light wounds with 10 charges will go a long way. At the very beginning, it might be a little rough, but I imagine after the first adventure they will be 2-3 levels ahead of the intended level for the campaign path, which should give them the edge they need to accomplish their tasks with such a small group.