Well, I just submitted a query and the nervousness of waiting has already set in. I was wondering what other people's experiences have been when submitting.
I was also wondering what people have been submitting..... Just out of curiousity. I, for instance, submitted an ecology article idea and two bazaar of the bizaare ideas.
Congratulations
The courage to submit an idea for publication is noteworthy.
To do next?
1) Continue to make notes on any article that might come from the query. I keep all my notes in a spiral-bound notebook. That way I have something to refer to in the between time.
2) Plan your next submission, whether it is to Dragon, or if you are embarking on a freelance career, other publications. The thing is, keep writing.
3) Because if you wait until you hear a response, you've lost time on your next submission. Keep planning, keep writing. It makes the time spent waiting go faster.
4) Be patient. Depending on the editor, where the publication is in its production schedule, and a number of other factors, it can take upwards to a month to hear back. It's usually quicker, sometimes within a day, but usually it takes awhile.
5) Be patient. Walk the dog, clean the drainpipes, play with the kids, go shopping, watcha movie ... basically live your life. Don't sit by the computer waiting, otherwise, you'll go crazy.
6) Play D&D. The best place for your next idea is gonna come from the game table. That's a guarantee.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the advice Troy.
I hate to admit it, but waiting by the computer takes up about 7 hours of my day. :( It's part of my job. Working on notes for those articles and others I may submit in the future is an ongoing process for me.
Thanks for the advice Troy.
I hate to admit it, but waiting by the computer takes up about 7 hours of my day. :( It's part of my job. Working on notes for those articles and others I may submit in the future is an ongoing process for me.
I'm with Troy on this one... I spent the month after submitting my first Dungeon query waiting. After a month (the specified time period to wait in the guidelines), I sent a reminder and found out (from a very prompt response, thanks James and Jeremy!) that they had a pile they probably wouldn't be able to look at until at least mid-late January. Taking some advice from some past threads on this board, I began working on other submissions. Over the past three months I've submitted three adventure queries, four campaign workbook articles, and a query with some Class Acts ideas for Dragon. I also have three more adventure query ideas that I don't feel are developed enough yet to send in.
That's not to say I haven't agonized waiting... but if I had waited for the first response (I've only had one, and it was - as most first queries are, I expect - a rejection) I might not have continued writing - that first rejection hurts. Now at least the rejection was for one of several ideas I have out there, rather than the only thing I had going. Ironically, it was one of my most recent queries that was rejected... the older ones I'm still waiting for responses on.There is a fair amount of agreement from the published folks on these boards that no news is good news. So keep writing!
- Ashavan
Well, I just submitted a query and the nervousness of waiting has already set in. I was wondering what other people's experiences have been when submitting.
btw... nervousness is normal. I get butterflies immediately following submitting anything new. Maybe that gets better after submitting regularly for a while... perhaps Troy or Medesha will enlighten us...
I was also wondering what people have been submitting..... Just out of curiousity. I, for instance, submitted an ecology article idea and two bazaar of the bizaare ideas.
My eight queries were (in very general terms):
- an adventure for 7th level characters (I found out later that this is the category of adventure James receives the most of)- an adventure for 2nd level characters
- an adventure for 4th level characters
- a Critical Threat based in the Greyhawk campaign setting
- a Critical Threat based in the Eberron campaign setting
- 2 Campaign Workbook: The City articles
- 3 brief ideas for Class Acts articles
I've focused on Campaign Workbook sections, since this is the area where the editors suggest it is easiest for new writers to break in (for Dungeon, at least). I will note that the vast majority of Campaign Workbook articles so far have been written by a small and relatively select group of folks, dominated particularly by Mike Mearls and Russell Brown. Fully 1/3 of all Campaign Workbook articles so far have been written by one of these two authors.
I've found it useful to keep a summary of the campaign workbook articles published so far, the authors, and a brief one line description of each article, so I can get a feel for what the editors are looking for. This is most difficult with Critical Threats, as only two have been published so far since the relaunch.
I keep a similar file for Class Acts articles.
- Ashavan
Nervousness get any better?
Sorry to say, not.
Writing is a process fueled by the bitter elixir of coffee, anxiety and ego (and liquor, if you're legal). Neither alka-seltzer nor pepto-bismol cures it.
Even seeing an article in print doesn't resolve one's stomach-churning, head-wracking nerves. It only inspires you to undertake another project, therefore subjecting yourself to another round of acid and misery.
Cheers!
Contributor
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btw... nervousness is normal. I get butterflies immediately following submitting anything new. Maybe that gets better after submitting regularly for a while... perhaps Troy or Medesha will enlighten us...
Like Troy said, the nervousness is just part of the experience.
The Dragon and Dungeon editorial staffs play by the same rules as other contributors, submitting a query, then a proposal (if we're lucky), and then finally the manuscript. It's pretty nerve-wracking to sit 10 feet away from the guys who will ultimately accept or reject your manuscript, let me tell you!
How do I keep the nerves at bay? Mostly I just alternate between pestering and sucking up to Jason and James, but I also ponder new queries and stare guiltily at the submissions that have already been accepted for Dungeon that I still need to write... ;D
and stare guiltily at the submissions that have already been accepted for Dungeon that I still need to write... ;D
slacker
:)
Nervousness get any better?
Sorry to say, not.
Writing is a process fueled by the bitter elixir of coffee, anxiety and ego (and liquor, if you're legal). Neither alka-seltzer nor pepto-bismol cures it.
Even seeing an article in print doesn't resolve one's stomach-churning, head-wracking nerves. It only inspires you to undertake another project, therefore subjecting yourself to another round of acid and misery.
Cheers!
Troy -
I find baking helps, at least temporarily... but then I have to eat what I've baked, and that decidedly doesn't. I end up feeling guilty, with the whole diet and everything.
If anyone HAS found something that helps (since I seem to be in good company) please let me know.
- Ashavan
I love coming into work every morning and checking these boards. Since I'm in England by the time I get into work ya'all have posted alot so I get some fun reading in. Reading the advice and experiences of the other posters definitely makes me feel better, not a lot but enough that it's worth it. Unfortunately, after I'm done reading the posts I have to wait tons of hours before any one else posts again.
I think I may try out an adventure article for Dungeon next, and possiblely rewrite up a prestige class or two I wrote a while back.
BTW is it worth resubmitting queries in the future, kinda retest the waters to see if any interest has been generated in the type of article you were writing?
BTW is it worth resubmitting queries in the future, kinda retest the waters to see if any interest has been generated in the type of article you were writing?
I've had an editor ask me to hold onto an idea and resubmit it in the future. Otherwise, though, I try not to recycle exact ideas.
Creative Director
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As a general rule, resubmitting articles is a bad idea unless an editor asks you to hold on to a proposal and resubmit later.
I know that if I recognize/remember a submission that comes in more than once after I've already rejected it, I get cranky and surly. And I'm less likely to accept proposals when in that frame of mind.
So my advice is, once an article is rejected, cut it loose and build up a new proposal and send it in.
New editors=new opportunities.
(and sometimes they change their minds too :) )
If I'm really intrigued by an idea and the relevent editor passes on my initial pitch I put it into my "someday" file and console myself with the thought that I can always try again later on.
It's best to keep an eye on the magazine though, cause sometimes they reject a pitch because they've already got something similar in development.
Nervousness is a constant, but there are degrees of it.
I'm most nervous when pitching to a new column I haven't written for yet. Sure I'm "published in Dragon", but there are lots of different departments within Dragon, and I've only gotten a foothold in two of them (Ecologies and Class Acts). So I'm a little nervous when pitching to them, but much more nervous when contemplating a feature or other department.
And there's a learning curve not just for the magazine, but for each department. I read a great book recently called "The Lie That Tells A Truth", all about fiction writing, and the author mentioned that novice writers often get discouraged when they read a 20-page short story by, say, Garcia Marquez, and then read their own short story and see how short it falls of the mark. "What they don't realize," the author writes, "is that Garcia Marquez wrote 200 pages to get those 20."
That's sort of how I feel about queries. Right now I'm at the point where I can email Mike four Class Acts ideas and be relatively certain that he'll like three of them. Recently, though, I sent Wes Schneider ten queries for Divine Inspiration/Spellcraft, and I only have a tentative maybe on one. Sure I was nervous when I sent that query, and sure I was hoping for more than one yes, but that's the price of admission to the magazine. You have to figure out what they want before you can pitch them ideas they'll buy, and sometimes the only way to figure out what they want is to pitch them ideas they don't want. When you do get an acceptance (it'll happen!), you're that much closer to being able to propose exactly what they want from the get-go.
But even then, you never really get complacent. Sure I might get eight acceptances off one query from Mike right now - but sooner or later the feature will expand, or develop in unexpected ways, or I'll use up all my "easy" pitches and have to work on more exciting and unusual ones. And all the nervousness comes rushing back.
The key thing to remember is that the editors are not rejecting you. They are rejecting your idea. And not because it's a crappy idea either (though it might be). They reject ideas because someone else beat you to it. Or because they did a lot of cleric articles lately and they don't want anymore. Or because they want lots of crunch right now and your article is fluff-heavy. Or because they want lots of fluff right now and your article is crunch-heavy. Or because they're tired of ninjas. Or because your article is about various dwarven ales and they have a hangover. You get the picture.
Wow, that was long. Hope it meant something to somebody!
-Amber S.
Hrmmm, I"m really gonna need to time my dwarven ales of the world article just right.....
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Contributor
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Or because they're tired of ninjas.
That'll never happen.
Or because your article is about various dwarven ales and they have a hangover.
Hrmmm, I'm really gonna need to time my dwarven ales of the world article just right....
I recommend avoiding Monday. Fridays probably aren't a good idea either. Yeah, and Tuesday... let's not go there. Hmm... Thursday might be--no, no, probably not. Oh, and let's avoid Wednesdays all together.
;D
I like to send Mike queries on a Monday.
I have no information to support this decision, other than a hunch that he starts the week in a good mood.
I'd like to think that he is refreshed from driving his truck around or hiking up Mount St. Helens or whereever he goes to clear his head over the weekend.
If it's a good week, I'll have at least one of the articles from the query submitted by Friday -- just in time for the process to begin again.
I figure it's better he read it on Monday than after he's had another character die in one of his mid-week D&D games. ;-( But then, Amber would know better than I, since she plays in the same Eberron game.
(From the "Jason Bulmahn DMs Eberron" thread, only slightly expanded:)
Mike: *tries to suck up to Jason and then looks dejected* "I know, I know. I still die first."
Me: "You already died first. You're going to die second, too."
Mike seems to be in a good mood whenever I see him. Honestly, all the guys at Paizo seem really enthusiastic and good-tempered. I don't see them "at work" or during crunch time or whatever, but I always get the impression that it's a really fun, hardworking crew.
I'm still not exactly sure how I wound up gaming with them. I'd met a few of them - Erik, Wes, and James - at GenCon last year, shortly after I'd sold Eco of the Duergar. Then last November I moved to Bellevue and emailed Mike and Wes asking if they'd like to go for lunch sometime (talk about nervousness in queries - nothing compared to my nervousness in sending a lunch invitation!) Long story short, they accepted, rest of the editorial staff showed up too, good time and ice-cream was had by all, Mike asked if I was looking for a game, I said yes, Mike said, "Hey Jason, can Amber play on Thursdays?", Jason said, "Yes, alright, quit bothering me you monkey," and thus I was ingratiated into the game.
I might have a few details wrong, but that's basically how it happened. :-)
I dunno, Amber ... sounds like you're working the staff pretty good. Ice Cream. Lunch. A little Eberron on the side. Rubbin' shoulders at GenCon.
Since you write such informative, interesting articles, I guess we'll give you a pass. For now, anyway. :-)
But if we find out that you're washing Mike's truck on the side, then we'll have to start razzin' you a little on your "queries."
(I'm joking of course:-))
^.^
If anything, getting to know the guys has made me paranoid about turning in quality stuff. I wouldn't want them to think I'm getting comfy and slacking. :-D
Also I play on Wednesdays, not Thursdays. I know my days of the week!
Man, I lived in Kent for ten years and never ended up meeting anyone. I might have seen them every once in a while as I worked at Excalibur in the southcenter mall, and they sell some interesting tidbitsthat might lure in the odd gamer (swords, knives, medieval stuff). But no 'ins' with the staff.
Now I'm in England.......hrmmm I could invite them to come vacation cheaply here.........
I haven't asked Amber to wash my truck yet. Yet. I'm still waiting for you to come visit for the truck washin', Troy. ;D
I've never been to Washington state, but I've heard it rains like every day there. (Well, at least it did in "Sleepless in Seattle"). Just leave the truck outside and let Mother Nature take care of things for you.
Then again, if you did that, then this running gag would come to an end, and we can't have that!
I find baking helps, at least temporarily... but then I have to eat what I've baked, and that decidedly doesn't. I end up feeling guilty, with the whole diet and everything.
Bake if it makes you feel good. Donate the baked goods. I guarantee there's a church or day-care in your community that would gratefully accept your goodies. That solves the diet problem.
For myself, I pull out the grill, grab a beer, tune the radio to a baseball or basketball game while I flame-broil my dinner. That and play with my two kids who love to help daddy cook by being my "taste-testers."
Taking up the cooking chores makes my wife happy, too.
The Dragon and Dungeon editorial staffs play by the same rules as other contributors, submitting a query, then a proposal (if we're lucky), and then finally the manuscript. It's pretty nerve-wracking to sit 10 feet away from the guys who will ultimately accept or reject your manuscript, let me tell you!
What?!? No quid pro quo? What about bribes? No wink-wink, nudge-nudge?
No?
Now I get it. (Knocks hand against forehead) You guys have ethics!
How refreshing for a publishing company.
The best way to get over the 'submission blues' is to have a healthy amount of contempt for the magazine staff. That way, when you get rejected, you can blame their incompetence rather than your own :D
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I might have seen them every once in a while as I worked at Excalibur in the southcenter mall, and they sell some interesting tidbitsthat might lure in the odd gamer (swords, knives, medieval stuff). But no 'ins' with the staff.
The second campaign I ever joined at WotC featured Todd Lockwood, me, Sean Glenn, and others including a woman who managed that very store, so you were a lot closer than you thought!
Bummer about having to live in Kent for a decade, though. I lived in neighboring Renton for five years, and it almost killed me.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
Even better than the debilitating nausea of waiting for a reply is the 10-minute cursing binge at the magazine staff on everything from their heritage to their hair-dos when you get a rejection in the mail (or e-mail as it is now). Ah, good times.
Erik and James, I meant almost none of those things I said about you.
Greg -
You mean I'm supposed to indulge in that cursing binge! Feh.
Oh well. If you and Richard Pett hadn't gotten me to keep writing instead of waiting, I would have been doing more than curse. As it is, now I have seven proposals still sitting in a pile somewhere causing me nausea instead of one.
Though after the rejection a cursing binge might have been cathartic.
- Ashavan
They'll probably hit you with a "yes" on all seven at once with a 3-week deadline. Then you can enjoy the nightly drowning-in-stomach-acid sensation. :-)
The cursing binge is kinda' fun anyway, though.
Four of the seven are campaign workbook articles, so those at least would only require revision. The other three... yeah, that could be stressful. Somehow preferable to the deadly waiting nausea, but still stressful.
- Ashavan
I forgot to mention the euphoria when you get an acceptance response, so it's definitely worth it. I wish I knew a good answer on how to deal with the stress. I guess it's just the angst that comes with being a writer. I'm sure Mr. Grisham or Mr. McMurtry probably know a trick or two (and I'd certainly love to hear them), but I haven't seen them on the boards much. Though I think ASEO might be Tom Clancy...hmmm...
By the way, if you do get those submissions accepted (fingers crossed) what name should we look for them under...Ashavan, Koldoon, or something else?
Greg -
Ashavan is, believe it or not, my real first name, as in the one on my birth certificate. My brother's first name is similarly unusual.
Koldoon is just a long time online moniker.
- Ashavan
I forgot to mention the euphoria when you get an acceptance response, so it's definitely worth it.
This is so true. When I got the e-mail from Mike about the sorcerer class act article that's in 330, I was giddy for a week.
More than a week if you ask me. :p
More than a week if you ask me. :p
No one asked you, so hush. :P
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Contributor
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The best way to get over the 'submission blues' is to have a healthy amount of contempt for the magazine staff. That way, when you get rejected, you can blame their incompetence rather than your own :D
Hey now, no peeking behind the curtain! ;)
And Troy, the strange thing about Washington rain is that it gets cars dirtier over time, not cleaner. It's all that mud on the roads and whatnot. ;D
Hey now, no peeking behind the curtain! ;)
My hat for yuo now no limit!
strange thing about Washington rain is that it gets cars dirtier over time, not cleaner. It's all that mud on the roads and whatnot. ;D
Mud on the road? The roads out there aren't paved? No wonder you drive a truck. >:-0
(YOu guys must really need some of that money from the massive highway bill Congress just passed.)
The second campaign I ever joined at WotC featured Todd Lockwood, me, Sean Glenn, and others including a woman who managed that very store, so you were a lot closer than you thought!
Bummer about having to live in Kent for a decade, though. I lived in neighboring Renton for five years, and it almost killed me.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
Carina? I worked with her for nearly ten years and never knew that she actually had an interest in playing D&D. Man, I am a social recluse, my wife is right.
I found that the best way to deal with the depressing state of affairs in Kent was to join the SCA so I could hit people with sticks. Very Cathartic!
Would have written back sooner, but just got off a two week vacation through England, Wales, and Scotland. I think that's going to be my method of dealing with the anxiety of waiting, I'll go and visit real life castles.
Whew!
Done.
After today, I will have submitted 10 Campaign Workbook Articles, and 10 Adventure Queries, plus a daily post on the 1,000 Adventure Ideas messageboard. All are currently in the "hopper" so to speak. I'm nervous of course, but fairly confindent I will receive my 19 rejections soon.
Wait - did I say 19? Here's hoping... :)
One thing I've learned so far is that idea generation is a constant, as long as I continue to write it down.
If I don't write it down, I'll just end up chewing on the same ideas over and over again... it's made for some interesting long term campaign ideas, but no short term adventures.
My lesson out of all this? Write write write. . . and don't ever stop...
I'm going to see if I can get 20 of each before I hear back from Dungeon...
:)
Good show, Chris! And good luck!
Chris -
That's a prodigious amount of queries! Good show. I just got up the confidence to submit a new query to Dragon, my first since I got that first rejection. Now I think I'm going to try to pull together that high level adventure query my husband and I have been mulling over. After that, Campaign Workbooks here I come!
- Ashavan
Wow Chris:
That's an incredible amount of work.
Keep writing.
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Contributor
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Mud on the road? The roads out there aren't paved? No wonder you drive a truck. >:-0
So regardless of whatever else you think of it, California has some of the nicest roads on the West Coast. I love driving in Northern California. It's a state of drivers, so they take good care of their roads. Oregon is the polar opposite. Washington is somewhere in between, but closer to Oregon. Our roads are not well maintained.
But I digress. :)
... But I digress. :)
You? Digress??? Neeeevvvvvvveeeeeerrrrrrrr....
;)
/gigz
Founder of the m.k.mcartor Fanclub
Mike has a fanclub?
Can I join?
Is there an initiation fee? Does it go to cover the funeral costs for Ninjas PCs who perish adventuring in Greyhawk?
Thanks for the encouragement, guys. It's been fun so far, and I think my fiancee is finally starting to come around (she was a little peeved at first by my hours of computer gazing). Now, she's thinking of submitting something as well. . .
Incidentally, if anyone's truck needs a-washing... I won't be able to do it long distance. On the other hand, I DO live in Indianapolis, so if anyone on staff wants to stay at my place for GenCon, free of charge . . .
I just hope y'all like back-breaking couches and a complementary ramen-noodle breakfast.
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Director of Games
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Thanks for the encouragement, guys. It's been fun so far, and I think my fiancee is finally starting to come around (she was a little peeved at first by my hours of computer gazing). Now, she's thinking of submitting something as well. . .
Incidentally, if anyone's truck needs a-washing... I won't be able to do it long distance. On the other hand, I DO live in Indianapolis, so if anyone on staff wants to stay at my place for GenCon, free of charge . . .
I just hope y'all like back-breaking couches and a complementary ramen-noodle breakfast.
Ohh.. sounds tempting.. do you also have a cat that tries to steal your breath as you sleep.. or maybe a dog that bites eyelids... :-)
Some querry responses will be sent out soon.