Dodge stacks, but not if its caused by the same ability.
This isn't an actual change, it's a clarification. It's clearly how it already works at just about everyone's table, and in the intent of the rules. They just need to make that clearer.
+1, Or they can state that dodge bonuses from the same source dont stack :)
I ask everyone to answer to this :
Is it logical to let a Red Mantis Assassin use his Red Shroud ability multiple times to get stacking dodge AC ?
People who say that dodge bonus from same source stack have this in mind : at 20 lvl and twf with haste on him a rogue has 7 attacks, in a flanking situation when 3 attacks hit he gains 30 dodge bonus to AC.... And thats if only 3 attacks hit.... Compared to anything else (ok almost everything else) this thing is annoying and has a chance (if all his attacks hit) to give 70 dodge bonus to AC....
Balance? noooo..... Really searching for this kind of loopholes is when the munchkin disease begins, and its spreading and there is no saving throw vs it
I dont think Paizo wanted this to happen and i'm sure a new official answer/errata or something will solve this.
off-topic:
thepuregamer wrote:
well they gotta be because their main ability is pretty situational and they are one of 2 non-casters(rogues and monks) who do not get help in the act of hitting. I find people utilize their munchkining powers most when they are trying to maximize the potential of suboptimal classes.
Their main ability for what? Damage? Plz explain it to me because i think that rogue's and monk's role is not the damage dealing thing, they are far better used for their utility abilities as some kind of support.
The typical 4 member party consists of a Priest, a Wizard, a Fighter and a Rogue. And guess what ? Rogue is not in it for the damage....
To play the second (or first for some) most versatile and utility class in the game just for the sneak attack its a waste of time, the party is at -1 member if you do this.
But thats me again, and me maybe am weird or something
It's in the general Bonus rules on p. 208 of the Core Book. Specifically, it's stated repeatedly that Bonuses from the same source never stack, not even when they're untyped. So it's not a rule about Dodge bonuses, but bonuses in general.
+1 i was searching this you found it good job, but still some will refuse to accept this because it comes from the magic category.
stringburka wrote:
Haste provides a +1 dodge bonus for the whole party. Do you think you can pop of half a wand before the BBEG for a +25 AC/reflex bonus for everyone? That's far easier to abuse, methinks.
haste description specifically states that does not stack if used multiple times
Guys in page 208 of the Core, as Deadmanwalking said, states :
Bonus Types:
Usually, a bonus has a type that indicates
how the spell grants the bonus. The important aspect of
bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don’t
generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses,
most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the
better bonus of a given type works (see Combining Magical
Effects). The same principle applies to penalties—a
character taking two or more penalties of the same type
applies only the worst one, although most penalties have
no type and thus always stack. Bonuses without a type
always stack, unless they are from the same source.
I take that that dodge bonuses stack from different sources but not the same. Its really logical to me and the last sentence supersedes everything.
If dodge bonuses from same sources stack then a Red Mantis Assassin with +5 Con modifier can use her Red Shroud ability 5 times and gain 25 dodge bonus..... But i dont recal anyone bringing this up cause it was pretty obvius that dodge bonuses from the same source do not stack.
The whole "dodge stacking thing" came from the ability
Offensive defense:
When a rogue with this talent hits a creature with a melee attack that deals sneak attack damage, the rogue gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC for each sneak attack die rolled for 1 round.
and excuse me for that i dont wanna be rude or offensive, but rogue players (at least my rogue players) tend to be a little... you know... munchkins...
Me as a DM would never allowed this, not because its overpowered but because it does not make sense (to me again)
I might have missed it, but has anybody brought up the "bonuses from the same source never stack" thing yet? So the rogue won't get this bonus more than once.
He gets the dodge bonus to AC only once, dodge bonuses from same abilities/skills/sources dont stack, but stack from different ones.
Bobson you reminded of Grom Hardfist my ascetic dwarf monk who became a saint for his goodness and the purity of his soul.
12 lvl monk with saint template and ALL the vows (yes the non fighting too :D) the result was (if i'm not mistaken) +/- 60 with super overpowered (non leathal ) damage and all kind of maneuvres. He could spank cr 16+ creatures ALONE ...
Thats what happens when you let 3.x staff come into play without first balance them. The saint template is really powerful one and has only 2 lvl adjustment. In the other hand the vow of poverty compaired to the money and equipment that one should have by the same levels is weak (yes weak).
So Silencedhands the answer to your question is YES they stack, but you should try rebalance the level adjustment and the abilities that the saint template offers. And in order to became a saint is not the easiest thing. It has some requirments and i doubt that the player have met them. The book of exalted deeds (as well as the book of vile darkness) is for really experienced players, players that give a shit about alignment and decisions and DMs that completely comprehend the concept of the books. To qualify for sainthood the PC must fullfil the requirements in chapter 2 of BoED.
And with all due respect for the GM, I actually encouraged him to use the Bestiary dragons rather than those in the module. I thought it would save him a lot of conversion work.
I had no idea they would be significantly more powerful. He told me the one in the module was CR 20 so I naturally assumed we were getting a break against the Bestiary dragons (I have not seen the stats for the one in the module).
Really there is no problem with that, but the DM must adjust the party in such a way that they are able to hurt her at least. I'm sure after you adress your concerns to the DM (and he listens) the campaign will be much more fun to play.
wraithstrike wrote:
I do think the dragon in this case, assuming he is faithful to the module, should be beyond the party's means to defeat. I think the issue, according to spoilers I have read, is that he has edited the module either intentionally or on purpose, or you have left out information from the story accidentally.
If he was faithful to the whole module everything that I mentioned wouldn't be conceived as spoiler :).
Spoiler:
Also the Dragon can be confronted and even killed by the PCs, she is a unique Red Dragon that is powerful but made in such a way that at least you have a chance when you meet her, she has more HP so the battle lasts longer and the PCs get a more epic feeling and her spells modified in such a way that she could not break all possible combos to deafet her, not just a simple beastiary BBE monster.
Hate and love relationship, i have with optimization.
As mentioned before me optimization is subjective. Obviously you play this kind of games in order to shine in a specific field (be it magic use/martial art).
Everyone - others in greater degree than other - use this term even if they deny it. Making all your fighters with 18 Str 16 Con dumping all the time Cha is optimization. Same goes to little wizards. Why all these iconic-Gandalf-like-abra-katabra-dudes have 8-9 str? (at least at the games i'm the DM).
But this kind of optimization is kind of "necesary" and easy to explain : The fighter after many battles and blood he has seen in his life has become less social and keeps things for himself, not to mention the scars he "won" from the war with the orcs. In the other hand the skinny wizard was sitting on his desk for many years, and under the light of the candle the only thing he did was reading these tomes. He spend so many days inside that he turned pale and he may even have light-sensitivity :D.
Once in a campaign (i was a player then and the game was M&M), one member of my party optimized his character to be the nemesis of a fellow party member. All he could do was to negate his abilities and slap him all the time. Thats the bad optimization, that drives both players and DMs crazy.Characters like an orc barbarian with 22str,18 con, 16 dex, 7 wis, 5 int, 5 cha ...
As i said before the DM has bad sense of balance, the original Red Dragon a CR 20 creature has 33 AC and 24 SR and up to 5th lvl Spells vs 8 players of 9 lvl each (or 4 players 11 lvl each),while the Dragon that the DM is using is a CR 19 (by Pathfinder rules) who has 38AC and 30 SR and up to 7th lvl Spells vs 4(?!?) lvl 10 players (and only one of these 4 is suggested, not that this is a bad thing, but the original party had a milion times more chances of confronding her)
Also at this time of the campaign the Red Dragon has no business with the PCs (except they visited her place, also highly unlikely because they dont even know the High Clerist Tower, oups "spoiler")
Spoiler? Sry I forgot that the DM forgot to introduce the PCs to some important NPCs who are supposed to give information to the party - and even accompany them - information that even without meeting these NPCs the party should have heard (Diplomancy, Knowledge, Invistigating - Gather Information)
I'm really sry for not being polite, but..........
Skeleton and Skeleton Champion has been discused in the past too.
The skeleton template makes the base creature just an undead, removing all abilities/feats/powers or whatever it has and gains the Undead traits.
The skeleton champion for me has nothing to do with the skeleton template, and adding a +1 from the skeleton template is just laughable.
According to Hero Lab a 14lvl fighter is CR 13, with the Skeleton template is CR 9 while with the Skeleton Champion is CR 15 (14lvl + 2HD = 16lvl). And I fully support this.
As for applying the skeeleton champion template to a Dragon, I've done this in a session one day and I was really disappointed with the result. The next session I applied the Skeleton Champion to a evil 18lvl Paladin (before APG) who was a Lich's bodyguard and master of the dragon. The results ? The Paladin's "theoritical" CR was 19-20(mediocre equipement) while the true CR was over 22 (he was immune to everything that had a saving throw, he had all his pre-undead abilities/powers, he had Cha mod to HP, and against his Smite foe he was like Chuck Norris vs a punny mortal :D)
So from that day when I calcualate CR I take into account everything that a template offers.This is one of the few things that Pathfinders has holes, the precise calculation of CR (especialy when racial HD, monstrous races and templates are included)
I have (and continue to) actively skip over your post because it appears to be chock full of spoilers.
From what little bit I was unfortunate enough to glance at in passing, however, we have not done any of what you describe. Had you read the thread more closely, you should already be aware that we are headed to the far south to recover an anti-dragon orb artifact. You would also be aware that I did not want any spoilers (as I have not played through the modules nor have I read the novels).
Are you kidding me? The only "spoiler" is the mentioning of the High Clerist Tower and even for that i doubt. If you thought that everything was a spoiler your DM runs very badly the campaign or he runs the campaign with no sense of balance (i believe both of them having read the module). Also i read the previous posts carefully but the scene with the refugees is before the attack of the Blue Dragons at the Red Dragon Inn. Finally you could be more cooperative and told me at least the books you are allowed to use....
But lets see what can you do and what you cant :
I take for granted that the dragon attacks alone, otherwise there is no chance to win. Also that all players have all their spells/abilities/powers available meaning that you all have rested. Finally I assume that only Pathfinder stuff is used.
Before combat the party must get buffed. Enlarge person magus, overland flight wizard, fly to magus and ninja, haste to all, greater invisibility to all (this will be countered but it may work for 1-2 rounds), stoneskin to magus, protection from energy or resist energy magus, protection from evil to all, displacement or blur to magus. If you could cast heroism it would be great.
Magus with those buffs should have against the dragon with his +3 Dragonbane, Icy Burst Waraxe and Arcane Accuracy, Arcane Pool wielded Two-Handed:
7(base)+5(str)-1(size)+7(arcane accuracy)+1(haste)+3(weapon enchantment) +2(dragonbane property)+2(from flank)+1(weapon focus)= +27/+22 to hit for [2d6+7(str)+3(enchantment)+2(dragonbane)]+1d6cold(icy burst)+2d6(dragonbane)= (2d6+12)+2d6+1d6cold
The magus is the only one possible of inflicting damage to the dragon with these builds, as both ninja and monk can only hit with a 20 on the dice.
Ninja and monk go as soon as possible near to the dragon while invisible and you cast web with the two ends attached to them or better attach the web to dragon's wings(they will pass the saving throw with ease but the dragon may fail, thus becoming grapled). Your role after that should be to cast enervation or touch of idiocy until you pass the spell resistance. Ninja and monk try to hit, and magus goes for the flank bonus to hit for sure almost 50%+ of the time.
With these builds and abilities/feats/powers its the only thing that may damage the dragon, and that for about 2-3 rounds when he will cast see invisibility or even worse antimagic field and then he wipes out all of you.
Tell you DM to read carefully the campaign because the conversion of anything from 3.x to Pathfinder might ruin the balance. And specifically your DM is really harsh with his players. Speak with him and tell him to use the original dragon for the encounters.
Have a nice session, gl hf
best regards, wild_captain (and really sry for any spoilers)
In order to continue the suggestions I must know at which point of the campaign are you . Have you found/recovered the dragonlances or the dragon orbs? Have you visited the Knights of Solamnia ? Have you gone to the High Clerist Tower ? Can you tell me if the Red Dragon is the female Harkiel the Bender as it is described in the module or converted to a CR 19 Red Dragon by the Pathfinder Rules? And last tell me precisely what books are allowed for play
In case you didn't see or read my last post i quoted the things that need explanation. Again i eagerly wait for an answer :)
It took a while to read some of the module. Lets begin
First of all, the module is designed for eight (8) players of nine(9) level each which in a classic four (4) member party of a figher, wizard, cleric, rogue translates into eleven(11) level each. (This is taken from the introduction of the module)
1) So the first thing that must be done is that you and your three (3) friends advance your characters to 11 level
Second, the module clearly states what kind of heroes are good for the adventure, and suggests some archetypes that are similar to some classes. Clearly a magus or a ninja is not stated (and even though they are good and fun classes for RP, i cant say with confidence that they are suitable for this adventure)
2) Convince your fellow party members to play a more "classical"/suitable class preferably one of those suggested in the introduction of the module. (personally i suggest that the party should be of a Fighter, a Wizard, a Cleric and a Rogue)
In order to continue the suggestions I must know at which point of the campaign are you . Have you found/recovered the dragonlances or the dragon orbs? Have you visited the Knights of Solamnia ? Have you gone to the High Clerist Tower ? Can you tell me if the Red Dragon is the female Harkiel the Bender as it is described in the module or converted to a CR 19 Red Dragon by the Pathfinder Rules? And last tell me precisely what books are allowed for play
Dragons of Winter is not a simple hack'n'slash adventure and must be played well - from both sides (DM and players)- the DM must be well informed of all things that can happen and narrate the story without forgeting special events which play important role to the ongoing of the story, and players in the other hand must be creative and know when to fight or when to retreat, when to ask for assistance and when act alone.
From what I've read from the previous posts you mention the blue dragons that destroyed the Red Dragon Inn and then you bring up the refugees and their "rescue".
I really want to help you there (i've been in similar difficult situations that needed special "quest" events/items/triggers in order that we had a chance. In good played campaigns rarely the "charge vs all tactic" have any good results). I speak both as a humble, persecuted, unfortunate player and as a seasoned and "cruel" DM
Hi from Greece Ravingdork. I've read about your situation and I could suggest some ways to beat that Red Dragon but i must know your party members . If you could post the characters would be great (or just pm me the stats/abilities/feats/gear)
A quick advice is to get use anti-scrying magic until you find greater magic items (with frost or icy burst,dragon-bane,holy, axiomatic weapons - maybe an artifact in a forgotten temple or the hoard of a mighty creature - you can inflict great amounts of damage, or even find unique artifacts that have very special abilities -immunity to fire, immunity to frightful presence etc)
I'll try to find the stats of the creature and post again later. But as i said before i need to know everything of the party members too.
So you want to include the critical factor too, right? What does your dm allow for pcs? is templates allowed for playing? monster races?
You character is martial based or do you want magic (arcane or divine) levels to?
Who is going to give you the true strike? because it has a range of personal. Give us a better view of what you are thinking and we will offer you with tons of ideas and variations :D
Yes indeed, and even if we took the to-hit penalty with Furius Focus the Orc Fighter has +44 to hit for 378 critical, or +41 for 430+, or +39 for 480+ which is still pretty high for one hit every round.
From the other classes one that i liked for one hit without taking into consideration critical chances, surprisingly, is a hybrid of unexpected classes.
(note i dont have the books with me when i write this but will try to be as accurate as i can)
with the feral mutagen and mutagen abilities which give +8alchenical bonus to str, the one that grants you the effects of englarge person, the one that grants your attacks size increase. With the feats power attack and improved natural attack, with amulet of mighty fists (vicius,frost,flaming,shock,corosive), enchantement on his bite attack +5, vital strike(all the build) he attacks and damages like this :
4d6+21(str)+5(ench)+10(power att.)+6d6(amulet)+12d6(vital) = 113
(pretty good for an attack that doesnt get 1.5x Str bonus to his dmg neither 1.5x Power Attack, and its 3/4 BaB class)
when i go home i'll post the most damaging hit without crit chances
Without taking criticals and mounts into account as dear Mr.Nice Guy asked, the two handed-fighter is the best one hit dmg (beacause of the critical bug). Other classes are pretty close and i will post 2-3 examples later
Strength 38 (18 base+4 racial+6 belt+5 from advancing+5 from manual)
Feats Power Attack, w.spec + gr.w.spec,bleeding crit,furious focus)
Weapon +5 Flaming,Frost,Shock,Corosive,Vicius Scythe
to hit : 20+14+2+4+5-5 =44
every round he uses devastating blow,auto-hits and he threats a crit but with his capstone abity the threat is alweay confirmed as a crit. so every round he crits for:
[2d4+28(str)+24(power attack)+4(Weapon & Gr. Specialization)+ 5(weapon enchantment)+ 4(weapon training)]x5 + 6d6 (from Vicius,frost,flaming,shock,corosive) +2d6(bleeding crit)=70x5+21+7=378dmg every round
thats the best and most stable non-magic dmg dealer at level 20
(with some other parameters this can go up to an average of 430,5 with a +41 to hit)
edit (with the insane things i saw you added,adding those to the Orc his average dmg output could reach 480+)
I'm glad i've helped you. You see i really love the game both as a DM and a player (even if i have to play dnd or pathfinder as a player for over 1 year or so), and i like to see other people ideas
Hi there. I read your post and i found some mistakes. How can Dex modifier go +12? base 15 + 2 racial + 4 from levels + 6 from item = 27 DEX which gives you +8 mod,and even with tome of +5 Dex it goes up to 32 for a +11 modifier, so your AC will be 43(46 with tome). Also piranha strike can not be used with your scimitar because scimitar is one-handed weapon and piranha strike requires light weapons. Finally your dmg is 1d6+13(+23 vs living creatures not immune to critical hits)
Now i suggest a build : Human 6 free hand fighter(apg)/3 rogue/1 shadowdancer/10 duelist
You get Elusive(+2 Dodge to AC), Singleton(+1 Dmg & Attack roll) and Deceptive Strike(+2 Disarm CMB & CMD, +2 Bluff to feint) abilities from fighter and as bonus feats get Dodge, Mobility, W.Focus & W.Specialization Scimitar
from rogue you get SA +2d6, trap sense +1 , trapfinding, evasion, finesse rogue
from shadowdancer you get HiPS
from duelist you get all the abilities it offers
nice feat selection from levels is : toughness, iron will, combat expertise, stealthy, skill focus stealth, improved disarm, greater disarm, dervish dance, improved critical scimitar, critical focus, bleeding critical
Gear : +5 scimitar, +8 bracers of armor, +5 amulet of NA, +5 Ring of Protection, +5 cloak of resistance, Belt of Physical Might Con & Dex +6, Headband of Mental Superiority +6
Waffle_Neutral thats right by RAW. But CR is determined with the stats when the creature becomes skeleton. The drop class HD and treat the skeleton as an one HD creature is for control undead and similar abilities that count HD for their effect to take place. Its a matter of DM and sense of balance he has.
As for sorcerer yes its pretty powerful as it is for paladin, bard, oracle and all charisma-based spellcasters. But even for others think that a warrior can be optimized to have(base stats) : 18 str, 16 dex, 7 con, 10 int, 7 wis, 16 cha = powergaming
The change with racial HD,level adjustment and CR is a bit furstrating. The only way to truly judge a template or something similar is to compare it to something that gives the same or near similar abilities to that. Consult your DM and before applying anything talk how it will work.
Gaining mind-affecting immunity is a God-like ability but again situational (your campaign could be only hack'n'slash with orc barbarians)
but nevertheless its very useful ability and in long term it will benefit a character much more than a creature because tha character will be played again and again (till he dies) for many session while the undead foe will be dead at the end of the battle.
The Skeletal Champion template is a really powerful one and it raises CR by +2. A 14th human sorcerer has CR 13, with this template her CR goes to 15.(undead traits, charisma mod to hp - yes dumb constitution, darkvision, immunity to cold, and +2 str & dex, and +2 d8 HD)
Also, the same sorcerer with just the skeleton template has CR 9 and not 6 as Stringburka said. The table in p.250 of the Beastiary -as many other thing in Pathfinder- is a bad copy-paste from 3.5 MM p.226
As for Zurai, yes you are right but take into consideration that Dragons are the best creatures in the game by stats/abilities/saves/bab/HD and applying to them the skeleton, skeletal champion template or generally turning them into undead would be OP if no penalties were occuring. Yes their armor class drops by a very high amount as does their Hit Points(undeads got nerfed a lot in pathfinder, fine from me they where OP) but they gain undead immunities and thats a pretty nice thing i think. If you want your Ancient's White Dragon AC to remain the same apply the Lich tempate :D (my favorite dragonlich)
Generally, speaking as DM i suggest that before applying templates look at the abilities the template offers to understand an realise the real CR.
Finally i suggest to apply skeletal champion template to martial classes where it really shines. Especially to an evil paladin or with the APG to the anti-paladin
B) Your list is a series of broken thoughts and musings that I can kind of decipher, but nowhere does it give me a build, a character idea, or something concrete to work off of.
C) I think you are giving us build advice in your first three dashes, but it is kinda hard to tell, I mean, you do start off complaining about the APG variants.
D) You also seem to be talking to yourself. I mean, you have "You'll" written in as if talking to a third party, its kinda weird.
E) Your coup-de-grace, after giving us very little to work with, is "can you help me?" This is like me saying "You (meaning me) don't like leaves, but they grow on trees, but you have to use fire..so how do I dig a pit?"
+oo
Doc Cosmic wrote:
From what I can tell, you kinda sorta want to play a monk, but not really, but you have to because of the prestige class, so you are trying some feats that sorta don't work so you were hoping we had some ideas.
My suggestion: Tell us exactly what you see your character doing, and then we can offer up some suggestions after that.
PS - messageboards are a place for people to get together and discuss things, much like a party. This thread is a side conversation at that party, and sometimes we talk about stuff you are interested in, and sometimes we talk about items to make sure we are all on the same page so that we can answer the question you pose. It happens. If we had suddenly started talking about the virtues of duck hunting, then yes, you could be upset, but that isn't the case. So now that you have our attention, and we are all on the same page, gives us a clear goal of what you want to build, without all the clutter of feats, spells, and backwards compatable 3.x material.
Oh my fault really sry Mergy, I thought you meant the monk had quilified for all these feats from first lvl like Doc Cosmic did. Again I apologize.
For the stunning fist (and all similar abilities): to use them is not a standard action as correctly Mergy quoted.
As for the scythe-monk if your DM allows 3.x stuff there is a f@$*ing awesome(a little OP)5 level prestige class for monks that specializes in scythes but i cant remember the name .... Also there is Death Incarnate, Whirling Reaper and Acolyte of the Scythe, all very good prestige classes.
About the Macedonian Phalanx : the shield Macedonians Phalanx soldiers (Μακεδόν& ;#949;ς Φαλαγγί& #964;ες) used was a kind of a large buckler (originally called όπλον->οπ λίτης and in english hoplites=hoplon users ), giving them less protection than the shields the other Greek Hoplites where using, but leaving their off-hand free for wielding the really(i mean really) long spear called σάρισσα wich was 6.5-7.4m long.
In PF RPG spear-like weapons are not even close to these numbers, and to possibly use a Macedonian Spear would require feats like monkey's grip or size large :D. So use a buckler and hold any two-handed weapon. I think there are a few 3.x stuff that lets you gain the shield bonus to AC from a buckler even if you attack with an off-hand or a two-handed weapon
Here comes the genre of the player I hate most when I DM : THE POWER GAMER
Mergy i think you are one of them, so beware the Order Of The Anti-PGs because they are bloodthirsty beasts who will annihilate this Power Gaming Cult, and everyone else with it will be burned and thrown to the Pit Of Munchkins
That's one of the problems of copy-paste......(3.x copy-> PF RPG paste)
The B is the correct answer
As for Power Attack how can you wield a two-handed weapon with one hand?(with the exception of phalanx fighting) And even if you could why add +50% dmg when you attack with only the one hand? These typos are remnants of an old and glorius era :)
Before I make my suggestion I will say a few things. Obviously you have nothing in your mind about the character you want to play, a thing that's too bad because you will not have something to connect to your character.(best characters are those who you are really interested in ROLE-PLAYING, plain stats mean nothing from my experience). With these stats you could play any class you want but have in mind that some classes -like fighter,wizard,sorcerer,druid- could easily be played with much lower stats. So i recommend a class who really needs those awesome stats you rolled.
1)full class rogue or full class monk or full class bard
2)rogue/red mantis assassin or fighter/red mantis assassin
1) The advantage that still magic users have vs all the others at high(mid+) levels ( especially in a low magic/magic items setting)
2) The sorcerer vs wizard thing (fixed with the APG but only for human sorcerers)
3) The Barbarian class gets 1d12 hp instead of 2d6 hp and their pathetic (at 65% percentage) rage powers ( fixed in some way with the APG)
4) There should be cross-class skills (the +3 bonus on class skills is just rediculous, made rogues and bards with their infinite class skills and skill points just having a mehhh +3 bonus on them)
5) The increase on HD to wizard, sorcerer, rogue etc. Why not give that increase on the other classes too? (note that this increase in the case of wizard and sorcerer is quite large)
6) The fact that still some classes can be viable with 1 or 2 ablity scores (fighter, barbarian, nearly all magic users) while some others in order to be close (not even equal) have to increase at least 3 or 4 of them (monk,red mantis assassin, and some builds of other classes as inquisitor, paladin, summoner etc.)
7) When someone will show mercy and give some love to the monk ? (a fighter can outmatch him even in the Combat Maneuver thing)
8) The lack of Level Adjustment for some races. For GODS SHAKE a drow noble in the beastiary is advancing by class levels when it should have at least +3 level adjustment (SR, Spell-like abilities, Stats)and the only thing CoreRB says is if a players plays a race like that the rest should start at a +1 level..... . CR just dont cant be used effectively for all cases
9) The rediculous half-orc race.....(fixed in a way with APG but even with that they are still the most useless race compared to the other)
10) Some rules/things that are just a copy paste from 3.x books, while those rules/things should have been re-written to match the new (very cool and unique ideas) rules.
11) The bad habbit of power-playing that much players have and the fact that PF RPG offers quite a few opportunities for power-gaming (blame goes 10% to PF and 90% to players)
12) I consume quite a lot of time for this game ( ITS F%+~ING ADDICTIVE :)
The good thing is that most of the bad things (not only those 12) can be solved by the DM and the help of the DMG (not only PF DMG :D), its very fun to play and the staff in PAIZO tries a lot to balance and add new stuff to this awesome 3.75 game
To a fighter or a ranger the lvl behund might not mean so much. But what about a cleric or a sorcerer? And if your players need so desparate one or two extra feats give them for completing some kind of quest or by playing right their characters. Everything in the game is DM's desicions :D
Guys you still dont undestand the situation. First of all no medium character can wield a large two-handed weapon. He can wield a medium two-handed weapon. The large scimitar is a medium two-handed weapon OR a large one-handed weapon. The medium character can not wield any weapon as a weapon of his size if its large or small.
So in the case the human fighter can not in any way wield a large pole-arm
because the new size category is large two-handed not medium two-handed
Also he can not wield a small dagger because now it's small light weapon not medium light weapon.
BUT the large scimitar is a medium two-handed weapon so he can wield it with his two hands but he can not in any way hold it in one hand and fight because when he do so the weapon is not for his size.
Also larger weapons held by smaller creatures have the creatures reach and not weapon's size reach.
Hope i made it clear.Now to support the RAW or the RAI is in everyone's judgement
Now why to take the -2 penalty while the large scimitar is now a two-handed weapon rather than one-hande for a medium character? Does he take the penalty when he wield it with two hands?
SRD Inappropriately Sized Weapons:
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.
Compare this large scimitar to the closest weapon it can be compared the falchion. Scimitar 1d8 18-20/x2 while the Falchion does 2d4 18-20/x2 so its better in terms of damage.
In my original question i mean how can he take a penalty while he is wielding a two-handed weapon with his two hands? It just dont make sense. Think that the scimitar which originally is a one-handed weapon now becomes large scimitar that for medium characters becomes a two-handed weapon.
i)Glitterdust with a very good perception check,ii)Invisibility Purge, iii)Arcane Sight, iv)Greater Dispel Magic v) Something i didnt find out or thought of in these 5 minutes i wrote this post
i) Glitterdust (All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades. Each round at the end of their turn blinded creatures may attempt new saving throws to end the blindness effect. Any creature covered by the dust takes a -40 penalty on Stealth checks.)
So the mage is outlined so visible to all
ii)Invisibility Purge (You surround yourself with a sphere of power with a radius of 5 feet per caster level that negates all forms of invisibility.Anything invisible becomes visible while in the area.)
So a 10 lvl priest has 50ft radius of invisibility purge. Pretty good
iii)Arcane Sight {requires holding,wearing or wielding a magical item} (This spell makes your eyes glow blue and allows you to see magical auras within 120 feet of you. The effect is similar to that of a detect magic spell, but arcane sight does not require concentration and discerns aura location and power more quickly.)
It does not gather information so it bypasses Mind Blank even if it is Divination spell
iv) Greater Dispel Magic (This spell functions like dispel magic, except that it can end more than one spell on a target and it can be used to target multiple creatures.Area Dispel: When greater dispel magic is used in this way, the spell affects everything within a 20-foot-radius burst. Roll one dispel check and apply that check to each creature in the area, as if targeted by dispel magic. For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, apply the dispel check as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel.)
One of my favorite spell in the game, one of the best utility spells.
v) Yes there are always some abilities, feats, skills, powers, traits,spells or things under the right circumstances that counter something else that someone thought of it to be "OMFG thats superf@%!ingcool OP combo/ability "
Last but not least think that these spells are all much lower lvl than mind blank exept Gr.Dispel, and by the time you can cast an 8 lvl spell what disallows a hostile mage to do so ?
Both of you Freesword and Wraithstrike are right. The damage for throwing the slaver : 2d10+str mod with a -4 to attack roll, and reflex saving throw for half if he wanted to let him fall, or 30 feet maximum range.
As for the fly part. I asked for fly check because lifting a fighter in Banded Mail with Heavy Steel Shield and a Battleaxe is no easy job to do while flying. He answered that he can do so beacause he has an innate ability to fly.
I could do anything but continue playing with the rest party
Well if he is not a friend then kick his ass to the curb... maybe toss in a curb stomp if he gets lippy. :)
Hahaha. Really good option but i stopped kicking ass two years ago. :D
The fact is that one of the other three is a friend of mine and told me come to meet to guys who wanna play the game. I went there and the other two where normal guys polite, friendly and social. I accepted to be the DM almost instantly. And then my friend tells me of a forth player who knows DnD and wants to learn Pathfinder. The rest is already known.
I just refused to be again the DM with the "drow". I dont tolerate this kind of behaviour from nobody not even my closest and dearest friend or girlfriend. Yelling and screaming is just an immature way of expressing one's feelings or disapointment.
The session went bad. The player finally agreed to play with the rules and rolled the stats. He rolled pretty well 17,16,14,12,11,10 and i was happy we where going to play. Then the shock comes. I ask him what race and class does he have in mind and i tell him that with these stats he could play anything in a very good level. His response : "I dont like what i rolled, for that reason i'll play a half-celestial drow noble monk" . I told him "The drow noble has a level adjustment +3 (from DnD is +3) and the half-celestial +3 (i made it +3 the moment he told me his intention, in DnD it is +5 ), so your character will start 1 lvl monk half celestial drow noble while the rest party will be 7 lvl and face encounters and problems for 7 lvl party". He told me "i dont care i can perfectly stand up to these problems".
Ok i said and the campaign started. After about a hour the party is ambushed by some slavers and the Half-Celestial Drow Noble Monk (with 14 hp and 23 AC, 20 str,25 dex,20 con, 12 int, 22 wisdom, 16 cha) uses his race SP ability suggestion to one of them and tells him to stand still in order hug him. The spell succeeds and the drow graps him and starts flying (feathers from half-celestial) and then he tells me that because he had taken the feat throw everything he throws the slaver to one other slaver and he throwed him from 60 feet expecting that both slavers would take 6d6 falling damage plus the damage that the improvised weapon (the slaver!) would do....
I looked him and told me that this i doesnt work exactly like this. His response "The feat is called THROW ANYTHING, so i grab ANYTHING I WANT and throw it ANYWHERE I WANT" (caps for screaming). One of the players a very experienced DM tells him that i have right, but the Drow keeps on yelling about cheating him...
The result was that he gave up playing saying he could do nothing to help the party and at the next encounter he simply sat on a rock and was looking at the fight.
EDIT: Wild, you already said you expect possible future problems, I would cut your losses and ask the other players if they know someone else who'd like to play.
Hahahah :D i already thought of this but all are gone to another city, and in about a month or two i'll be there too.
Thank you all for your help, the session is today i'll how it goes and inform you . Thx again
I dont care about the stats he rolled, but the decision to do this alone while the others where with me, and the reaction to what i said.
I really want that player in the party (he is very experienced, and i could learn a lot about the game and DMing with such players)But his temperance and inability to play by the rules is what bothered me.
Thx a lot guys. i think i'll try to convice him , and i'll talk to the others to help him understand how important is to play by the rules. If that wont work then the solution is a 3 player party
I'm running a game with 4 players and i talked with them and they agreed to roll stats. When they rolled they where 3 because the forth was working. After an hour the forth player came and he said he rolled stats and showed them to me. OMFG the stats where 17,17,16,16,15,12 and i said nice but as with other players i wanted him to roll in front of me. He then started screaming and yelling because i dint trusted him.(he plays dnd 16 years he is 32 years old, but he plays only rogue from back then and a friend of mine who was DMing a game with him told me that the same happened to his game with the stats thing.)
I think this happens because of my relative young age (21) compared to his years of experience. The other players are quiet on the matter but i think this behaviour of the rogue player shows lack of respect to the rules, the other players and the DM , and i'm sure more problems will come in the near future.
Should i be patient with this kind of players ? I tried to talk to him but he doesnt seem to hear me..... What should i do?
1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ.
Now i dont know why but Inquisitor's ability Slayer is of no use. In the beta it was an awesome ability letting you get the max bonus from the start of the combat but now whats its use? Judgements grant bonuses depending your level and no the rounds you use them so Slayer is an absolute 0. I recommend that it should be changed to something that at least would be of some use.
My apologies if i am wrong (which i dont think so cause if i'm wrong then the judgements increase with levels AND with rounds and then that's OP)
How could the developers miss that? I would really like to see an official answer here.
Many judgements state that they give +1 to something and then +1 for every some levels you posses. Does this mean that the starting +1 stacks with the +1 given at later levels?
For example Justice gives +1 sacred bonus to Att.Roll and +1 for every five levels of inquisitor you have. Does this mean that at when the inquisitor is 10 level his justice bonus is +3?
So you are saying it allows you to hide in the open, but you can't stay in the open?
Obviously. Soon as you hide, you are no longer not hiding and therefore your ability to hide while being observed becomes null and you automatically unhide!
I know it took me a while to get back, but that makes sense. I will keep that in mind.
Your sarcasm detector is broken.
So is yours.
If ONLY you had Darkvision then you'd AUTOMATICALLY know when someone was being sarcastic. Only within 60' though.
+1 xaxaxaaxxaxaax
But for the HIPS : the fact tha someone has darkvision negates the concealment that a shadowdancer might had inside the shadows or dim light (no difference in pathfinder terminology) but does NOT negates shadowdancer's ability to make a stealth check. The "darkvisioner" still has to make the perception check to see the shadowdancer.
A further example is shadowdancer's 10th level ability Shadow Master
Shadow Master (Su)
At 10th level, whenever a shadowdancer is in an area of dim light, she gains DR 10/— and a +2 luck bonus on all saving throws. In addition, whenever she successfully scores a critical hit against a foe who is in an area of dim light, that foe is blinded for 1d6 rounds.
If a "darkvisioner" is there does this means that the shadowdancer does not gain these bonuses? No i dont think so, he just doesnt have the concealment from the shadows.
Does a familiar gain feats? Do it's saves increase?
Can i have a familiar then take the leadership feat and advance the familiar as my cohort ?
Basically i would like (if anyone could) tell me how the familiars are supposed to work because compared to the bonded item they seem pretty less usefull.
