wargod's page

We're having some issues with figuring out the creation rules
can someone tell me what the caster level needs to be to create boneless leather armor?

And please tell me how they came up with the number.
Is it just 9, 3 times the caster lvl?

Thx

If a creature successfully grapples a creature, and is now has the grappled condition can it attack other creatures or can it only attack the creature it has grappled?

This may have been answered before but i could't find it.

I it possible to wear enchanted guantlets (Say +1 flaming) and then your unarmed strikes be magical?

I was thinking how cool it would be for say that spiffy new brawler class we got coming down the pipe..

I'm not worried about AoO when closing to him I can tumble through his threatened square usually

Lots of good advice here, I think sundering his weapon is looking good.

I don't have to worry about AoO from that because if i'm all up in his grill he can't attack me with a reach weapon right ?

Hey there are lots of threads on how to make a tripper build, but I was wondering if there was a way to counter that trip build?

I'm playing a Aldori sword lord, and want to know how to deal with a guy who's got a reach trip weapon..

any advice?

Can you use dex bonus in place of str bonus for CMB when disarming if you have the weapon finesse feat?

Have you guys checked out the SORD PF System Operational Reference Digest
For The Pathfinder Role Playing Game.

Lots of good stuff in there about perception, stealth, and Invisibility.

I was just looking through rules for the beginners box, and I know the there are some differences, but it backs up my view of how invisibility works.

To pinpoint an invisible creature, DC = stealth +20

What do you use stealth for? To keep from getting NOTICED. So if you are invisible and stealthing (trying to be extra quiet) then it would be much harder to notice you are even there because one of your senses(sight) is taken out of the equation.

OK, so you know he cast invisibility. You still don't know he is there. Maybe he cast it and then teleported or just ran out of the room. Just because you saw or noticed him once doesn't take away the need to keep seeing if he is actually there.

Ok what if i'm wizard and i just made a potion of invisibility, an now I order my zombie to drink the potion and stand still while I walk across the room and start throwing darts at the him?? Do I still need to wonder if the zombie is still in the room?? Do I need to notice that there is an invisible creature in the room?? Nope I Know he's there, the D20 notice roll is not necessary. If I then order the zombie to move 10 feet in a random direction and then stop, I now need to make a DC 20 perception check to pinpoint him, if I fail that check the next round the DC will be 40 because he has stopped moving.

Day 2 of invisibility experiment (this wizard is kinda nuts)

I brew another potion of invisibility. I then order my goblin valet into the room and shut the door behind him, I know that he's just a 1st level commoner with no magical ability to teleport. I then have him drink the potion and move around the room trying to be as quiet as he can whilst I throw darts at him. He has no ranks in stealth, but he gets +4 for being a goblin and 2 from dex, giving him a +6 to his stealth check, he rolls a 10 giving him a 16 +20 for being invisible making the DC 36 to pinpoint him while he his moving. I now tell him to stop moving, he makes another stealth roll, gets a 10 again I now have to roll a 56 on my perception in order to pinpoint him! A 1st lvl goblin commoner that's practically impossible to pinpoint...

20 DC to notice. If stealthed add stealth roll +20. so lets say the stealth roll was a 20 (rolled 10 with +10 stealth) so that would be +40 making it 60 DC to notice a stealthed invisible creature. And that's just to know he's there. Add +20 to that if you want to pinpoint him, making it 80 DC. On top of that, even if you pinpoint where he is it is still a 50% miss chance on any targeted attack.

Wow, no the notice roll is never Higher then DC 20.

If he gets a 20 on his stealth roll, its DC 20 to notice, DC 40 to pinpoint (DC 60 if he doesn't move)

The idea that there is a difference between pinpointing a creature if A. you are in total darkness B. you are blind or C. the creature is Invisible
makes no sense, its all the same and the rules should be identical.

I'm still not convinced that the notice roll and the roll to pinpoint are not separate rolls. it only seems logical to me because of the wording.

Also folks keep talking about potions, but what about spells. If i'm a wizard and I watch you cast invisibility I know you are now invisible, the notice roll is not necessary. I now can attempt to pinpoint you, if you stand still and do not use stealth its a DC 40, which is very high that's why they say its practically impossible, 40 is not a low DC, a creature would need a +20 on their perception check to achieve this, most creatures 10th lvl or lower wont be able to hit that DC.

Now if the use stealth they add 20 the total and it becomes even harder, even if they roll only a 10 that's DC 50, hitting a DC 50 on a skill check is no easy task. If your perception check is getting up into the +20s then an invisible creature isn't that big a deal to you.

Lets deconstruct this mother.

If your a 10th level druid with a 20 wisdom (+5 to perception checks) and 10 (+3 for it being a class skill) ranks in perception that means he's gotta +18 to his D20 roll with a max possibility of 38, That means he has a zero chance to pinpoint an invisible creature that doesn't move. Of course he could have magic items to give him a perception boost, be that's neither here nor there..

whats my point? Its this, after 10th level or so, you cant expect invisibility to be all that great anymore. However let us all not forget that regardless of pinpoint or no, a invisible creature still receives the 50% miss chance.

Grick wrote:

Using your interpretation, you need to get a 15 or higher on your stealth check, before adding the +20 bonus from invisibility, or else it's actually easier to pinpoint you than if you weren't trying to be sneaky at all.

You say this as if its some esoteric interpretation of the rules. "According to me" is looking at the table and reading the line that says "Using Stealth — Stealth Check +20".

Grick wrote:

That doesn't say "DC 20" it says "+20 DC". Add twenty to the DC. What DC?

The DC to notice a creature normally with Perception. Noticing a visible creature in is DC 0. Noticing a creature 30 feet away is DC 3, etc etc.

Which means spotting an invisible creature who is moving at half speed but not using Stealth should be DC 15...

Trying to use the table you are referring to without taking into account the Stealth skill is vastly inaccurate. Stealth takes into account armor check penalties while your straight DC 35 check does not. It gets even more ridiculous when you take into account size as a Gargantuan creature is just as difficult to pinpoint as a Tiny creature.

Using the Stealth skill is clearly within the rules and is vastly more accurate than what you suggest, you are basically inventing a whole new system.

Preach!

The table on page 102 under perception might shed some further light on this.

As a point of comparison, here are the rules for perceiving targets while blind because of darkness:

Darkness wrote:

A creature blinded by darkness can make a Perception check as a free action each round in order to locate foes (DC equal to opponents' Stealth checks). A successful check lets a blinded character hear an unseen creature “over there somewhere.” It's almost impossible to pinpoint the location of an unseen creature. A Perception check that beats the DC by 20 reveals the unseen creature's square

If the same rogue with the same Stealth check (10 on the die +7 ranks in stealth) is in complete darkness it's a DC 17 to know that he's there and an effective DC 37 to pinpoint the square (add modifiers for distances greater than 10').

So, there's your answer. If the rogue drinks a potion of invisibility, close your eyes and pinpoint the square.

Carry on.

Yes yes, excellent find my friend.

I believe this confirms my argument on the +20 debate.

wargod wrote:

I'll say it again there is no base DC that you then build on to pinpoint a creature.

Then what is the +20 being applied to?

"It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check."

That doesn't say "DC 20" it says "+20 DC". Add twenty to the DC. What DC?

A stealth check or any other perception check the DM might require is the answer to your question.

Let me ask you this, acording to your interpritation of the rules is there a situation where a creature would not recieve the +20 to pinpoint on top of the stealth +20? If not why under stealth does it not say " you receive a +60 to your stealth or a +40 if you move? Why did they feel the need to seperate the bonuses?
Could it possible be that they are the same bonus and you are adding them twice?

I'm sorry Grick, I don't agree with you. I think the initial DC 20 perception check just to notice that something is amiss or afoot is a separate check.

the "creature is" table has rules for different situations. If you are invisible (DC 20 for me to gain a hunch something is there) but you are "In combat or speaking" there is a -20 to the dc which makes it 0, I know there is something there I can hear it.

"It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check." it doesn't say "the perception check" it says "a perception check"

I'll say it again there is no base DC that you then build on to pinpoint a creature. At this point if a creature wants to hide from the other creature that now knows something is there because it spoke or was in combat it needs to make a stealth check for which it receives a +40 for being invisible or +20 if it moves. Its a straight up stealth VS. perception.

If he rolled a 16 on his d20, and has no stealth modifier, then the result of that check is a 36, resulting in a final DC to pinpoint of 71.

This dc is outrageous, someone would need a +51 to their perception in order to pinpoint them, I haven't found a single creature or NPC with a perception this high, thats not "practically impossible" thats impossible . Furthermore as I have stated I saw him drink the potion, becoming invisible doesn't make the universe oblivious to your existence I dont need to notice or gain a hunch that something is there, I know he was there I know there was someone there and know he gone, there is no mystery.

Also it states under stealth "You can move up to half your normal speed and use Stealth at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty" so why does it say under the "creature is" table -5 for moving at half speed? If i was not invisible and using stealth and moving at half speed I take no -5 to my stealth check, but if i turn invisible and move at half my speed I now have a -5 penalty??? That's because those movement penalties under "creature is" table are for creatures not using stealth. This is when the "It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check." comes into play. This +20 is used when the Dm calls for you to pinpoint an invisible creature when a creature is hampered be some environmental effects that require a perception check, you dont get to add this to your stealth check.

But none of that matters once a creature decides to use stealth while invisible, he gets a +20 to his stealth check or a +40 if he doesn't move. Whatever his stealth check is +20 is the dc for the perception check to pinpoint him (+40 if he doesn't move :P)

Example

A rogue wants to sneak past a 1st 1 level warrior town guard (+3 perception), he drinks a potion of Invisibility makes a stealth check and walks past moving at half speed (10 on the die +7 ranks in stealth, +20 for being invisible =37. Dm rolls a perception check for the guard to notice, he needs a 18 or better to even notice that something is there (+3 perception). Lets say he rolls a 19 and gets a total of 21 "eh , who's there?" now he makes a perception check to try and pinpoint the source, this is vs. the rogue's stealth check, since he only has a +3 to his perception he has no hope of success, Dm doesn't even roll "must of been the wind". Rogue slips past guard no problem..

The DC 20 'hunch' is just that, a hunch something is up. If someone is trying to sneak past you invisible, you have a change of noticing them.

The table is confusing, the easiest way to resolve it is simply have the invisible creature make a Stealth check with a +20 DC bonus (this is even noted in the rules for invisibility). Then just apply all the normal bonuses and penalties to Stealth.

This is what i'm saying.

So on round 1 I roll a 20 on my peception so I "gain a hunch somethings there" but can't pinpoint it, on round 2 I search again I have to gain "a hunch" that something is there again. That doesn't make sense, my hunch doesn't go away.
Nevermind that to my knowledge skill checks are pass/fail, I dont believe you can gain a partial success.

I really wish paizo would clarify all this, its causing issue on my game.

People keep throwing the words "base dc" around, nowhere on srd does it say the word "base" there is no base DC. There is just a DC 20 perception check to gain a hunch that somethings there.

As far as the whole I dont know what kinda potion it was, if its a spell a simple spellcraft will reveal what spell was cast.

I appreciate your oppinion Grick, however I fundamentally disagree with you.

If I just watched someone drink a potion and the turn invisible, I dont need to notice them I know he's there I just cant see him anymore, I dont need to rely on hunches
Furthermore, I think you are adding the +20 twice. The +20 in the text is the same +20 in the table for "stealth +20".

Has there been a definitive definition of how invisibility works by the paizo folks?

I know there are conflicting opinions on the boards. Here's how I think it works.

"A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check."

This means if you walk into a room and an invisible creature is moving around in the room its a DC 20 to think "hmm there's something weird going on here" and this is a roll that maybe should be made behind the DM screen.

Now once you have determined that there is something in the room (say a zombie that some wizard has made invisible then tasked it to walk in a circle)and it is not using stealth you must pinpoint it. This is a perception check that the player makes.

"It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check."

Since it is not using stealth to try and hide, the Dc to pinpoint it is 0, +20 for being invisible, making the DC 20

However none of this has anything to do with a creature making himself invisible and then using stealth during combat. If i watch a rogue drink a potion and then disappear I don't need a "hunch" that something weird is going on. The DC to find the rogue is now his stealth check +20, he gains another +20 if he doesn't move.

Example time!

Round 1: Rogue drinks a potion of invisibility uses stealth and doesn't move. DC to pinpoint him is his Stealth check +40.

Round 2: Rogue using stealth(still invisible)now walks across room. Dc to pinpoint him Stealth check +20.

There are other mitigating circumstance based off the the "invisible creature is" table. here's one.

Round 3: Rogue using stealth (still invisible) walks across room and attacks someone. Dc to pinpoint is just his stealth check. he has +20 for being invisible and a -20 for being in combat.

Thoughts?

Hey I got a question.

Where do Baba Yaga's daughters come from? I mean who is her baby daddy?

Also if there just human women, why do the live so long...?
I know there Jadwiga or whatevs but it don't say they live any longer.

If this has been answered please let me know where.

Thx