talast's page

1) No, you only gain armor or weapon specialization if something says you do. Most classes that are not dedicated spellcasters have some access to critical specialization, but how they do it varies wildly (Champions only get it by choosing Blessed Armament, Rangers only get it against their hunted prey, barbarians only get it while raging, while swashbucklers have access to it with any weapon they have expert proficiency). Armor specialization is pretty rare. I think Fighter and Champion are the only released classes to get it without an archetype, although it was available to both of the classes in the Battle Cry playtest.

2) There is no shield proficiency. Anyone can use the raise a shield action, wizards, monks, etc. included. The shield block feat only enables you to use the shield block reaction.

Thank you very much

Hi all, new to 2e. Only started on reading the rules so far. I got some questions I hope you guys can clarify for me. It's derived from reading the fighter class and other martial classes:

The fighter's weapon and armor proficiency advancement section both listed the fighter can apply weapon critical effects and armor specialization effects. But I don't see this listed in a good number of other classes. I.e. Exemplar class. Is it assumed that if you are at least expert, you can apply those effects or you don't get them unless your class specifically stated so?

The Exemplar class listed light/medium and unarmored proficiency. But not shield. Yet it starts with a shield block ability. Is it assumed that if you have some kind of armor proficiency, you are also proficient in shield?

Thanks in advance.

talast wrote:

the channel energy doesn't stack right?

I will have to look into the VMC thing for Paladin/Oracle. Never really fully read up on the VMC rule other than the saves and BaBs.

VMC trades out half your feats for specific features from a particular class (and also prevents you from multiclassing normally into that class). Oracle (and a couple of others), also has a choice to be made at 1st level. In the case of VMC oracle, it's what mystery and curse you're going to go with.

Lv1: Pick a feat (power attack or fey foundling, both if human). Choose the Life Mystery. Pick a curse, your effective oracle level for the curse will be equal to 1/2 your overall level.

Lv3: You don't get a feat this level. Choose a revelation available to your mystery. Here's where you pick up Life Link. Your effective oracle level for this mystery equals your total level -6 (min 1). After 7th level you'll be gaining one addition life link per level.

Lv7: No feat this level. You pick a 0 level spell from the cleric/oracle list and can cast it at will, using Cha as your casting stat for it. Moving on.

Lv11: No feat this level. Add 5 to your effective oracle level for the effects of your curse. By this point you can support 5 life links at a time.

Lv15: No feat this level. Choose another revelation.

Lv19: No feat this level. Choose another revelation.

The advantages of going mono-paladin VMC oracle are that your LoH and smites scale up faster, at the cost of not having multiple life links until mid levels.

thank you for the breakdown. this looks very viable.

Ok so the way that works is this: You take 3-4 levels of Oracle (LIFE MYSTERY) to get Life Link and a Channel Energy pool (1 + CHA). You use Life Link so on your allies so that at the beginning of every turn your allies are each healed 5hp and you take the damage that they were healed.

Then you use your Lay on Hands from being a Paladin to heal that damage. It's not about having stacking abilities, it's about having synergistic abilities.

Your Channel Energy pools won't stack, but in a way that's a blessing: If you take the HOSPITALER archetype you get another channel pool (3 + CHA). This means at character level 7 (Paladin 4, Oracle 3) you'd have 2 X CHA + 4 channels per day. They wouldn't be healing much each (worthless really) but if you get yourself at least one MEDITATION CRYSTAL you can convert those useless Channels into more Lay on Hands uses.

In order to get the most out of this, you want to take FEY FFOUNDLING at level 1, you probably also want to take GREATER MERCY at some point (I recommend level 5) and get BRACERS OF THE MERCIFUL KNIGHT as soon as you can.

Your average healing (with fey foundling) will be 5.5hp per die rolled. I recommend taking 2 levels of Paladin before each level of Oracle, this way you're at least covering the damage your allies take with your LoH. If you take my advice and take Greater Mercy at character level 5 then you can take a level of Oracle early.

Try something like PP O PP OO PP O...

2 years back when I ran the "rise of the runelords" I did suggest the fey foundling" to my players and all of them took the feat. the group had a life oracle as well and was an Aasimar (this was before they errata the Aasimar favored class bonus). between extra channel and quicken channel, most of the fights the group was virtually indestructible, at least until they are either split up, the oracle is in danger, the confusion spell/effects are in play, and/or they met a particular nasty boss.

basing on my understanding of your character concept, it's really about healing dot basing on the life link and then heavily augmented by specific magic items for LoHs and Channel Energy. it's an interesting concept, but I suspect it's very dicey against boss type heavy hitters.

here is one of the examples the group encountered in the rise of the runelords: the group had a crossbow specialist, I think it was an archetype called "bolter"? it was from one of the scrap books. in essence, a gunslinger with a crossbow. while the group was fully engaged in melee, the "bolter" PC got confused and during his turn, he rolled "attack nearest creature" and the oracle was the nearest, well, it wasn't pretty after that. The oracle has to keep himself alive as well as the rest of the group who are engaged in melee.

I am all for unique concepts, but I am always hoping my players play things that are workable and solid. It's always hard to try to balance the encounter vs. the actual PC fire power.

the channel energy doesn't stack right?

I will have to look into the VMC thing for Paladin/Oracle. Never really fully read up on the VMC rule other than the saves and BaBs.

I have found that in combat intensive campaigns, most of the healers are reduced to the EQ/WoW healers where 99% of their actions are performed related to healing. And this is especially true and necessary the higher the characters become.

One of my players who mostly played the healer role was telling me about the Oracle/Paladin healer combo. I thought I vaguely remember there was something that allows the 2 classes' healing abilities to stack. But I just couldn't where or what. I have been out of it for well over a year and half. And currently I was thinking about running the Curse of the Crimson Throne.

I have found the healing link the Oracle has is kind of like the damage sharing link from the "shield other" spell. But a bit more flexible. But just like the vulnerability of the "shield other" spell, if both the recipient and the user is in an AoE damage effect, the user will have a much higher probability of taking more damage. I guess the life link can be terminated as an immediate action. But without a stacking channel energy, I am afraid that the group may not have sufficient AoE healing afterward the group got hit by an AoE damage.

does anyone know any feats/archtype/prestige class that allows paladin and oracle levels/abilities to stack?

The summon guardian spirit feat allows the use of the summoning monster/nature's ally sorrel to call forth a more powerful version of an improved familiar.

All the major blessings for the alignments from the warpriest ability allows the character to call forth a single creature as if using a summon monster spell.

The question is, can these 2 items be combined? If I was a level 16 warpriest with an evil blessing with the summon feat in question, can I legally summon an imp that is upgraded to the level 7 summon monster spell?

The fighter archetype titan fighter allows the character to use 1 size larger weapons. With that in mind, can a medium size titan fighter use a bastard sword that is 2 size bigger assuming he has the exotic weapon proficiency bastard sword?

Could go with Cayden for the chivalry inquisition (cavalier mount) and rust monster summons.

I'm seeing the nessesary feats being:
Spell focus: conjuration, augment summoning, superior summons, combat reflexes

Then adding improved initiative, power attack, Summon Good/Neutral Monster and evolved summon monster.

I don't think you can take the Chivalry inquisition. Because at level 8 of the inquisition, you are supposed to be able to use judgment. Monster Tactician replaced the Judgment ability with monster summoning; therefore it invalid your choice to take something that uses judgment.

I think you are better off doing monster summoning and going melee to take full advantage of your teamwork feats.

But it's all depending on your personal play style.

I don't have Unchained yet. But can't Halfling with Swift as Shadow trait can always do this?

I think you are right!!!

so the halfling version of the rogue can try to pull it off at level 5.... with cover/concealment

and level 10 with the added hide in plain sight advance rogue talent, without the need for any cover/concealment...

with the new version of the rogue from pathfinder unchained, I have a combo that I have a question on:

level 12 rogue, with:
terrain mastery
minor magic: acid splash
hide in plain sight
stealthy sniper

skill unlock: stealth skill

with this setup, does it mean that if the rogue who is standing 10-30 feet away from the target, in the terrain where he has terrain mastery, without cover/concealment, under observation, can start stealth as a free action, snipe with acid splash using a standard action, possibly dealing sneak attack damage, and finish it off with another stealth check (using a move action) to hide again without any penalties? And the rogue can keep doing it until he is detected by some means?

and the target has no way of ever seeing the rogue unless the target can beat the rogue's 0 penalty stealth roll with a perception roll or with tremorsense?

as it is written, the spell: true seeing, see invisibility, and invisibility purge doesn't help spotting creatures in "hiding".

as it is written, blindsight/blindsense doesn't help spotting creatures in "hiding" (note, the rogue version of the hide in plain sight doesn't need cover/concealment to work)

It's not a teamwork feat, but there is a similar combat feat, Gang Up.

Plus: Doesn't require a companion, allies don't need to be adjacent to you or in the same square, allies don't need the feat for you to get the bonus

Minus: Need at least two other allies instead of one companion

Thank you

Is there a teamwork feat that let's you and your allies get the flanking condition on a target that works like the "pack flanking" feat?

As to the original point, though... The combination is hardly OP, considering it takes 4 feats to pull off (lose 2 feats for archetype, use two for the familiar upgrades). I can think of quite a few 4 feat combos that would be more powerful than this.

Leadership + anything...
Weapon Focus + TWF + Enforcer + Imroved Critical (grab a pair of Kukris and the blade of mercy trait) make everyone you hit shaken for the entire encounter, and a 30% of making them frightened

yes, it does cost 4 feats (assuming one does want to put the celestial template on the earth elemental. personally I would not). but the ability to let your celestial earth elemental wearing full plate and runs around with half of the teamwork feats is staggering.

let's take a level 10 eldritch guardian with the mauler earth elemental (assuming we over look the speak its own kind thing):

small earth elemental, 16 str, +6 NAC.
at 3rd level and every 2 levels beyond that, he gains a +1 str. so at level 10, that's +4 str. total out to 20 str.
also the 3rd level mauler ability let it grow to size medium, it states when in medium form, gain +2 str. in addition to any size increase modifier. Small to medium is +4 str. so now the earth elemental has 26 str.

Throw him a fullplate, base of 10, -2 for dex penalty, +9 armor, +6 NAC = 23 ac +5 for level adjustment = 28 ac

So you got an earth elemental with (possibly earth mastery), +10 bab, +8 str, +8 damage with 2 x slam, +6 power attack= 2 x slam +18 (1d8+14) or +19 (1d8+15) with earth mastery

depending on how you look at it, the player can argue the earth elemental can use martial weapons, and if that's true, the elemental can use whatever you are specialized and focused in. And if you got the teamwork trip concept going, as well as the teamwork opportunist going, it's a DPS machine.

just in case you haven't noticed, all that is on the familiar, we haven't even look at the fighter yet. the whole concept is like playing 2 characters that are almost identical twins

Mauler loses speak with kind, improved familiars lose speak with kind, thus unless Paizo says otherwise, you can't take Mauler on an improved familiar.

Thank you. That is what I needed.

One of my players asked me this:

Can an aasimar take a class that let's him have a familiar, then take the improve familiar feat to get an elemental, then take the racial feat celestial servant to make a celestial elemental out of it. And also make the elemental into a mauler archetype?

I have looked over all the books in question and don't seem to see that prevents the player from doing that.

I do believe that the player is considering doing that with the eldritch guardian fighter archetype. With an earth elemental, I can't help but think it might be to over powering.

Aside from the question at the top, anyone has any thoughts on this?

DEFENDING
Price +1 bonus; Aura moderate abjuration; CL 8th; Weight —
A defending weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the weapon's enhancement bonus to his AC as a bonus that stacks with all others. As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon's enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon, and the bonus to AC lasts until his next turn. This ability can only be placed on melee weapons.

METEOR HAMMER
Price 10 gp
Type exotic
This weapon consists of one or two spherical weights attached by a 10-foot chain. You whirl the weights and wrap them around an opponent's body. If you succeed at a trip attempt with a meteor hammer, you can drag your opponent 5 feet closer to you rather than knocking her prone. You may use this weapon in two different ways: In meteor mode you use it as a double weapon, while in fortress mode you cannot use it as a double weapon but gain reach and a +1 shield bonus to AC. Switching between these two modes is a free action decided at the start of your turn.

Because Meteor Hammer is a double weapon, that means both of its ends can be enchanted. At any given time when the PC is using it, regardless if he's attacking with the Defending end or not, can he use the Defending AC bonus? I know some of you argued that the Defending end has to be in use in order to activate the Defending ability, but because it's a double weapon, you can't really separate 1 end from the other. So when the PC attacks with the non-Defending end, can he use the Defending AC?

In the "Dwarves of Golarion" page 21, there is a new weapon:

Dwarven Dorn-Dergar: This exotic weapon is a 10-foot-long, heavy metal chain weighted at the end by a round ball of solid iron about
the size of a large fist. By adjusting the slack of the chain, the weapon can be used either with or without reach. Changing between using
it as a normal weapon and a reach weapon is a move action. Though fallen into disuse over the spanning centuries, the dorn-dergar is
still sometimes employed by dwarves who cling to the old ways.
Dwarves treat dorn-dergars as martial weapons.

From APG:

Racial Heritage
The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.
Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

Because of the last sentence from the Dwarven Dorn-Dergar, am I to assume that even though a human who doesn't have the "weapon familiarity" trait, the Racial Heritage feat allows him to treat the Dwarven Dorn-Derger as a martial weapon?

thank you all for the info

does anyone know if there is a version of the inquisitor that can channel energy?

thanks

I guess beyond vital strike, using improve/greater vital strike is better off with a greatsword?

using 18 str. as a base

dwarven thrower, $60k, melee: +7/1d8+7, range: +7/2d8+7, 3d8+7 vs. giants

greatsword +3 throwing & returning, $50k, melee: +7/2d6+9, range: +7/2d6+9 (two handed throw)

vital strike:
DwTh: melee: 2d8+7(av.16 damage), range: 3d8+7(20.5 damage), 4d8+7(25 damage) vs. giants

GrtSwd: melee: 4d6+9(23 damage), range: 4d6+9(23 damage)

improved vital strike:
DwTh: melee: 3d8+7(20.5 damage), range: 4d8+7(25 damage), 5d8+7(29.5 damage) vs. giants

GrtSwd: melee/range: 6d6+9(30 damage)

greater vital strike:
DwTh: melee: 4d8+7(25 damage), range: 5d8+7(29.5 damage), 6d8+7(34 damage) vs. giants

GrtSwd: melee/range: 8d6+9(37 damage)

I guess in the end it's the pick between having higher AC (warhammer and shield) or higher damage output (greatsword with 1.5 str/power attack bonus)...

does anyone know if there is a version of the inquisitor that can channel energy?

and if yes, please be kind enough to provide the source and if possible, the page number?

thanks

thanks guys, I guess the extra damage from the dwarven thrower isn't "base" damage, so no additional damage from the vital strike...

Dwarven Thrower:
"This weapon functions as a +2 warhammer in the hands of most users. Yet in the hands of a dwarf, the warhammer gains an additional +1 enhancement bonus (for a total enhancement bonus of +3) and gains the returning special ability. It can be hurled with a 30-foot range increment. When hurled, a dwarven thrower deals an extra 2d8 points of damage against creatures of the giant subtype or an extra 1d8 points of damage against any other target."

When using Vital Strike/Improved/Greater Vital Strike, do the extra damages "2d8 vs. Giants" and "1d8 vs. everyone else" gets to applied again?

i.e. dwarven fighter throwing a dwarven thrower using vital strike against a hill giant:
1. would he deal 4d8 damage?
or
2. would he deal 6d8 damage?

when the first version of the warpriest came out, my initial opinion was that it is a bit underwhelming. with this new version, I think the class is overwhelming. on the class' abilities:

1. free weapon focus: I have seen plenty of people complaining that the free weapon focus should be allowed to place on any weapon and not just the diety's favored weapon. (I know there are numerous pages on it, but I haven't seen many people pointed out on the view I am going to put forth) Priest, inquisitors, warpriest, paladins are by nature, very dedicated to their deity or whatever concept they follow. One would imagine that these people would gladly use their diety's favored weapons to advance their religion/church/order's cause. I understand that certain situations requires a different sorts of weapon. (i.e. priest of gorum using a blunt weapon against a skeleton instead of his usual slashing weapon) But overall, I think a man/woman of faith would prefer to use the diety's favored weapon in most cases. This is from role-play point of view. Also, if the church trained you to become a priest of some sort and trained you in weapon training in the process, wouldn't it make more sense that they gave you special training sessions to be good at using the diety's favored weapon? Hence the "free" weapon focus? Also please note, this is a "WARpriest", I think maybe some of the less aggressive deities shouldn't be having a group of them at all? There stands to reason that those deities don't have high yield damage weapons...(assassins aside)

2. sacred weapon's BaB=caster level: if I read the description right, the warpriest always has the full BaB=caster level for his sacred weapon. back in the 3.x days, there was a divine meta feat that allows a priest to make the spell "divine power" last full 24 hours, in essence making the priest almost as good as a fighter in melee combat. And there were endless uproars from people complaining about the priest class being overpowered. I think this ability is heading that direction. Especially when the class gets bonus feats every 3 levels as well as the ability to quicken spells to cast on himself + the weapon damage increase by level.

possible fix: let the full BaB take effect only during the period when the user activate the magical enhancements for the weapon

3. weapon damage increase by level: I think this has a feel of a specialty priest of irori like the old D&D days from forgotten realms. I think aside for deities that uses unarmed combat, this is a bad idea. Combined with the full BaB from the sacred weapon, spells, and the magic bonus from the sacred weapon, the warpriest can in theory out damage the base classes and making the base classes almost obsolete. examples like someone pointed out earlier with dual wielding daggers doing 2d6 or more damage each dagger, or Erastil warpriests doing more damage with their bows after level 9, or Irori warpriests hitting better than normal monks...

anyway, these are just my thoughts

thank you very much

Jotungrip has been errata'd to only function with weapons of appropriate size.

where can I find the errata? currently there is no errata out of the ultimate combat. and the pathfind society's listing on the Jotungrip is the same description as in the book itself

Well, they don't quite do the same thing. In addition to letting you wield an EB as a 1-h weapon, it also lets you attack with a Klar while retaining the shield bonus (you normally either make shield bash or get AC from it). Oversized Weapons only cuts down the attack roll penalty for using a "too big" weapon. It doesn't affect the handiness so a Large Earthbreaker without T&F is outright unwieldable even for a titan mauler. With T&F, a Large Earthbreaker is wielded as a large 1-h weapon which is considered a 2-h weapon for a medium character. Since it's not correctly sized for you, Jotungrip does not work on it so it's still a 2-h weapon. So you get your Large Earthbreaker (bigger damage dice) but you need to waste a feat on TWF (which you won't be using now) and WF(Klar). It's not that this won't work, it's that it's inefficient; you spend a lot for negligible benefit. If he wants to do something like this, he'd do better to go for the Thunderstriker Fighter arch which trains to use a 1-h and buckler, switching between 2-handing the weapon while removing the buckler penalty and, eventually, retaining shield AC, and TWF, being able to shield bash with the buckler.

ok, so basing on your description, his idea does work?

and if he continues to progress in the titan mauler class, starting at level 3 of the class and every 3 levels afterwards, he can reduce the oversize penalty by 1, so in theory, he can eventually reduce all the penalties?

i.e. level 3 TM with the overisize earthbreaker and normal size klar, instead of -4 (-2 TWF, -2 oversize) / -2 (-2 TWF) it would be -3/-2?

and if both the earthbreaker and klar are oversized, instead of -4 / -4 (he argued that because T&F lets him treat the klar as a light weapon, combined with the T&M, the oversize klar will also be treated as light weapon as well) it would be -3/-3?

and at level 6, it would be -2/-2? (no more oversize penalty)

I have a player that wants to play a Titan Mauler barbarian with the Thunder and Fang feat using an oversize earthbreaker and over size klar. I think that's illegal, but I can't put my hands on it. Can anyone care to point out the rules? And if he is right, what will be the attack penalty?

Thunder and Fang wrote:

Benefit: You can use an earth breaker as though it were a one-handed weapon. When using an earth breaker in one hand and a klar in your off hand, you retain the shield bonus your klar grants to your Armor Class even when you use it to attack. Treat your klar as a light weapon for the purposes of determining your two-weapon fighting penalty.

basing on that, the barbarian with the medium size earth breaker and klar is at -2/-2

once the barbarian/titan mauler reaches 2nd level which allows him to acquire the ability Jotungrib:

At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as onehanded when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.

If he uses the medium size earth breaker and klar, the penalties will still be -2/-2

If he uses the large size earth breaker and a medium klar, the penalties will be -4/-2?
(the weapon size rule states: "Weapon Size: Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.

A weapon's size category isn't the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon's size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.)

and the reason he can use a large earth breaker is because it's a 2h weapon but with a -2 penalty, coupled with Thunder and Fang which allows him to use it 1h

And if he uses a large earth breaker and a large klar, his penalties would be -4(-2 size, -2 TWF)/-4(-2 size, -2 TWF) or -6(-2 size, -4 TWF)/-4(-4 TWF because it's now an 1h weapon?)

can anyone point out the rules to refute him?

Check out this post.

Thank you very much

Hi, hope one of the Pathfinder designers can provide a clarification:

The cavalier mount says it starts out with a light armor proficiency and does not get share spells.

In the Animal Archive book, both the Bodyguard and Charger archetypes (especially the Charger archetype stating cavalier mounts) has its first ability replacing the share spell ability.

So my question is that how is a cavalier's animal companion/mount be able to take any of those archetypes? (The Charger archetype pretty much said cavalier mounts would have taken it)

basing on my experience from being on both sides of the DM screen, I personally dislike letting VS be combined with any other combo's. And I think Paizo did a good job at not allowing it to be combined with other combo's. Here are some of my reasons: (granted they don't happen all the time, but they happened enough times that they do create serious problems)

1. I don't know about everyone else, but basing from my experience of watching other players who has spring attack combo, most of the time, that player either got his character too far away from the healer, thus got himself cornered and get killed or cleared out the path so the enemy has an unobstructed line of path to the group's casters, be they arcane casters or healers. And in all my gaming experiences, killing the casters has always being the 1st priority, be it the players or the intelligent monsters. so if there is a melee enemy that's equal to or greater then the group who's charging the caster, power attacking, and VSing, I'm pretty sure it might very well be a dead PC at the end of that 6 seconds. The point I'm trying to make is that it's a high distraction for players to prevent them from doing effective teamwork. I'm not saying you can't do teamwork with it, but it takes a lot of thought and experiences involved. And I just don't see enough players with that kind of experiences and thoughtfulness.

2. from another post, someone was stating about the VS feat only good with large creatures. That's very much true. imagine if a stone giant (Rise of the Rune Lords) has spring attack/VS combo and combat reflexes and a decent AC, if he uses a greatsword, that will be a 6d6 VS attack + whatever bonus he has. He springs in, power attack and VS then springs out. Then what will the PCs going to do? move in and let him have a free AoO? Generally speaking, PCs have to conserve their resources for multiple encounters during the same day. Monsters don't, they can use all of their 1 shot items + any other spells they can all at once to face the PCs. That means, that spring attack VS from the stone giant isn't just his normal damage, he could be having heroism from a potion, keen from a potion, shield of faith from a potion and etc on. The point I'm trying to make is that everything is a 2 way street. Just because the PCs have it, so too will the monsters. And monsters don't have restrictions nor reservations while PCs do. If they don't, then it may very well be a very glorious battle for the 1st encounter, then a fast pace down hill slide after that.

I have always thought of the VS feat is something for the PCs to deal a bit more damage when they move up to engage the enemy. I certainly don't think it's underpowered.

I also don't think it's fighter specific. Look at a 2h weapon ranger with the "lead blade" spell, the ranger could get some use out of the VS feat. And for all those non-full BAB melee classes, VS is also something to help them get closer to the full BAB classes in terms of damage dealing. Example:
level 8 fighter vs. a level 8 inquisitor (not fighting each other, but fighting a creature of some sort)

figure both has 18 str, both uses a greatsword+2
fighter gets +17 to hit (8 BAB, 4 str, 1 weapon training, 1 wp.fc., 1 grt.wp.fc., +2 weapon) he'll do 2d6+20 (2 wp.sp., 1 wp.training, 6 str., 2 magic, 9 Pw.Attack). with furious focus, he'll have +17/+9

inquisitor gets +13 to hit (6 BAB, 4 str, 1 wp.fc., 2 magic), dealing 2d6+14 (6 str, 2 magic, 6 pw.attack), with furious focus, he'll have +13/+5

basing on these numbers, the inquisitor would probably want to just do 1 attack with his highest bonus and add VS in it to be almost as effective in damage output as the fighter

some would argue that at level 8, the inquisitor got judgement and bane ability, as well as spells. that's true. but I have often discovered that usually, there isn't much time to pre-cast all the buff spells before the battle (especially when most of the inquisitor spells are 1 minute/level). and if the player doesn't manage his judgements/bane/spells well, his character will not be at his best during mulitple encounters within the same day. (we found this out the hard way when the PCs were doing dungeon crawl, with no place to rest)

Check page 149 (in Chapter 6: Equipment), under "Strike, Unarmed". You'll find it there! :)

thank you, I did check p149 originally, but I was looking under "unarmed", not under "strike". so I thought you must have miss-typed it. (weapon finesse was in p139).

it has certainly cleared the issue.

you have being a great help.

Regarding Weapon Finesse: Unarmed strikes are always considered light weapons. Hence, they can be used with Weapon Finesse (Core Rulebook, pg. 149).

Being light weapons, unarmed strikes would follow the rules for a one-handed weapon under Power Attack (Core Rulebook, pg. 131), i.e. a -1 attack penalty for +2 damage. Is this what you were looking for? :)

thank you for the reply. I did read the descriptions for both feats. the problem is that neither feats mentioned anything about unarmed strike.

I wanted to know where in the rule books it stated: "Unarmed strikes are always considered light weapons", this was certainly not listed in the monk section, nor did it mentioned in the core rule book, page 182, under the unarmed attack section.

I have read all over, maybe I just missed it, but I can't seem to find any rules for improved unarmed strike regarding power attack and weapon finesse.

regarding power attack:
is 1 to 1, or 1 to 2 exchange rate?

regarding weapon finesse:
can improved unarmed strike be weapon finesseable?

and if anyone knows which book/books and the pages they are mentioned regarding the 2 subjects, please let me know

thank you

you are better off just taking the "vital strike" feat, it certainly will deal more damage. and is not range restricted.

as to your question, if you go by black/white mentality, focused shot is a different ability then deadly range, therefore its' range would not be increased even if they are similar concept

but ultimately, it's up to your DM to decide when a Paizo staff doesn't respond to you

and with the introduction of muskets from "ultimate combat", with the weapon doing 1d12 damage, VS is that much better combined with deadly aim.

apparently, firing a musket at any target within 40 ft is a touch attack.....

just for kicks, if the animal spent the point in linguistics, doesn't it mean the animal also can write in the selected language?

if that's true, doesn't that mean the animal using 1 of its appendages can write in the sand: "dude, you are making everything too complicated!!!!!"