roccojr's page

Redemption has been a theme in my Pathfinder campaign for some time. With that in mind, it shouldn't have been the surprise that it was that the PC's in my game have (at least for the time being) captured a drow and are giving her the chance to redeem herself. There's a lot to this but nothing really contributes information pertinent to my question.

I know that a particularly hateful elf can spontaneously drowify him/herself. Would a redeemed drow - one that truly becomes Good and displays that fact clearly by her deeds - eventually un-drow herself? Basically, would she become like a surface elf, lose the black skin, sight issues, special abilities, etc.?

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I honestly did look but I didn't see anything on this particular subject.

Is there a way to change the enchantments on an item? I mean pulling part of an enchantment out and replacing it.

A good example would be an Amulet of Mighty Fists. It holds up to +5 in enhancements and special abilities. Let's say you have one at +5. Can you 'pull out' a +1 and replace it with Frost?

I can figure out some house rules to allow it... I'd probably just let the player pay the cost for the +5 enchantment and replace the old bonus with a new one... but that's off the top of my head. And other items might be more difficult to manage.

I'm more curious about whether there is a rule in a book that says something about this.

My players are munchkins... except one. They accept this designation so its not an insult. I'm not even complaining because they try and they laugh when they catch each other exploiting or whatever. Generally these questions get answered with "find new players" so I have to head off any such advice by saying that I've GM'd for these guys for 12, 23, 24 and 17 years. One of them gave me a kidney. For real.

My issue is actually with the non-munchkin. Its not a complaint, again... its just an issue. Basically, he makes choices motivated by roleplaying and ultimately feels bad when he gets policed like the others who may be denied something or have the strictest interpretation of a rule enforced because they're munchkins and they know it. He's basically said that if he's going to get treated like a munchkin, he'll start acting like one. Yeah... 47 year old men are sometimes children. Well... mostly they're children but they hide it better.

So I told him I pretty much have two choices: Treat people on individual merit so that I can reward them based on what they do and not on what I expect from everyone else. In this case, I would have to face the poopstorm that happens when I say one person can have or do something that another can't. "I have the same resources as him. I have the same access as him. Why can he have a Pegasus mount and I can't?" etc.

Or, I can treat everyone consistently. "One guide to rule them all." Everyone knows what to expect because, like almost every other game, everyone's okaying on the same field with the same rules. If I disallowed something for someone, you don't need to ask about it. If I allowed it for someone, you can do it, too.

I've chosen the latter route... but I figured I'd be open to discussing it with others to gain more insight. In a game with very close friends, is this the path you'd choose?

I don't feel like I use GMPC's but I'm beginning to wonder...

I'll preface my explanation by saying we're playing Kingmaker so there are a TON of NPC's and that I've gotten a lot of compliments over the years for making my NPC's seem like real people so I do invest more than passing effort into them - particularly those the players seem to latch onto, for whatever reason.

Often, my players may try to fill a gap in their party configuration by retaining the services of an NPC. Sometimes, that might be a short term relationship ("Guys, Rith is a good rogue but far from a trap expert and we know this dungeon has some nasty traps. Let's see if we can find someone to deal with the traps for this.") but, throughout the years, there have been certain NPC's that they've come to accept as members of their party - sometimes even preferring their friendship to other PC's. I don't start them that way but once the players give an npc a recurring role, I will flesh them out, give them backgrounds with at least as much development as the pc's (because my players will inevitably try to learn more about them), eventually graduate them from a stat block to a character sheet (mostly so I might hand the sheet to someone else so they can control them during a combat scene), etc. I've always felt that the best analogy is that if the PC's are Kirk, Spock and McCoy, and most NPC's fall into the yoeman to redshirt category, then these special npc's are more like Sulu, Scotty, etc. To me, they are not gmpc's but I've seen the term bandied about to the extent that I wonder if my personal definition of what that means might be too narrow.

So my main question is: what separates an NPC from a GMPC?

Sub-questions are: Is a gmpc always, at the very least, a warning sign? Or is it just 'a thing'?

Spells like True Res can make it almost impossible to ensure defeated enemies stay defeated. Of course, by 'defeat', I mean 'dead' (aka no more, ceased to be, expired and gone to meet its maker, a stiff, bereft of life, resting in peace, nailed to the perch else he'd be pushing up the daisies, etc.)

I have no trouble when the PC's pool resources and raise a fallen ally so its not really my issue. In fact, they're the ones feeling a little frustrated. At 9th level, they certainly don't have the resources for a True Res. However, they believe that a dead doppelganger assassin they've just offed was part of an organization that could do it. They've logicked that a doppelganger assassin is probably worth 10x the cost of a True Res so they're sure it will happen.

IMO, even if the org gives the assassin a true res, the PC's are now at the level where they have access to True Seeing. They're not going to waste that assassin on the PC's. But, even with that in mind, that's just this specific case. I know there are various ways you can trap or destroy a soul. That's all cool but those options aren't really available at 9th level, either. So how do you deal with it?

Forgive my weak fu if this has been addressed... I am hindered by my iPad. I could find my question but could never find an answer.

Can a paladin dismiss a mount to gain a new one? I have a pkayer that might like to do this formthe sake of reconfiguring feats. My "sounds fun" sense says there shouldn't be a problem with it but if there are already rules or guidelines, I would rather not reinvent the wheel.

Thanks!

Part One
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I might be suffering from a case of Previous Edition Hangover but I seem to recall that a dead character knew the circumstances of a Resurrection attempt and could make a decision as to whether or not he was willing (thus benefiting from a Saving Throw)... so you didn't have Paladins finding themselves resurrected into some demonic torture devices only to become a plaything - sure to be the big item this Christmas in the Abyss...

I can't find references to this in the SRD or PFSRD though the effect of the target of the spell being willing or unwilling is detailed.

Am I missing it and its still there? Or is it removed?

Made a booboo last night. Misread the VV random encounter chart. Came up with a Greater Cyclops.... Dunno how but I thought it said 2. Thought the 8 th level pc's couldn't handle that so I dopped in a hunting party so that the PC's goal could be to rescue them rather than stay and fighht the monsters...

The PC's didn't take that bait and went in to kill the brutes as the encounter was taking place too close to a settlement for their comfort (I didn't consider that). Was gonna have the cyclopses (is that the right pluralization?) get spooked and run off but my players were so psyched about fighting 30 foot tall giants that I thought a round or two of combat before spooking them was ok.

Lo and behold, the pc's do well. Gtanted, I helped by playing up the cyclops' stupidity... Having one run after the ride-by, evil-smiting paladin letting the others gang up on the last cyclops, keeping opponents abay with their reach rather than stepping in to cut off disengagement actions, not really weighing the pc's as more dangerous than the hapless hunters (sucked for them but less attacks sent the pc's way). With all of that (and the nuke that is a smiting, lance-wielding, charging paladin on chaotic evil bad guys), they won!

The bard was near going out, druid was at -2, sorceress was quaking in her boots when the druid went down as there was nothing between her squishy self and a charging cyclops, paladin was badly hurt... The archer ranger was the only one that hadn't taken damage. It was 2:30am when the last cyclops fell and there was a rousing cheer in 3 different cities (as two of my players join us by skype teleconference).

Then they start the conspiracy theories... The Gyronna cult has been fairly prominent in my game. They think the cult brought the giant owlbear on their capitol... Now they think the cult also lured the cyclopses. My own plot-weaving wheels got to turning based on their paranoia... I see several weeks of cultist hunting plotline ahead of us.

PC's are psyched, I am inspired, campaign is made even better... All thanks to the random encounter chart and my silly mistake while reading it.

For good reasons, within my campaign, lines are currently being drawn and there may be an attempt to overthrow the ruler of the PC's kingdom or, at least, get him to abdicate. This gets interesting because the coup is being led by a PC (at least one, at this point). He has good reasons. One other PC hasn't declared a side but I think he would join the coup. The last PC seems to be waiting to see what causes the least damage to the kingdom, as a whole - but hopes it doesn't involve abdication or overthrowing the current ruler.

This isn't a PvP problem, at all. Its a well thought out and developed plot line created by the players. The ruler knew there was something about his PC what would upset the Paladin. The player incorporated it into his PC specifically for that reason, not to upset the Paladin's player but to create the plot (well.. maybe to get a little rise out of him but mostly for the story). Both players are ok with it even if their characters might not be (a benefit of my players having 20+ years of experience playing together).

So... has anyone had a civil war in their PC's kingdom?

Has anyone had more than one PC kingdom in their campaign?

The logistics behind the game, going forward, look really weird if they do split. The only path I might try to put them on is one where they become a confederated nation of some sort - the two act as one kingdom for most things but there are lines (political, moral, ethical, etc.) that each kingdom is free to develop individually.

I might be jumping the gun. They might work this out peacefully... but I'm still interested in being prepared.

tl;dr - How would you handle there being more than one PC ruled kingdom in your Kingmaker campaign?

I've started this message then aborted it about... oh... 20 times. Maybe THIS TIME, I will actually send it.

I'm interested in learning about the subplots GM's have added to their Kingmaker campaigns. I'll share a few that I've had going...

1. I had the luxury of starting Kingmaker after all 6 books were out. Reading ahead, I saw that Varnhold would be significant. The PC's included a bard who was quite the womanizer. Before the Aldori charter to explore the Stolen Lands was issued, we played a couple of sessions to get the PC's all used to one another (and get us used to Pathfinder... its our first campaign under these rules). During this preamble, I set the philandering bard up with a dangerous beauty who would, one day, be Varnhold's grand diplomat. In our campaign, the issuing Swordlord is Anton Aldori... an middle-aged man who is to marry a young woman that, of course, the bard was also involved with.

2. The young woman is far more dangerous than anyone let on. Seeing the Gyronna cult was active in the first book, I decided to make them a much more insidious threat to far more than just the fledgling kingdom. Seeing as two of the PC's were Orlovsky nobles, it didn't sit right to me that this would somehow be stabilizing on Rostland's southern border. In our campaign, this woman had manipulated Anton Aldori (who used his own pull with Jamandi Aldori) to perform the events that led to the issuing of the charter to form the PC's kingdom. While the idea was to stabilize the southern border, in reality, it was to irk Rostland. Both Varnhold and the PC's kingdom, after all, are ruled by Issian nobles (even if in name only)! Destabilizing some rinky-dink newcomer to the untamed frontier is child's play. In my campaign, the Gyronna cult wants nothing more than destabilizing Brevoy and plunging the entire nation into the chaos of a bloody civil war. The PC's will, at some point learn, that their kingdom is a major reason that the civil war in Brevoy begins. Having been contacted by their families in Issia and asked, repeatedly, which side they would choose, they've stated their desire for neutrality... but will soon figure out that they won't have the luxury of that choice.

3. One of the PC's is a Iomedaean paladin. He was supposed to serve at the Worldwound but was suddenly diverted to his homeland to take part in winning the charter to form the PC's kingdom. Mendev wants the pilgrim trail from the south protected. If the PC's are so stubborn that they're going to stay neutral in Brevoy's civil war, Mendev will certainly tell him that the war will have lasting repercussions at the Worldwound.

4. Little does this paladin also know that he carries a sword that has a small piece of a soul trapped in it. Long ago, the sword was used by a paladin at the Worldwound against a major demon. The exact details have been lost to time but the sword struck a succubus when it was intended to strike that demon. When the Paladin has the sword enchanted to +4 or better (including special abilities), the soul will awaken making his weapon intelligent and Holy.

5. If the PC's haven't figured it out by then, the sorceress currently serving as the Magister is a succubus. They liked her because she was harassing the Stag Lord while they were dealing with him. She's been looking for... the Paladin's sword (even if she doesn't know it yet). She knows something happened to her that made her, in game terms, change alignment (to CG). She's very afraid that this change may not be permanent (knowing that, if it isn't, what she becomes if the change is removed will not care to be Good). She could feel the paladin's soul pass through her at the battle that ultimately killed him. From that, she knows that some portion of the soul remained in the sword that struck the blow that caused her dramatic change. She doesn't know how or why that happened... and hopes that finding the sword may give her the answer she needs. Instinctively, she had come to the Stolen Lands. She does not recognize the sword because it had been broken and reforged... but in her presence, it has begin to awaken. The paladin has seen it shift colors but the change is so slow that he doesn't know the cause. It shifts slowly to red around the sorceress, green around fey, etc. A fey woman touched the sword and changed it to a lustrous green just recently.

6. The bard always said that he would stop philandering when he found true love. The player decided that his bard had fallen in love with the sorceress. She resisted for a while but he persisted... so love was finally starting to develop. By then, Restov had cut the PC's kingdom (and Varn's) off. Varnhold made contact with the PC's and was making some nice inroads toward a friendly relationship. Naturally, seeing the PC baron had no wife, Varn suggested a wedding between the bard and his Grand Diplomat. The bard told the paladin (his cousin, the other Orlovsky noble) who said he had to marry the Varnhold diplomat. As the ruler of a kingdom, it was his duty. The bard dumpstatted Wisdom and he is played very impressionable, particularly by his cousin. He agreed... and broke it off with the Sorceress. She thinks she's playing hurt... but she actually is. It won't come out until the day before the wedding, though. He'll have one last chance to choose love...

7. Speaking of choosing love... The party's stuffy Erastil worshiping
Marshal had been betrothed to marry an upstanding woman... the Treasurer's sister-in-law, in fact. He met a vibrant, beauty traveling in a fancy coach to the PC's kingdom. They had a wheel problem so the Marshal offered his assistance. We had this "Heart wants what it wants" moment. Long story short... a Pretty Woman plot developed as she was a prized dancer (well... in modern days, she'd be on a pole wearing clear heels) who worked for a Calistrian priest who was opening a brothel in the PC's capitol city. I was quite surprised when he chose her over his proper wife! Now, he's facing a lot of backlash as the populace, who'd come to respect him as a respectable man who upheld the virtues of Erastil, is pretty much saying he will marry the girl (whom everyone assumes is more than just a dancer...).

8. The Gyronna cult includes a doppleganger... who has impersonated the Treasurer (a druid worshiper of Erastil) visiting the brothel and hiring the services of a particular woman. Naturally, this was pretty bad... but her body just recently turned up. The doppleganger, having been in the druid's shape, left plenty of evidence behind (without making it look like he was trying to leave evidence behind... I dunno... fly casual) that the druid was responsible... right before Archerfeast.... where the baron (now duke) is supposed to announce the impending nuptials between himself and Varnhold's Grand Diplomat.

9. The PC rogue was made the Spy Master. The player has ALWAYS wanted to run a rogue's guild... going back to 1986!!!! Finally, this campaign would give him the chance. He's carefully balancing his responsibilities... but has found that there's another organization that seems to be forming simultaneously.

10. We aren't using hero points or plot twist cards... so I made Tig a "greater fairy" rather than the grig she was. Basically, she's a Tinkerbell sort of fairy that can grant wishes though she never revealed this until very recently. She'd land on the Paladin's shoulder and sigh... so smitten with him. It was pretty obvious she was in love. When a party member (none other than the Baron!) was reincarnated as a Bugbear, everyone was quite depressed. Tig finally revealed her ability and granted the Paladin three wishes. He used his first to revert the Baron back to his original form. *POOF*. He used his second, with her permission (after she'd mentioned that she can't grant herself wishes), to make her the appropriate size for them to be together! This is fairly recent... and somewhat of a surprise. I'm not sure how to have the most fun with it...

There are others... but I think I've passed the tl/dr threshold and its time to put my son to bed. I suppose I'll actually post this now. Thanks for reading and please share any subplots you've got going on.

My players are under WBL... by their own doing, really. But it isn't actually a problem... so far.

They drag several NPC's with them when they go adventuring. It certainly makes certain encounters go better than expected. For example, not long ago, I posted about how my players were going after a quest too soon and I thought I'd have a tpk on my hands. They had one death and had to pay up for a Raise Dead but that's better than a tpk by far.

I refuse to amp the treasure just because they brought an entourage with them. The image of some troll saying, "Guys, we thought we'd only be attacked by 4 but, as it turns out, there are 7. Bust out some more loot or they might find us rude hosts after they kill us." is sorta funny but the result is that the treasure ends up getting split far too many ways. Even with the PC's taking the primo items, they're still way under-funded... which only prompts them to take those NPC's with them even more!

The added NPC's provide me with some extra opportunities to roleplay so I'm really not minding.

Is this situation going to bite me/them on the heiney later on?

There are obvious cases where an effect is noticeable whether or not a save is successful (although, "Ooh, gee, I just saw a ball of fire erupt around me and I only took half damage. It was probably nothing..." would be funny). What about more subtle cases? Things like Suggestion or Charm Person, for example. Or is this just something each GM decides for his own game?

I'll admit my search ability is limited by my current location but I didn't see anything in the core rules (in th saving throws section), pfsrd or in my quick search of the message boards so if this is answered elsewhere, I'd appreciate a link.

Thanks!

I dunno how spoilerish this is so I erred on the side of caution.

I've noted in a previous thread that my players tend to bee-line toward "the plot" once they get wind of it. They've kinda tapered off on that behavior... but only kinda.

We're still somewhat early in RRR. They haven't done Candlemere, the lizards, etc. Being rather systematic in their approach to exploring the southern territories, they worked their way south and stumbled across the owlbear's lair but I managed to scare them off ("Huge??? Umm... no one's even brought us a rumor about this thing so its clearly not an immediate threat to our kingdom. Let's leave it alone.")

Of course, the trolls are another story. Whether or not they're an immediate threat, they're far more likely to become one than some animal living in its range. So they got a bug in their craws to go after the trolls. They're still 5th level.

Obviously, I wanted to scare them off from that... but I'm a firm believer in not just coming out and telling them not to do something. In fact, I've put mechanisms in place that make it so I shouldn't ever have to. For instance, I've allowed them to use their various Knowledge skills to do the MMO equivalent of /con in an attempt to reduce the chance of an accidental death. When they asked about trolls, I made sure to mention that a single troll would be a good challenge for the grouop but they should win (all PC's are 5th level, trolls are CR5, after all). However, I also mentioned that trolls with class levels are not uncommon so its hard to say for sure. Its like trying to /con a human. Maybe he's a chamber pot cleaner... maybe he's a Fighter. You can't quite generalize. This didn't scare them off.

The dice quickly tossed in their own bid to help me out. They generated a random encounter with SIX trolls. This was at night so the PC's would be caught camping meaning they'd likely be unarmored and out of position. That was already bad enough. I didn't want to kill them! So I reduced it to 4 (I know, I know). The battle was TOUGH. The Paladin did little more than run interference, absorbing attacks until the others could dish out enough damage that he finally got to his horse with a lance and did what a Paladin armed with a lance and Smite Evil can do.

They were all so badly hurt, I figured they would decide to turn away from dealing with Hargulka... but nope. They felt that if the trolls were ranging that far, they would become an issue for the kingdom (at the Stag Lord's fort) that much sooner than they originally suspected! (*&%@#$%&* it!!!).

I am hoping that, once they see the trolls aren't simply set up in some woodland camp, that they will back off. The ol' Wangering Giant hasn't done anything to dissuade them. He told them how the trolls basically sent him packing and they were too tough for him. Rather than see this for the hint it is, they convinced him to come with them (knowing he could be civilized with the right motivation, the Paladin is seeing passed the fact that the giant currently pings on his Detect Evil scope)!

Besides doing something contrived (like throwing in the signs of an obviously superior group that got their collective butts handed to them), the only thing I can hope for is their seeing these trolls are in a fortified location and backing off.

Has anyone had to deal with this or a similar situation? How'd it go? Should I be preparing for the TPK? Or is there some way out of it after they commit themselves to this course of action?

I can't see why the trolls would capture the PC's other than to eat them. Ransoming them back to their own kingdom would likely be out of the question, considering the motivation behind the trolls.

My group is in book 1 of the Kingmaker AP. They're still carrying around a "THERE'S THE ADVENTUERE!!! HEAD STRAIGHT THERE!!!" mentality.

Rather than map out hexes and deal with things as they come, perhaps with a slight distraction here or there, they're bee-lining every time a plot hook presents itself. I've thrown an obstacle at them from time to time to stop them from killing themselves.

So far, they've gotten a little lucky and, having a druid with a bear pet has made a major difference in every combat (really... its a major killing machine at 1st - 3rd levels). But they're not giving themselves the chance to run into these things on a normal course. Much of the map remains unexplored, as a result. (Don't worry about how they're getting from place to place... its all by the rules and I really don't want THAT to be the subject discussed).

As luck would have it, because they are winning and dealing with the major encounters, they are getting the xp they need to level up. I can't just toss in new encounters for them because the extra xp would mess things up as we go forward.

I'm trying to be as hands-off as I can and let the AP run like a true sandbox so, so far, I haven't done anything to put them on any sort of track. My main concern is that, by the time they stop running from plot hook to plot hook, there might not be much to entertain them as they do the exploration part of the adventure.

So... should I even care?

My apologies if this is addressed elsewhere... my Search Fu is hindered by my phone's interface...

Infiltrators (Ranger alternative from the APG) gain an Extraordinary Ability called Adaption. It allows the Infiltrator to take an ability from a provided list based on the Infiltrator's favored enemy. He can use the ability for 10 minutes per level. For instance, if the Infiltrator chooses an aberration as his favored enemy, then he can choose from amphibious, darkvision 60 ft., Iron Will, or natural armor +2.

My question is: what kind of action should it takes to activate the ability gained via Adaption?

Per the PRD, "Using an Extraordinary Ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are usually standard actions that cannot be disrupted, do not require concentration, and do not provoke attacks of opportunity."

The abilities granted by Adaption certainly SEEM like they would require actions to activate but I'm not entirely sure. I'd likely rule that they do but I'm looking for opinions either way... or a pointer at an official response, if one exists.

Thanks.

I started playing D&D in 1978... There was no guidance, no players with decades of experience willing to teach the ropes to the n00bs, no internet to research. Someone played one session with me (I straight rolled my character... a cleric because my high stat was Wisdom... at 13) and I fell in love with the game. I was 11 but turned 12 by the time summer came. That's when and me, my cousins and several friends would gather on my back porch most days (even when it rained... I had an awning) to play. I liked drawing maps so I was the default DM... and grew to love it. Back then, a campaign meant just playing the same characters through several dungeons. Plot? PLEASE! You opened a door, fought whatever was behind it (which might not necessarily fit through the door... no one asked how it got there.. or ate), dealt with any traps, gathered treasure and went on to the next door... tapping away with your 10' pole to open any pits in the hallway ahead (at the standard movement rate of 120' every 10 minutes!)

The following year, we had our brand new AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide and the fun started to grow. One day, my cousin (I guess he was 11 at the time) said he'd like to DM. I'd only gotten to play once the year previous (the game that got me interested in D&D enough that I did every chore I could to make $12 so I could go to Leisure World on 18th Avenue and buy my own basic set). He said I could bump that character up to everyone else's level. Everyone else got to bring their usual character through the dungeon he'd created.

He created... 'The Dragon Hotel'. It was a vacation spot for dragons, complete with pools, spas, tennis courts, paddle boats... everything your average dragon needs when he feels like getting away from defending his horde from the various would-be dragonslayers in the realm. The amenities would have been incomplete without including a vault where all the hordes could be secured.

So we raided the vault... which the dragons, in their infinite wisdom, had left guarded by a solitary rock baboon... that was scared off when he was sufficiently stared at. My cousin then proceeded to roll up the random treasures within the vault (like 20 dragon hordes?) and we went shopping.

That all took about an hour. Then I got to return to DM'ing for these characters... which was no issue at all at the time. Only looking back on it would I call it a mistake... at the time, we were young kids giggling through it all.

So what were your earliest years as a roleplaying gamer like?