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This is AMAZING and so beautifully done. Is there any chance you could explain it a little? Like, the references and such in it? I understand most of it, I think, but a few bits elude me.


Just thought I'd post an update, since you all were really helpful to me. :)

Unfortunately, that particular group has fallen apart. It wasn't the first time the guy who picked Investigator had kinda... not worked with the other members or did what he said he was going to, and also they just have lives (the cleric player and I are married, so it's easier to get us to do things!)

Oh. And then we moved halfway across the country.

But! I actually have a new group coming together, about five players this time, and took these notes in consideration with them too. They're really looking forward to enjoying being rabble rousers and the like. So, while maybe one group just wasn't suited, another is going to benefit anyway. Thanks for all your help!


To clarify the great points being brought up:

Cleric: yes, he is using a whip, though he intends to pick up probably a crossbow or some such. And he used up hid various spells keeping them alive - they expected a different kind of combat (not a combat, actually,) and so were playing some catch up.

Tengu: Using a rapier, he wants to go a Dazzling Display route, overall, though he's already decided his feat progression. He currently has arcane strike and weapon finesse. He's taking fencing grace at fourth level.

Investigator: the reason they're displeased isn't because they thought the INVESTIGATOR isn't being their powerhouse - I have a fairly hands-off policy, and let the players communicate amongst themselves what they wanna do (so, for instance, until yesterday, the tengu was convinced the Cleric was a hard, which was precisely what he wanted.) what they had heard from the player last was he was going to be a mesmerist, and then that he was changing, but that he would have "damage covered." So they didn't know what he was doing. I communicated my concerns to him, because I like the Investigator, but know it's not... ideal for being the main melee, and he assures me as well that he had it covered, and was absolutely thrilled and determined to see this character through. I communicated to the other members as well, but they felt the same about their characters, so I issued a general warning that they didn't have a strong (STR) melee combatant.

Generally, the group has a very good flow together, particularly myself, the Cleric player, and the tengu player. The kinda unspoken (though totally spoken) rule is that you pay attention to your party and balance because we tend to be so small a group. Whoever picks last has to help fill holes, essentially. The Investigator player picked both kinda an uneasy first, held his decision while he made one but gave the impression he was going meat shield, and then picked last as well, but picked this class instead. He was also under the impression that the Cleric would be a Bard, thus having face and skills well-covered, but was super concerned and wanted to be the face and skills guy himself because that's what they needed? I'm trying to pin down a time to talk to him about that, but, thigh a fantastic guy, he and I are not particularly friends and he isn't very forthcoming or responsive to me.

So, essentially, they assumed there'd be a meatshield, a dex-y Fightee, and a ranged Cleric.


So, one session into book one. My current party is a three man party consisting of a Hidden Priest halfling cleric of Calistria who focuses on healing, a Dragon Heir Scion tengu fighter who is a dex-based build (he's looking at a possible dip into rogue later,) and a Empiricist investigator human, who is also dex-based.

They were very lucky at the protest and only barely got hit, but the dogs at the livery nearly killed the Investigator. The other two members are also pretty upset because he assured them he was going to be the primary damage dealer, and he is not at all built to be. I HAVE already been talking to the whole group, but he seems fairly unconcerned overall, if slightly apologetic for the inconvenience.

That aside, I love to encourage RP and flavor thoughts, as two of the three have struggled in the past (aforementioned Investigator and the Cleric,) and I went with a lower stat array than usual (they work from a pool of eighteen dice and can arrange as they like four 3's, seven 4's, four 5's, and three 6's. We usually roll anywhere from four to NINE sixes.) I have also decided to use the background skills from Unchained, and because they all worked with cool backgrounds and such, I also granted a free level one feat that I called a background feat: it needed to tie into their backgrounds, much as their skills did, to reflect what they have learned up to this point.

I don't FEEL like I should necessarily do anything to assist them further, logically, but I also worry that they'll die, to be honest, as are they. The Cleric currently can deal no damage (though he intends to get a weapon that will very shortly, like, this coming session,) and the Investigator has been knocked unconscious four times so far, and uses a cane sword for flavor. Should I help more? Give more? I don't know what to do. Did the party as a whole or parts make poor decisions? Or am I worrying for nothing?


So, general consensus seems to be that Investigator is a good choice here.

In that case, any suggestions on how to go about it? Archetype or no? I like the flavor of the Gravedigger, but I'm not thrilled with the occult powers? Just never used them before.

I'm looking at being our face/skills/maybe support?

Oh, and ability scores (in no particular order): 18, 18, 16, 16, 13, 12.

Thanks so much for your input thus far!


Hey all. My group is looking at playing through Carrion Crown in the near-ish future, and I get to be a player again! And I came across the Investigator, which I can honestly say I'd never looked at before? I play bards and witches, that support-face niche is my JAM. But it looks really cool!

But I have no idea how to run one, build one, what have you. I don't even know if the investigator is a good class? In general or for CC? And for a small party?

Proposed party is as follows:
-maybe a sorcerer
-a human vigilante for sure (faceless something? Totally unfamiliar with that class as well, gotta say, but Husbando is psyched to play it.)
-possibly a fourth guy, but he's no guarantee. I just know he tends toward evil alignment.

So yeah. I'm looking at a tiefling (that is totally set, not changing race) investigator? But I know we could probably use some holy help or something too... I just don't want to play range.

Any thoughts?


Alright. I have read through this thread and see. Some good ideas (well, - ton of amazing ones,) but not I. Reference to precisely what I'm looking for?

PCs have fought their way through a good portion so far, just finished up with the piscodaemon and find Xamanthe. But now they intend to retreat to rest. Not just, like, inside the tower, but leave it entirely.

V knows about them, obviously, and will send a soul eater along, but what should I do for their return back INTO the tower? Does it repopulate? I'm thinking the piscodaemon will be back, it almost killed our gunslinger, but I feel like V, seeing what the PCs have done, would gird his loins here, so to speak, and up tower defenses? Any thoughts?


So, absolutely loving this idea, and I've toyed with it a bit. And, with my players, and with how things played out, I currently have Rigg, Vesket, and the Spirit of Visshak all allied (and alive) with Hargulka. Which is the only fight we have left. My PCs don't want to provoke him, as they're unsure of his intentions, and I'm considering having him provoke them with some gruesome or otherwise outrageous message. But I'm a bit worried about the difficulty. Party of four (aasimar veneticus witch 6, dwarven warpriest 6, hobgoblin samurai 6, and human viking 6.) I'd also considered, with all that's gone on, whether or not any of them (Vesket particularly, but maybe Rigg) would have another level yet.

Does this, combined with everything else they'll face, seem like it would be too much? It's a boss fight, I WANT it to be tough, but we also do story levels rather than by-experience levels, so I could give everybody level 7, but then my viking has leadership and intends to grab a dedicated healer, probably a cleric of Shelyn... Just curious on thoughts here.


I couldn't find quiiiite what I had in mind, and I'm struggling with an idea I love.

In our campaign, there are three PCs: the human rogue 5 (looking at noble scion at level 7.) His father was Noleski and Natala's brother, but he was dis dishonored, disowned, wiped from the books (so much as they could,) and eventually murdered. His mother is from House Orlovsky, and his sister married into House Garess (this happened before the bad bits, and all of that occurred before the disappearance of House Rogarvia.) He is fairly good at playing the political and social game in theory, and when he talks to the other PCs, but he feels like he deserves more and has a LOT of pride... I'll come back to that bit.

PC two is the aasimar (witch 5.) She was a schoolmate of his, but from MUCH humbler background (she essentially got a scholarship.) She's the big diplomancer, and does her best to clean up when he stumbles. She has, up to recently, thought he would be an excellent ruler, if maybe in need of a little refining.

PC the third is the dwarf (forgepriest 5.) Crafters wanna craft. He is a fairly chill, all things considered, he follows his lawful good alignment. He has little interest in the politics rapidly catching up to them, but he will do his part to ensure the safety, stability, and prosperity of their settlement.

Behind the scenes, I have a struggle going on between Noleski and Natala. They have always been close, and what their brother did wounded them deeply. Noleski chose this sort of exile as his punishment, but that wasn't enough for Natala, who was the one who ensured that tragedy occurred. A terrible accident, to be sure, which brought the remaining siblings that much closer. However, Noleski has, in recent years, become more independent, and is ready to be married and marry his sister off as well (while fairly sly and a bully, he is competent as King and does well, and wants the best for a sister that he genuinely cares for.) Natala does not agree.

She has also been watching (human rogue) for years, deciding whether he is useful or not. She helped orchestrate things to make she he was on this little adventure, and intends to either use him as a pawn, or ensure tragedy strikes again.

As we have played, it has come to the portion tonight that a council of various individuals involved (this includes heads of houses, the Surtova rulers, and a few other NPCs) gathered and nominated who they would like to see as ruler (essentially, who they recognize - there is a LONG story as to why this is taking place this way, but the end result is this.) They chose (human rogue.) BUT. He had to renounce ties with the sword lords, recognize House Surtova as rightful rulers (for now anyway) of Brevoy, and renounce his last name (which was Surtova as well.)

He agreed, threw what equated to an eloquent tantrum and peed in their Cheerios, and left.

Finally, to the question part:

A PC has asked (OOC for a while) if there could be a spy from Natala, who has watched her nephew during book one. I would love this, as I would like to have a fairly significant betrayal, but I'm really not sure who would make the best choice? They have a LOT of people though, honestly. Oleg and Svetlana, Kesten Garess (with three additional guard and a new wife,) Happs the now former bandit (along with at least five others, one of whom now has a wife and young child,) Akiros, J'hod... There are lots of options. But who would you think might make the best spy? And a fairly capable one to not be discovered yet? Or is there some other way she could be watching them?